5 Sep
2007
5 Sep
'07
4:23 p.m.
All,
spotted in the San Antonio Goodwill Computerworks:
A Mac 512k, but with a minor difference. On the back side,
above where the power switch normally is and far away from the rest
of the connectors, is a 25-pin D connector reminscent of the Mac
"SCSI" connectors on Mac Plus and other machines. I did not
disassemble or power up the machine (no KB or Mouse in evidence), so
I don't know what it is.
Don't know whether they'll pak/n/ship. They were asking $5
for the machine. No connection. Let me know (off list for quicker
response) if you want me to go back for it and work on boxes and
postage for you.
Forgotten what the correct designation for those D-connectors
is, and wanted to get this out fast in case anyone wants it.
--
- Mark, 210-379-4635
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Asteroids headed toward planets
inhabited by beings that don't have
technology adequate to stop them:
Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.
5 Sep
5 Sep
4:32 p.m.
At 10:23 AM -0500 9/5/07, Mark Tapley wrote:
All,
spotted in the San Antonio Goodwill Computerworks:
A Mac 512k, but with a minor difference. On the back side,
above where the power switch normally is and far away from the rest
of the connectors, is a 25-pin D connector reminscent of the Mac
"SCSI" connectors on Mac Plus and other machines. I did not
disassemble or power up the machine (no KB or Mouse in evidence), so
I don't know what it is.
Might very well be a SCSI connector. My Mac 512k has SCSI added.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:47 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
[...] a 25-pin D connector reminscent of the Mac
"SCSI" connectors on
Mac Plus and other machines. [...]
Forgotten what the correct designation for those
D-connectors is, and
wanted to get this out fast in case anyone wants it.
The 25-pin size - the one used for the MAC SCSI you refer to, the one
called for by the mechanical portion of the RS-232 spec, the one used
for peecee parallel ports - is DB.
Using pin count for that same pin spacing, the table is DA=15, DB=25,
DC=39 (I think), DD=50 (three rows), DE=9. The DE shell is also used
in a 15-pin variant ("VGA"), but the pins are spaced substantially
closer than in the DE-9. DA is probably best known for peecee joystick
connectors, but it also got used for AUI Ethernet back in the 10base5
days, before even 10base2, much less 10baseT. DC doesn't get used much
in my experience; I think I have a few SBus cards that use it for the
fat end of their octopus cables. DD was used by Sun for SCSI back in
the Sun-2 and Sun-3 era, and also got used for IPI disks. DE is
probably best known for peecee serial ports and "VGA" video (a lot of
people don't realize the shell size is the same for those two), but
I've seen it used for other things, such as Sun-3 monochrome video.
I'm sure each size has plenty of other uses I know nothing about, too.
I don't know why they are out of order. I speculate that someone
designed DA through DD, never expecting D-shell to get used for
anything under 15 pins, then had to tack on the 9-pin size later.
(Arguably they should have called it D@, but that would probably have
been too geeky. :)
There exist D-shell connectors of other sizes, like the NeXT "black"
hardware video connector (which held something like 19 pins). I don't
know whether they have names in the DA..DE series; I suspect they have
no standard names because they're not standard sizes.
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5:40 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On 5 Sep 2007 at 11:47, der Mouse wrote:
DC doesn't get used much in my experience; I think
I have a few SBus
cards that use it for the fat end of their octopus cables.
37-pin External floppy drive connectors on PC and PS/2. Some SCSI
cards (e.g. the Iomega Bernoulli PC version) also used them. There's
also a 68-pin 3-row "high-density" version used on Overland and Chi
Pertec 9-track adapters. There's also a "thicker" 50-pin 3-row (not
HD) connector used for the external connector for some PC-based QIC-
02 and QIC-36 controllers (Wangtek, I think).
There were also non-standard sizes, such as the 19-pin D connector
used for Atari ST ACSI connections.
Cheers,
Chuck
6 Sep
6 Sep
2:28 a.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On Sep 5, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
37-pin External floppy drive connectors on PC and
PS/2. Some SCSI
cards (e.g. the Iomega Bernoulli PC version) also used them. There's
also a 68-pin 3-row "high-density" version used on Overland and Chi
Pertec 9-track adapters.
Nit, it has 62 pins. It's a DC62.
There's also a "thicker" 50-pin 3-row
(not HD) connector used for
the external connector for some PC-based QIC-02 and QIC-36
controllers (Wangtek, I think).
That's the D-size. The DD50. There are also DD78 and DD100 connectors.
There were also non-standard sizes, such as the 19-pin
D connector
used for Atari ST ACSI connections.
I've heard them described as DF19 (NeXT monitor, Macintosh floppy)
and DG23 (Amiga floppy, Amiga RGB), though this is not part of the
standard.
Jules mentioned alternate pin designations too. Besides the "W" for
coaxial "pins", there are also "high current" pins, physically the
same size as the coaxial ones but with a single conductor, and
perhaps others besides.
Gee, look what I found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
ok
bear
5 Sep
5 Sep
5:53 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On 9/5/07, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote:
the Sun-2 and Sun-3 era, and also got used for IPI
disks. DE is
probably best known for peecee serial ports and "VGA" video (a lot of
How about CGA/EGA video on the PC, or Atari/CBM game controller ports?
Or is that a different shell size?
And there's this non-standard serial connector on the Grid Compass:
http://flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/522484668/in/set-72157600033400926/
6:11 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
der Mouse wrote:
Using pin count for that same pin spacing, the table
is DA=15, DB=25,
DC=39 (I think), DD=50 (three rows), DE=9. The DE shell is also used
in a 15-pin variant ("VGA"), but the pins are spaced substantially
closer than in the DE-9. DA is probably best known for peecee joystick
connectors, but it also got used for AUI Ethernet back in the 10base5
days, before even 10base2, much less 10baseT.
I tend to think of the shell sizes in terms of approximate finger widths as
it's easier to relate to people compared to the semi-random Dx ordering :-)
Some NCD X Terminals had a DA26 connector - 3 rows of pins in a 'A'-sized
(two-finger ;-) shell. I think some Cisco gear used to use the same connector.
Plus of course there are some weird designs out there in D-shells with a
variety of pin sizes - e.g. 13W3 connectors for Sun/SGI video, and ISTR HP
using something similar but with a smaller (DA?) shell size. (Also, weren't
some Apollo token ring connectors something like a 5W2 on an DE-sized shell?)
There's some other weird stuff about too which uses D-type shells with round
pins, but a much smaller form-factor (shell and pin diameters). I was going to
give an e.g. but although I can picture such a line of machines in my head, my
brain's refusing to put a name to them right now! I'm not sure if they ever
got a D-type designation...
cheers
Jules
7:48 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
Plus of course there are some weird designs out there
in D-shells
with a variety of pin sizes - e.g. 13W3 connectors for Sun/SGI video,
and ISTR HP using something similar but with a smaller (DA?) shell
size.
I have a machine somewhere that uses 3W3 - basically, 13W3 without the
ten individual pins, and the shell shrunk correspondingly, to about DA
size (it's at home and I'm not, so I can't be precise about the shell
size).
(Also, weren't some Apollo token ring connectors
something like a 5W2
on an DE-sized shell?)
Could be; I don't know either way, though.
There's some other weird stuff about too which
uses D-type shells
with round pins, but a much smaller form-factor (shell and pin
diameters).
I have a few SBus SCSI/Ethernet cards for which the Ethernet is a funny
connector with a shell that looks about like a DA scaled by 1/2, and
the female connector just has hollow metal cylinders for the pins,
without the plastic fill that most female D-shell connectors have.
(Also, it's possible that pin sex and shell sex are reversed with
respect to one another, as compared to full-size D-shell connectors -
again, they're at home and I'm not.)
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
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X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:06 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
der Mouse wrote:
I can verify that a 3w3 is actually a DA3w3.
The only 5w2 I know of is the DC5w2, which is quite a bit bigger than a
DE-shell. I don't know how one would go about cramming five mini-coax
connectors into a DE-shell.
There was also AAUI at one time, no?
Peace... Sridhar
Plus of course
there are some weird designs out there in D-shells
with a variety of pin sizes - e.g. 13W3 connectors for Sun/SGI video,
and ISTR HP using something similar but with a smaller (DA?) shell
size.
I have a machine somewhere that uses 3W3 - basically, 13W3 without the
ten individual pins, and the shell shrunk correspondingly, to about DA
size (it's at home and I'm not, so I can't be precise about the shell
size). (Also,
weren't some Apollo token ring connectors something like a 5W2
on an DE-sized shell?)
Could be; I don't know either way, though. There's
some other weird stuff about too which uses D-type shells
with round pins, but a much smaller form-factor (shell and pin
diameters).
I have a few SBus SCSI/Ethernet cards for which the Ethernet is a funny
connector with a shell that looks about like a DA scaled by 1/2, and
the female connector just has hollow metal cylinders for the pins,
without the plastic fill that most female D-shell connectors have.
(Also, it's possible that pin sex and shell sex are reversed with
respect to one another, as compared to full-size D-shell connectors -
again, they're at home and I'm not.)
8:18 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
The only 5w2 I know of is the DC5w2, which is quite a
bit bigger than a
DE-shell. I don't know how one would go about cramming five mini-coax
connectors into a DE-shell.
Crap. I just realized I had it backwards. *never mind*
Peace... Sridhar
6 Sep
6 Sep
2:39 a.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On Sep 5, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
The only 5w2 I know of is the DC5w2, which is quite a bit bigger
than a DE-shell. I don't know how one would go about cramming five
mini-coax connectors into a DE-shell.
ATR is a DA7W2. There are only two coaxial connectors in an nW2. (@;
ok
bear
(Also, weren't some Apollo token ring connectors
something like a
5W2
on an DE-sized shell?)
Could be; I don't know either way, though. 
5 Sep
5 Sep
8:21 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On 9/5/07, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote:
I have a machine somewhere that uses 3W3 - basically,
13W3 without the
ten individual pins, and the shell shrunk correspondingly, to about DA
size (it's at home and I'm not, so I can't be precise about the shell
size).
Sounds like the back of one of my DEC MIPS workstations... a DA shell
with enough room for 3 large coax pins.
Not sure how to call it.
-ethan
8:23 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 9/5/07, der Mouse <mouse at
rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote:
DA3w3.
Peace... Sridhar
I have a machine somewhere that uses 3W3 -
basically, 13W3 without the
ten individual pins, and the shell shrunk correspondingly, to about DA
size (it's at home and I'm not, so I can't be precise about the shell
size).
Sounds like the back of one of my DEC MIPS workstations... a DA shell
with enough room for 3 large coax pins.
Not sure how to call it.
8:57 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On 9/5/07, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote:
I have a machine somewhere that uses 3W3 - basically,
13W3 without the
ten individual pins, and the shell shrunk correspondingly, to about DA
size (it's at home and I'm not, so I can't be precise about the shell
size).
I believe the color card on my Vaxstation 3100 uses this connector.
I'd always called it "0W3."
8:06 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25 connector]
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:11:04 +0100
Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Also, weren't some Apollo token ring connectors
something like a 5W2
on an DE-sized shell?
IIRC the ATR used 7W2 in a DA shell.
Some IBM graphic cards use 3W3 in a DA shell.
Intergraph used some wired D shell like connectors with more then three
coax connectors and lots of normal pins.
I have SMD cables on my PDP-11/73 with D shell like connectors and high
density pins. I think the big one is DC size with 68 pins and the smaler
one is DA size with 26 pins.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
11:23 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with
Plus of course there are some weird designs out there
in D-shells with a
variety of pin sizes - e.g. 13W3 connectors for Sun/SGI video, and ISTR HP
using something similar but with a smaller (DA?) shell size. (Also, weren't
DEC 9and maybe HP) put 3 coax connectors in a DA-size shell (RGB video,
sync-on-green).
some Apollo token ring connectors something like a 5W2
on an DE-sized shell?)
I thought that was a DA shell too, but I've not seen one for years.
-tony
11:18 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?)-25
The 25-pin size - the one used for the MAC SCSI you
refer to, the one
called for by the mechanical portion of the RS-232 spec, the one used
for peecee parallel ports - is DB.
Using pin count for that same pin spacing, the table is DA=15, DB=25,
DC=39 (I think), DD=50 (three rows), DE=9. The DE shell is also used
DC37, actually
in a 15-pin variant ("VGA"), but the pins
are spaced substantially
closer than in the DE-9. DA is probably best known for peecee joystick
In the high-density range, the standard sizes seem to be (in increasing
shell size) :
DE15
DA26
DB44
DC62
DD78
connectors, but it also got used for AUI Ethernet back
in the 10base5
days, before even 10base2, much less 10baseT. DC doesn't get used much
in my experience; I think I have a few SBus cards that use it for the
The common uses (on various machines) are :
DE9 : MDA, CGA monitors, PC/AT serial ports, some DEC printer (serial)
ports, Commodore/Atari Joysticks
DA15 : PC joystick, BBC micro analogue port (joystick :-)), AUI ethernet
DB25 : Real RS232 ports, PC parallel ports, Mac SCSI port, IEC625
interface (IEEE-488 on a DB25 connector!)
DC37 : PC external floppy interface. Some QIC tape interfaces. Canon 'VDO'
direct laser printer engine interface.
DD50 : Sun (and PERQ 3A) SCSI interface
DE15 : PC VGA (and higher) video
DA26 : Not seen it
DB44 : Not seen that either
DC62 : PC expansion unit
DD78 : Some HP multple seiral ports
Of course all these connectors were used for many other things besides
(my ACW has a DB25 keyboard socket, a DB25 user port and a DC37 '1MHz
bus'. I've wired all my HP 8-bit parallel interfaces for the 98x0 and
9815 to DC37 sockets, and so on). and they're used on things other than
computers.
[...]
I don't know why they are out of order. I
speculate that someone
designed DA through DD, never expecting D-shell to get used for
anything under 15 pins, then had to tack on the 9-pin size later.
(Arguably they should have called it D@, but that would probably have
been too geeky. :)
I bleieve that's correct. Also '@' is 'letter 0' only in ascii :-)
There exist D-shell connectors of other sizes, like the NeXT "black"
hardware video connector (which held something like 19 pins). I don't
know whether they have names in the DA..DE series; I suspect they have
no standard names because they're not standard sizes.
I've heard them called the 'DF19' and 'DG23' (Amiga video connector?)
but
I don't know how official that is. Probsbly not at all!
I've heard that HP used 3 pin and 5 pin D-shaped seiral connectors on
some of their older machines. Were these DE-size shells or something else?
-tony
6 Sep
6 Sep
6:13 a.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?) -25 connector]
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 11:47, der Mouse wrote:
I'm thinking 37...
[...] a 25-pin
D connector reminscent of the Mac "SCSI" connectors on
Mac Plus and other machines. [...]
Forgotten what the correct designation for those D-connectors is, and
wanted to get this out fast in case anyone wants it.
The 25-pin size - the one used for the MAC SCSI you refer to, the one
called for by the mechanical portion of the RS-232 spec, the one used
for peecee parallel ports - is DB.
Using pin count for that same pin spacing, the table is DA=15, DB=25,
DC=39 (I think), DD=50 (three rows), DE=9. The DE shell is also used
in a 15-pin variant ("VGA"), but the pins are spaced substantially
closer than in the DE-9. DA is probably best known for peecee joystick
connectors, but it also got used for AUI Ethernet back in the 10base5
days, before even 10base2, much less 10baseT. DC doesn't get used much
in my experience; I think I have a few SBus cards that use it for the
fat end of their octopus cables.
Didn't the original peecee's floppy adapter card have one of those on the
metal bracket to connect external floppy drives with? I had an external IBM
floppy drive a while back, pulled the drive out of the box to use for
something, and now I have this box with a little bitty switching power
supply in it and a short cable with one of those connectors on the end of
it...
DD was used by Sun for SCSI back in the Sun-2 and
Sun-3 era, and also got
used for IPI disks. DE is probably best known for peecee serial ports
and "VGA" video (a lot of people don't realize the shell size is the same
for those two), but I've seen it used for other things, such as Sun-3
monochrome video. I'm sure each size has plenty of other uses I know nothing
about, too.
Joystick ports on lots and lots of things, the c64, vic-20, Yamaha CX5,
Atari 2600 (?) game consoles, etc.
I don't know why they are out of order. I
speculate that someone
designed DA through DD, never expecting D-shell to get used for
anything under 15 pins, then had to tack on the 9-pin size later.
(Arguably they should have called it D@, but that would probably have
been too geeky. :)
:-)
There exist D-shell connectors of other sizes, like
the NeXT "black"
hardware video connector (which held something like 19 pins). I don't
know whether they have names in the DA..DE series; I suspect they have
no standard names because they're not standard sizes.
Didn't the Atari ST machines use something odd of the sort? I'm thinking it
had 23 pins but I've never actually seen one of those or worked with one.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
7:14 a.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?) -25 connector]
On 6 Sep 2007 at 1:13, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Didn't the Atari ST machines use something odd of
the sort? I'm thinking it
had 23 pins but I've never actually seen one of those or worked with one.
19 actually. I've still got a couple of the male versions (as well
as a hood or two). ACSI connector--a somewhat perverted
implementation of SCSI. I never understood why Atari had to go out
and re-invent it.
Anyone have one of the "gutless" Atari laser printers? Did it
connect to the ACSI port or to the printer port--or somewhere else?
Cheers,
Chuck
10:04 p.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?) -25connector]
Hi,
Anyone have one of the "gutless" Atari laser
printers? Did
it connect to the ACSI port or to the printer port--or somewhere
else?
I never had one back in the day, but my understanding was that it connected
to the ACSI port.
TTFN - Pete.
7 Sep
7 Sep
11:23 a.m.
New subject: D-shell sizes [was Re: Slightly rare Mac 512k with D(?) -25 connector]
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Anyone have one of the "gutless" Atari laser
printers? Did it
connect to the ACSI port or to the printer port--or somewhere else?
Hmm, Witchy has one, but I don't think he's currently subscribed after the
list software got upset with him following an ISP change :-)
Far as I know his re-subscription request is still pending (it's been that way
for a couple of weeks - but then we know Jay's busy!)
Hopefully he'll be back soon, although in the meantime you could always prod
him via binarydinosaurs.
6340
days inactive
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days old
21 comments
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
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