I think somebody may have mentioned this book before, but I just picked up a copy yesterday. Cool! It was written in 1968, and has a picture of a bunch of bent paperclips on the cover. What the? It goes into details of building all the elements of a computer, even core memory, out of paperclips! Find this book! Buy it! Has anybody built the stuff from the book? -- Doug

Max Eskin wrote: The problem with this book (if it's the one I saw several years ago) is that the computer doesn't interpret instructions. You have to do that yourself. The book is very interesting, though, and the computer is pretty realistic. With some extra logic I think it could be made into a full computer. BTW, this is a topic I'm pretty interested in. :) -- Derek

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Max Eskin wrote: No blast furnace required. I'll try to scan a few pages this week. There are 7 chapters, and the middle 5 each describe an important element and end in one or more construction details. Here's what's need to build a core memory: Chassis: 1 composition board 3 supports (scrap wood) 6 wood screws Display circuit: 44 paper clips 42 machine screws 42 nuts 4 lamps 1 tin strip 3.5' hookup wire 6' insulated hookup wire adhesive tape Special tools: tin snips drill -- Doug

ALCOSSER; PHILLIPS; WOLK: HOW TO BUILD A WORKING DIGITAL COMPUTER ; HAYDEN; 1969; TRADE PAPER; 171 PPG; -- adavie(a)mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ?

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: I take this trenchant opportunity to remind the Assembled Faithful that www.abebooks.com is, IMHO a rilly bitch'n place to score Olde Computer Books. I have just today gotten my copy of "Digital Techniques for Computation and Control, 1958... full of killer pix of cool old iron, which will go to swell the many megabytes of scans I'm slowly accumulating to be indexed and put up on my WebPage... some day soon. I mean it. Cheers John

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: Aha, that was you! Yes, the competition is fierce even in the non-auction space, but at ABE, the prize goes to the swift, not just the rich. -- Doug

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, John Lawson wrote: No neeners required. ABE still has several of them, but a couple of the nice condition low-priced copies I first requested were already taken.... -- Doug

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Doug wrote: It's an old filksong, I know I've got it on a tape entitled "The World's Funniest Computer Songs". When I get home tonight I'll see about posting lyrics/order info. The tape has some dynamite stuff. "Uncle Ernie's Used Computer Babbage's Birthday Bargain Bash" is especially on-topic for this list. Let's see, one of my favorites has a transcription of its lyrics around somewhere, hang on, ... Ah. Threes, revision 1.1 Lyrics by Duane Elms Music by Leslie Fish Deep in engineering, down where mortals seldom go A manager and customer come looking for a show; They pass, amused, among us and they sign in on the log They've come to see our pony and they've come to see our dog. Three things to be wary of: A new kid in his prime, A man that knows the answers, and code that runs first time. Summoned from our cubicles, to conference room we go We bring our dog and pony, 'cause we know they'll want a show, Watching while we enter, with a shifty, restless eye The customer sits waiting in his pin-striped suit and tie. Three things never trust in: That's the vendor's final bill The promises your boss makes and the customer's good will. The pony kicks his heels up as the doggie does his trick, And hams it up with vigor as we lay it on real thick; The customer just watches as we do this song and dance Then reaches for his briefcase, only giving us a glance. Three things see no end: a loop with exit code done wrong, A semaphore untested, and the change that comes along. From briefcase then there comes a list of things we must revise; And all but four within the room are taken by surprise. And all but four are thinking of their last job with remorse, The customer, the manager, the doggie and the horse. Three things hold no secrets: files that somehow hit the net The boss's secretary, and the third thing ... I forget. First, twenty-one new features that we somehow must add in Then, thirty-seven changes show up, much to our chagrin; And this thing's just inadequate, and that thing's just plain wrong And, by the way, your schedule plan's about three months too long. Three things it is better far that only you should know: How much you're paid, the schedule pad, and what is just for show. The customer proceeds to go through each change, line by line Excruciating detail which no logic can divine; And when it ends, there's only four not sitting there agog The customer, the manager, the pony and the dog. Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your deck, The one who does the backup and the one who signs your check. Now we are contract software types who spend our days and nights Imbedded in the system, down with all the bits and bytes; And none but us can tell full well the damage done today, It's what they do not know for which they're gonna have to pay. Three things are most perilous: connectors that corrode Unproven algorithms and self-modifying code. The manager and customer are quick to leave this bunch They take the dog and pony, and they all go out to lunch; Now how will we avenge ourselves on those who raise our ire? Write code that self-destructs the day the warranties expire. Three things trust above all else: Your knowledge of your craft, That someone turns a profit, and that you will get the shaft. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

At 06:23 AM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: Oh, sure, come back when you need some help! Careful, by alerting the list members to the presence of these computers, you may upset the bidding process. :-) I do wish we had that latitude-longitude-based database of willing computer rescue helpers. Also, we'd benefit from collective wisdom in scheduling the slow-boat trucking services for cross-country deliveries like this. There are dozens of alternatives to UPS that specialize in big-heavy-slow. - John

Hi, ClassicCmp. I haven't re-subscribed yet, but I hope to as soon as my life reaches a quiescent state (I'm done breaking eggs, and I'm now working on the omelette). I check Kevan's web archive once in a while, so I got a chance to catch the "first pc" thread. Of course, my idea of crowning a machine with the title "the first pc" was intended to be a catalyst for discussion, and to help dispel the popular myth that the Altair was the first pc, or that it started the hobbyist movement, or any such nonsense. However, I think Simon is the best candidate for that title. Yes, there were other simple machines built before Simon, such as Stibitz's relay calculator, the first version of which was built on his kitchen table. But I don't consider such one-offs to be viable contenders. Simon was built in 1950 by Edmund Berkeley for the express purpose of educating the masses and with the express hopes of fostering a computer hobbyist movement. So, who was this Berkeley guy? He was one of the lesser known players in the start of the computer revolution. He was a mathematician who worked on the Harvard Mark II, he worked with Eckert and Mauchly to help define the Univac, he founded the ACM, he started the first computer magazine, etc. How did Simon differ from other simple relay machines, like the first Stibitiz calculators? It was more general purpose, it was portable, and it was popularized in the press. 13 articles on Simon appeared in Radio-Electronics in 1950 and 1951. It was the subject of a cover story in Scientific American. It was covered in two of Berkeley's books. It was given television coverage and appeared in such mainstream magazines as Life. Berkeley was the first computer evangelist -- the first to articulate the idea of a personal computer, and the first to build one. Of course, there were others, such as Vanevar Bush, who described futuristic visions, but Berkeley dedicated a good part of his life to making computers accessible to mere mortals. I haven't stumbled upon a machine yet more deserving of "the first pc" title than Simon, and given the depth of Berkeley's work, I don't expect to. But Simon was just the first milestone towards the goal of accessible personal computers, and it doesn't diminish the importance of the PDP-8, the Mark-8, or even the lowly IBM PC. OK, I'll crawl back under my rock now. -- Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blinkenlights Archaeological Institute Featuring... http://www.blinkenlights.com/ Nearly Forgotten Personal Computers

Is this the one? : Alcosser, Edward. How to build a working digital computer [by] Edward Alcosser, James P. Phillips [and] Allen M. Wolk. New York, Hayden Book Co. [1967]. UCI Sci Lib TK7888.3 .A44 Bar UCSB Main Lib TK7888.3 .A44 Sci-Eng CSL State Lib TK7888.3 .A44 General Coll For those with convenient ILL (interlibrary loan), UCI is University of California Irvine, UCSB is University of California Santa Barbara, and CSL is California State Library.

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: Oh, yeah. Did you tell me about this at TRW? Ah, that must be what Derek meant. I didn't really look at the drum section, so I assumed it was magnetic. Shortly after reading this book, I went to pick up my mail. As fate would have it, a friend from NY sent me a computer brochure. It was for an educational computer from 1969. I swear it has the same attributes as the computer described in this book, but in a much more polished form. I'll scan a pic this week. It's really an amazing coincidence: same drum, same simulated core, simular looking ALU, .... -- Doug

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Derek Peschel wrote: Then it'd be a Simon clone :-) The goal of this machine's design appears to be that it can be built with stuff laying around the house (paperclips, tin can for the drum, etc.). There were earlier machines, like the Minivac 601, which used motorized rotary switches and relays to push the "automation" envelope. I like the manual paperclip approach, but I agree that a fully automated paperclip computer would be way cool. Maybe it could powered by a pull-string gyroscope or a wind-up clock.... -- Doug

At 07:47 PM 3/3/99 +0000, Tony wrote: You should get a subscription to Strickly IC then. They deal with nothing but internal combustion engine. (Ever seen a 1/4 scale Pratt & Whitney Radial?) They have some great articles. Joe

Since we were on the subject of old computer books, I decided to stop by the thrift store and dig a little deeper in their book shelves. I found a book with the title "Switching Circuits And Logical Design" by Samuel H. Caldwell. It's a first edition copyrighted 1958 and is in *perfect* condition. Apparently Dr. Caldwell was a major contributor to the development of early computer systems at MIT. The book is approx 700 pages and is extremely _heavy_ reading. DUH! Most of the book deals with relay logic and theoretical mathematics although there is some discussion of tubes (valves) and solid state devices. I also picked up a copy of: AMSTRAD - Personal computer Word Processor - Users Guide-CP/M Logo & Word Processor Manual PCW8256/8512 This is the spiral bound owners manual for that computer. It's about 200 pages and in very good condition. Since I don't own an AMSTRAD, I'd be willing to part with it. I'll give it to the first person that asks for it for the cost of postage. Please don't ask unless you really need it 8^) I also got 3 other off topic books and spent a grand total of $1.85 Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

Hi Doug and all, At 09:55 PM 3/2/99 -0500, Doug wrote: I could have. I think I mentioned it about last July when Tony mentioned the book Automatic Digital Computers, by M.V. Wilkes. I am looking for any other books mentioned then and up to now. My list is getting longer. Please scan it. If it could be automated with relays as the "automatic" switches, it must look similar to Simon, as you mentioned. -Dave

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: Oh yes. I have this book. It was one of the first computer books I ever added to my collection way back in 1987. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

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On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: That means the (alleged) VT100 emulator has to also have switches (software switches) to pack in an emulation of specific VT100 ROM versions -- some "real" VT100s are also poor emulators when you stretch the envelope set by another VT100 revision level. And let's not think about the "VT100 mode" of a VT320. Actually, I think most of the software VT100 emulators are based on the behavior of DEC's VT100 emulation in other DEC terminals. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

Eric Smith wrote: Exactly why isn't it VGA-compatible? I thought that certain things are true of the 34010: - flexible memory architecture - many operations done in software (not hardware) - some hardware (video RAM, shift registers and other parts to actually produce a monitor signal) external to the 34010 It's certainly possible to emulate the Hercules, CGA, and MDA. Is there some lack of configuration registers, or some internal timing constraint, that makes emuilating the VGA impossible? -- Derek

Eric Smith wrote: I should have used a different phrase. Isn't it possible to have the 34010 interpret the data in (data) memory in various ways, based on the code you put in (code) memory? That's what I meant by "flexible". Again, I was thinking of the reconfigurability of the 34010. Ah. Well, there goes my idea of havng an "uber-graphics board" that does everything... As for emulating the older cards, I have a _Micro Cornucopia_ issue which describes a board that promises exactly that. There's some external logic, but I doubt there are any ASICs. Hmph. I should have guessed. You might have already figured out that I'm always thinking of the design of my Perfect Computer (tm). The problem is: The IBM PC has software, the Perfect Computer doesn't. I'd either have to write all the software myself, port it from the IBM -- but the point was to *avoid* all the cruftiness of the IBM -- or write a PC emulator. Ick. Of course I could get the software from somewhere else. Also, I fear that any design I could come up with will never be as fast as any current PowerPC or Intel systems. Those hacks do serve a purpose! Unfortunately, PC software is successful *in spite of* the nature of the PC, not *because* of it. :( What are the chances of successfully emulating EGA? -- Derek

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On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: Never heard of them; what are they like and what do they run on? --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

POS has got to be the single most overused OS name! DEC used it for the Professionals, and some European company used it for a Alternative to the Amiga OS that they were working on a couple years ago. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

Oh, come on. There's got to be TONS more OSs with "DOS" in their names. -- Derek

Roger Merchberger wrote: Yes, you're right. Zane has a perfectly good point. I was just struck by the irony that he may be talking about 4-5 OSs while I can come up with dozens. Actually, I do kow of a few "just plain DOS" systems: DOS for the IBM System/360, DOS for the Apple ][, DOS for the Atari 8-bit machines, DOS for the PDP-11. You might be able to come up with more DOS's than POS's if you tried hard enough. -- Derek

On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 05:58:12PM -0800, Derek Peschel wrote: Several arcade machines use TMS34010. Thus, MAME emulates it. <URL:http://www.davesclassics.com/pics/mamewip/34010.html> -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru