21 Jun
2006
21 Jun
'06
12:21 p.m.
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct lines set up on the serial
console on my 11/34. the correct signals are coming out according to my
tester box. However, I cannot respond to the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which says if I hit CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777. According to
the manual there is something wrong with the M9301 or the switches are set
wrong, and all the switches are ON. Do you guys know of anything else that
could be the case? I do get different results whether or not I hook up the
faston tabs going to the front panel or not - I get 177777 if I don't hook
them up at address 173024.
Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Julian
21 Jun
21 Jun
2:16 p.m.
Julian Wolfe wrote:
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct
lines set up on the serial
console on my 11/34. the correct signals are coming out according to my
tester box. However, I cannot respond to the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which says if I hit CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777. According to
the manual there is something wrong with the M9301 or the switches are set
wrong, and all the switches are ON. Do you guys know of anything else that
could be the case? I do get different results whether or not I hook up the
faston tabs going to the front panel or not - I get 177777 if I don't hook
them up at address 173024.
Is is very straightforward to check the basic functionality of your console
interface from the front panel:
1) EXAM the console TXCSR at 777564; it should be 000200 indicating ready
2) DEP a character into the TXBUF at 777566; it should appear on your terminal
3) repeat step 2 until you are convinced the TX serial link is OK
1) EXAM the console RXCSR at 777560; it should be 000000 after init
(it may be 000200 if you sent some data from your terminal; in this
case EXAM 777562 to clear it out, or INIT the box from the front panel)
2) send ONE character from your terminal
3) EXAM RXCSR at 777560; it should be 000200 indicating data available
4) EXAM RXBUF at 777562; the low byte should be the character you sent
the upper byte should be ZERO for no errors; if nonzero then:
15=ERROR, 14=OVERRUN, 13=FRAMING, 12=PARITY error
if 15 is set (summary error) then one or more of 14:12 will be set
5) repeat steps 2-4 until you are convinced the RX serial link is OK
If all the above works your UNIBUS is (probably) OK and your console works.
If either of the above fails you have some debugging to do.
In bringing up some of my DL11-W serial cards I have found the logic works
but the DIP switch packs are notoriously unreliable. You may set the switch
rocker one way, but the internal switch contact is stuck, and not following
the rocker (you may think you configured the board switches, but not really).
In my experience with DL11-Ws I the first thing I now do is beep-out each DIP
switch in the OFF/ON state to make sure it is operating correctly (shorted or
open). If not, cycle the switch open/closed repeatedly until it works; I have
found most switches start to work again somewhere between 10 and 25 cycles.
Don North
2:23 p.m.
What's your terminal and cable look like.
It should be null-modem rs232.
The DEC 11/34 uses Xon/Xoff flow control -- not dtr/dsr or cts/rts so those
need to be looped back on the pc if you're using
one as a vt100.
Transmit should go to receive and receive to transmit. A straight through
cable won't do it.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct lines set up on the
serial
console on my 11/34. the correct signals are coming out according to my
tester box. However, I cannot respond to the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which says if I hit CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777. According to
the manual there is something wrong with the M9301 or the switches are set
wrong, and all the switches are ON. Do you guys know of anything else
that
could be the case? I do get different results whether or not I hook up
the
faston tabs going to the front panel or not - I get 177777 if I don't hook
them up at address 173024.
Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Julian
3:13 p.m.
Bill wrote....
It should be null-modem rs232.
I can think of
about six different variations of a "null-modem" cable off
the top of my head. Unfortunately, that's a often too generalized term.
The DEC 11/34 uses Xon/Xoff flow control -- not
dtr/dsr or cts/rts so
those
need to be looped back on the pc if you're using
one as a vt100.
looping back - well, depeneds on the software. Some software
isn't driving
dtr/dsr or cts/rts, some allows it to be selectable, etc.
Transmit should go to receive and receive to transmit.
A straight through
cable won't do it.
More descript term would be a 3-wire crossover cable.
Jay
4:50 p.m.
It's null modem RS232. The wiring of the 25 pin connector is the same as
BC05C (I copied it verbatim from the DL11-W manual).
I have it hooked to an actual DEC VT220.
Also, I can't figure out what you mean by no dtr/dsr and rts/cts. The
DL11-W has those signals.
The settings on the VT220 are 9600, Receive=Transmit, 8 data bits, no
parity, 1 stop bit.
I've also tried this with *just* ground, send and receive lines (crossed
over) - same result.
Those settings are reflected on the DL11-W.
No clue what to do at this point.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Serial console problems on 11/34
What's your terminal and cable look like.
It should be null-modem rs232.
The DEC 11/34 uses Xon/Xoff flow control -- not dtr/dsr or
cts/rts so those need to be looped back on the pc if you're
using one as a vt100.
Transmit should go to receive and receive to transmit. A
straight through cable won't do it.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct lines set
up on the
serial console on my 11/34. the correct signals
are coming out
according to my tester box. However, I cannot respond to
the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which
says if I hit
CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777.
According to the manual there is something wrong with the
M9301 or the
switches are set wrong, and all the switches are
ON. Do
you guys know
of anything else that could be the case? I do
get
different results
whether or not I hook up the faston tabs going to
the front
panel or
not - I get 177777 if I don't hook them up at
address 173024.
Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Julian
6:46 p.m.
I thought the DL11-W had no modem controll... will have to take a look at my
DEC maintenance stuff in the basement.
I didn't realize you had a real VT220 in there... OK.
Just for grins -- did you try 7-NONE and 7 Even, Mark or Space parity... or
did you check the board setup for the parity and speed.
Most sites didn't run 8-None-1 back then...
Many consoles were set down in the 1200 baud range as well -- since 9600 was
just about the speed limit of a VT100/220.
Do you get any prompt?
Been a long time since my Field Service days. Gonna try to find my 11/34
pocket card and dl11 jumper/switch info.
Haven't done an 11/34a since 1986 or so.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
It's null modem RS232. The wiring of the 25 pin connector is the same as
BC05C (I copied it verbatim from the DL11-W manual).
I have it hooked to an actual DEC VT220.
Also, I can't figure out what you mean by no dtr/dsr and rts/cts. The
DL11-W has those signals.
The settings on the VT220 are 9600, Receive=Transmit, 8 data bits, no
parity, 1 stop bit.
I've also tried this with *just* ground, send and receive lines (crossed
over) - same result.
Those settings are reflected on the DL11-W.
No clue what to do at this point.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Serial console problems on 11/34
What's your terminal and cable look like.
It should be null-modem rs232.
The DEC 11/34 uses Xon/Xoff flow control -- not dtr/dsr or
cts/rts so those need to be looped back on the pc if you're
using one as a vt100.
Transmit should go to receive and receive to transmit. A
straight through cable won't do it.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct lines set
up on the
serial console on my 11/34. the correct signals
are coming out
according to my tester box. However, I cannot respond to
the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which
says if I hit
CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777.
According to the manual there is something wrong with the
M9301 or the
switches are set wrong, and all the switches are
ON. Do
you guys know
of anything else that could be the case? I do
get
different results
whether or not I hook up the faston tabs going to
the front
panel or
not - I get 177777 if I don't hook them up at
address 173024.
Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Julian
8:25 p.m.
I get the following prompt:
XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the register values)
$
It's just that I can't respond to it. "L" for example is not echoed on
the
terminal when I press a key.
I'm going to try Don's tests tonight.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:47 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Serial console problems on 11/34
I thought the DL11-W had no modem controll... will have to
take a look at my DEC maintenance stuff in the basement.
I didn't realize you had a real VT220 in there... OK.
Just for grins -- did you try 7-NONE and 7 Even, Mark or
Space parity... or did you check the board setup for the
parity and speed.
Most sites didn't run 8-None-1 back then...
Many consoles were set down in the 1200 baud range as well --
since 9600 was just about the speed limit of a VT100/220.
Do you get any prompt?
Been a long time since my Field Service days. Gonna try to
find my 11/34 pocket card and dl11 jumper/switch info.
Haven't done an 11/34a since 1986 or so.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
It's null modem RS232. The wiring of the 25 pin connector
is the same
as BC05C (I copied it verbatim from the DL11-W
manual).
I have it hooked to an actual DEC VT220.
Also, I can't figure out what you mean by no dtr/dsr and
rts/cts. The
DL11-W has those signals.
The settings on the VT220 are 9600, Receive=Transmit, 8
data bits, no
parity, 1 stop bit.
I've also tried this with *just* ground, send and receive lines
(crossed
over) - same result.
Those settings are reflected on the DL11-W.
No clue what to do at this point.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:24 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Serial console problems on 11/34
>
> What's your terminal and cable look like.
> It should be null-modem rs232.
>
> The DEC 11/34 uses Xon/Xoff flow control -- not dtr/dsr
or cts/rts
> so those need to be looped back on the pc if
you're using
one as a
> vt100.
>
> Transmit should go to receive and receive to transmit. A
straight
through
cable won't do it.
Bill
On 6/21/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I have, what I now know for a fact is the correct lines set
up on the
serial console on my 11/34. the correct signals
are coming out
according to my tester box. However, I cannot respond to
the prompt.
I started with the diagnostic on the front panel, which
says if I hit
CLR
173024 LAD EXA I should get 173000. I don't. I get 127777.
According to the manual there is something wrong with the
M9301 or the
switches are set wrong, and all the switches are
ON. Do
you guys know
of anything else that could be the case? I do
get
different results
whether or not I hook up the faston tabs going to
the front
panel or
not - I get 177777 if I don't hook them up at
address 173024.
Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Julian
10:39 p.m.
Julian Wolfe wrote:
I get the following prompt:
XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the register values)
$
It's just that I can't respond to it. "L" for example is not echoed on
the
terminal when I press a key.
I'm going to try Don's tests tonight.
On your 40p BERG to 25p RS232 adapter cable, make sure you bridge across
pins E-M of the 40p cable to connect the RS232 rcvr to the UART input.
If you don't, your 11/34 will be able to speak (as you show above) but
it will be deaf to any characters you send it.
Don
22 Jun
22 Jun
1:06 a.m.
New subject: M7800 crystal (was: RE: Serial console problems on 11/34)
I added that jump and it fixed the problem. Thanks, Don!
Also, once it worked, I typed in "L 173024", then "E<space>" and
got "173024
173000" like I'm supposed to, so I guess I just wasn't using the front panel
properly.
Now to get the M7800 card working so I can do TU58 stuff :)
Anyone know what speed crystal the "Northern Eng NE-6A" is on an M7800?
(i.e. does it do 9600 baud? ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don North [mailto:ak6dn at mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:39 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: fireflyst at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Serial console problems on 11/34
Julian Wolfe wrote:
I get the following prompt:
XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the register values)
$
It's just that I can't respond to it. "L" for example is not echoed on
the
terminal when I press a key.
I'm going to try Don's tests tonight.
On your 40p BERG to 25p RS232 adapter cable, make sure you bridge across
pins E-M of the 40p cable to connect the RS232 rcvr to the UART input.
If you don't, your 11/34 will be able to speak (as you show above) but
it will be deaf to any characters you send it.
Don
3:40 a.m.
New subject: M7800 crystal (was: RE: Serial console problems on 11/34)
On 6/22/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I added that jump and it fixed the problem. Thanks,
Don!
For those that are keeping score at home, there's a similar jump
needed for the KL8E serial board. The board has both EIA and 20mA
drivers and receivers. It transmits out of both all the time, and you
use the jump to pick which interface standard to listen to.
Now to get the M7800 card working so I can do TU58
stuff :)
Anyone know what speed crystal the "Northern Eng NE-6A" is on an M7800?
(i.e. does it do 9600 baud? ;)
Boy... that's a tricky one... do you have a frequency counter or an
oscilloscope? You could determine the base frequency with either
tool.
-ethan
5:57 a.m.
New subject: M7800 crystal (was: RE: Serial console problems on 11/34)
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at
gmail.com>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: M7800 crystal (was: RE: Serial console problems on 11/34)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:40:35 +1200
On 6/22/06, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
I seem to remember that there are some options for the M7800,
like M7800-YA. The manuals lists the Xtal frequencies (IIRC), and
the max baudrate for M7800's is 2400 Bd. The max baudrate for
DL11-W is 9600 Bd. I have a description of the DL11-W on my
website (www.pdp-11.nl) in the 11/34 folder under options ...
- Henk.
PS. no stupid company footer now ... let's see what is appended now.
_________________________________________________________________
Zoeken is nog nooit zo eenvoudig geweest! http://desktop.msn.nl
I added that jump and it fixed the problem.
Thanks, Don!
For those that are keeping score at home, there's a similar jump
needed for the KL8E serial board. The board has both EIA and 20mA
drivers and receivers. It transmits out of both all the time, and you
use the jump to pick which interface standard to listen to.
Now to get the M7800 card working so I can do TU58
stuff :)
Anyone know what speed crystal the "Northern Eng NE-6A" is on an M7800?
(i.e. does it do 9600 baud? ;)
Boy... that's a tricky one... do you have a frequency counter or an
oscilloscope? You could determine the base frequency with either
tool.
-ethan 
12:40 p.m.
Julian Wolfe wrote:
I get the following prompt:
XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the register values)
$
It's just that I can't respond to it. "L" for example is not echoed on
the
terminal when I press a key.
I'm going to try Don's tests tonight.
Could the problem be on the terminal end?
1. One thing to check for is that you have a good ground (pin 7 on the
DB25). I've had weird problems like this when the ground wire
was bad. You can also get strange things like short transmissions
look good, but long ones are messed up garbage (or vice versa).
2. Test that the terminal is actually sending the character. Short pins
two and three on the VT220 DB25 (transmit and receive pin) to create
a loopback connector, and see if what you type gets echoed back on the
screen. VT* terminals would sometimes fry the interface chips.
The VT320 could fry MicroVax II console ports when you turned the
terminal off.
3. What speed it this operating at? Sometimes the clock frequency
drifts (either, or both ends of the connection), and at higher speeds
it is enough to make things act flakey. Slower speeds aren't as badly
affected.
6:54 p.m.
I get the following prompt:
XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the register values)
$
It's just that I can't respond to it. "L" for example is not echoed on
the
terminal when I press a key.
OK, your machine is basically working. The CPU seems to be running the
console firmware, it can talk to the transmit half of the DL11. You've
also not used a straight-through RS232 cable -- the output of the PDP11
is certainly going to the input of the terminal.
Here's how I'd attack this problem (being a hardware hacker...)
1) Make sure the terminal is sending something. Put a breakout box
between the terminal and the PDP and press keys. Check you get some
indication on the breakout box LEDs that the TxD line from the terminal
is changing state.
2) Grab the printset for the DL11 and look at the output of the buffer
chip (probably a 1489) that handles the RxD line. Put a logic probe on
the output of that buffer, again prsss keys on the terminal and chack
that pin changes state (if not, suspect the buffer chip, they do fail...)
3) Now put the logic probe on the serial input pin of the UART and again
press keys. If there are no transitions here, maybe you've forgotten the
jumper wire in the cable connector that links the output of the RS232
receiver (or the current loop receiver) to the UART.
4) If serial data is getting to the UART, maybe the Rx Clock is missing.
Look at the appropriate pin of the UART chip with the logic probe to
ensure it's clocking. If you have a 'scope, make sure the frequency is
right too (16 times the baud rate).
-tony
6601
days inactive
6602
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ak6dn＠mindspring.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
fireflyst＠earthlink.net -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
kth＠srv.net -
pechter＠gmail.com