30 Apr
2007
30 Apr
'07
4:55 p.m.
It's still commercial software, and it's still
possible to buy
licenses.
I assume you're looking at mentec.com, that hasn't been the place to
look for several years.
Zane
mentec-inc used to be the place for the commercial stuff, but it seems
to be no longer around.
My question, however, was regarding the non-commercial PDP-11 stuff. At
this point, I'm not interested in the commercial stuff- it just isn't
worth it. (before you grab the torches and pitchforks I don't find
Windows "worth it" enough to walk across campus and pick up the
all-but-free disks either). I was looking into emulators (never touched
the VAX's little brother or O/S SW yet), and came across some disk
images with the following licensing:
"Whereas, MENTEC owns the rights to the following PDP-11 Operating
Systems and associated layered products (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E
V9.6 or prior, RSX-11M V4.3 or prior, RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior)
(SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY) and is prepared to grant a non-exclusive license
to use such
SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY for personal, non-commercial purposes;"
and
"SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY shall mean the binary versions of the PDP-11
Operating Systems (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E V9.6 or prior, RSX-11M
V4.3 or prior, RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior), and associated utilities
and layered products that run on PDP-11 computers.
"
but somewhat cryptically also
"EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation
that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11
programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems.
2 LICENSE GRANT
MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free
license under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy the
SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in
conjunction with the EMULATOR."
So, in short, is this only valid for emulators in which DEC or it's
successors in interest (HP?) own the copyright, or is it only valid for
systems where DEC or (...) hold RTU licenses for a PDP-11 emulator on?
If the prior, what is the connection to SIMH? If it is valid for
currently obtainable emulators and (as it seems to at face value)
include RSX-11, why no RSX-11 images? I suppose RSTS/E is the easy way
out, (provided licensing is good), but RSX-11 has the advantages of
some commonality with VMS (DCL).
30 Apr
30 Apr
8:25 p.m.
At 4:55 PM -0700 4/30/07, Scott Quinn wrote:
but somewhat cryptically also
"EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation
that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11
programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems.
2 LICENSE GRANT
MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free
license under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy
the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in
conjunction with the EMULATOR."
So, in short, is this only valid for emulators in which DEC or it's
successors in interest (HP?) own the copyright, or is it only valid
for systems where DEC or (...) hold RTU licenses for a PDP-11
emulator on? If the prior, what is the connection to SIMH? If it is
valid for currently obtainable emulators and (as it seems to at face
value) include RSX-11, why no RSX-11 images? I suppose RSTS/E is the
easy way out, (provided licensing is good), but RSX-11 has the
advantages of some commonality with VMS (DCL).
Bob Supnik has stated that SIMH is still covered by this license, he
was a VP with DEC at the time he arranged for it. Furthermore all
indications from Mentec in the past have been that this is true.
Based on the inquiries I made about a month ago nothing has changed
from the Hobbyist point of view.
At least one version of RSX-11M has been available for use under SIMH
in the past.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
2 May
2 May
7:23 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 4:55 PM -0700 4/30/07, Scott Quinn wrote:
Jerome Fine replies:
Since my information is ONLY in respect of RT-11, how
it applies to RSX-11 is not known. However, whenever the
license for PDP-11 operating systems mentions RSX-11
(and a specific version at that, including all prior
versions), V05.03 of RT-11 and all prior versions of
RT-11 are also mentioned. Thus by inference, what applies
to RT-11 may also apply to RSX-11 as well.
What is VERY different about RSX-11 and RT-11 is that
V05.03 of RT-11 (specifically the binary distribution)
has been available via download from a number of sites
for many years along with at least one site which also
includes all prior versions (or at least as many different
versions as could reasonably be found and verified to
likely be as close as possible to the actual DEC release)
of RT-11. I can't remember exactly any more, but at least
10 prior versions of RT-11 (prior to V05.03 from 1985)
are available. There were also 11 later versions of RT-11
includIng:
V05.04
V05.04A
V05.04B
v05.04C
V05.04D
V05.04E
V05.04F
V05.04G
V05.05
V05.06
V05.07
On the other hand, it was initially VERY difficult, almost
impossible, to obtain a copy of the allowed RSX-11 distribution
and even at present this situation continues.
Since there has, to my knowledge, been continuous access
to V05.03 of RT-11 and the prior versions for over 5 years
ever since Megan Gentry specifically made V05.03 available
as a single downloadable image file, it seems extremely
likely that Mentec has accepted that SIMH is totally
acceptable as the DEC owned emulator even if there has been
no official written confirmation of that status by Mentec.
At least one acceptable version of RSTS/E also seems to
be available, but I have no details.
If you wish to know the details of the link for the file
to be downloaded for the RT-11 versions:
http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/RT11DV10.ISO.zip
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
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If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
but somewhat cryptically also
"EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation
that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11
programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems.
2 LICENSE GRANT
MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free
license under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy
the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in
conjunction with the EMULATOR."
So, in short, is this only valid for emulators in which DEC or it's
successors in interest (HP?) own the copyright, or is it only valid
for systems where DEC or (...) hold RTU licenses for a PDP-11
emulator on? If the prior, what is the connection to SIMH? If it is
valid for currently obtainable emulators and (as it seems to at face
value) include RSX-11, why no RSX-11 images? I suppose RSTS/E is the
easy way out, (provided licensing is good), but RSX-11 has the
advantages of some commonality with VMS (DCL).
Bob Supnik has stated that SIMH is still covered by this license, he
was a VP with DEC at the time he arranged for it. Furthermore all
indications from Mentec in the past have been that this is true. Based
on the inquiries I made about a month ago nothing has changed from the
Hobbyist point of view.
At least one version of RSX-11M has been available for use under SIMH
in the past.
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