2 Jan
2020
2 Jan
'20
11:02 a.m.
Most of us who collect vintage computers probably have our own stories
like this, but I find this so amusing that I just have to share it.
Last year I did an exhibit on SPARC clones for VCF PNW and wanted to
include a Solbourne in it. Unable to cajole Cameron into loaning me one
:-), I went looking for one to buy on eBay.
There was a seller with, among other Solbourne hardware, a listing for
some number of IDT S4000DXs. They had started with 6 and were down to
4-5 when I started looking. IIRC, the base Buy-It-Now (BIN) price was
around $225, but, when they didn't sell, they were relisted with a
varying discount. In relistings, the BIN was as low as $167.
In a relisting where the discounted price was $195 BIN, I offered $175.
The seller didn't accept and, in the counter offer exchange, eventually
went above the discounted price. I didn't go for that. Then, in the next
relisting, the discounted price was $167. I bought one.
They were being sold with a HDD and a Solbourne frame buffer (Sun frame
buffers don't work in S4000DXs), but no keyboard or mouse (Solbournes
use proprietary keyboards and mice). The one that I got had a dead
Sun0424 (Seagate ST1480N) HDD and, I found out later, a broken frame buffer.
I put in a SD2SCSI and installed OS/MP (Solbourne's version of BSD
SunOS). From the serial console, it worked fine and I included the
system in my VCF PNW exhibit. After the show, I spent some time trying
to make a Solbourne to Sun keyboard adapter, but couldn't get it to
work. I have had it up for sale for a few months (my attention is now
focused on the barn-find Sun 3/260 that I hope to have working for this
year's VCF PNW).
But, back to the seller that I got the S4000DX from ...
The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6 S4000DXs (that at
one point included the one that I have). However, the pricing has
changed. Now, instead of the old base price of around $225, the base
price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being offered with an 83%
discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just under
$500.
I find this amazing and odd.
alan
2 Jan
2 Jan
11:13 a.m.
On 1/2/20 11:02 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
I find this amazing and odd.
I've noticed prices going up on eBay a LOT, without even including obscene shipping
charges AND sales tax
and people parting out things, including attempting to sell individual disks of multi-disk
sets.
1:57 p.m.
I've noticed prices going up on eBay a LOT,
without even including obscene shipping charges AND sales tax
and people parting out things, including attempting to sell individual disks of
multi-disk sets.
I think much of this has to do with changes Ebay made in 2019. The
only sellers that can really survive on Ebay now are high volume & low
margin, or low volume & high margin. There is no money to be made in
the middle with reasonable prices, and many of those sellers that are
reasonable have moved elsewhere.
The result is a bunch of ultra-cheap Chi-junk, and floods of sellers
that want all the money (and more).
--
Will
3:49 p.m.
I think much of this has to do with changes Ebay made
in 2019. The
only sellers that can really survive on Ebay now are high volume & low
margin, or low volume & high margin. There is no money to be made in
the middle with reasonable prices, and many of those sellers that are
reasonable have moved elsewhere.
Huh? What changes from eBay? Aside from tax which was driven by the states nothing has
really changed.
Prices are going up (mostly) because people think they can get higher prices. And why not?
When people are paying $2000 for a video card and $1500 for a KB everybody think they are
sitting on a stash of gold.
I see sellers listing the same item year after year with no change in price. You would
think they would want to move the inventory but not so. The inventory was bought super
cheap, has been sitting in a warehouse (forgotten) for years, and is effectively free
(i.e. other inventory is paying for rent and overhead) so no need to drop the price. In
fact if anything this is an impetus to raise price because it is now even harder to find
as all the reasonably priced units have been sold already...
I recently wanted to buy an EISA card - seller has 5 listed at 19.95 plus S&H w/ best
offer. They also go on "sale" regularly for 15-20% off. He has had them for
years (I needed a replacement for one I bought for $9.95 shipped a couple of years back).
I contacted them to make sure they were really in stock and check on the revision of the
board and suddenly price is $51. Now you tell me what does eBay have anything to do with
this price increase?
Prices are up because economy is good -> more people with cash to spend on
hobbies/wants vs. needs -> inflation (sellers charging more because they can) ->
prices up.
Just my two worthless cents...
-Ali
11:14 a.m.
On Jan 2, 2020, at 11:02 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6 S4000DXs (that at one point
included the one that I have). However, the pricing has changed. Now, instead of the old
base price of around $225, the base price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being
offered with an 83% discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just
under $500.
I find this amazing and odd.
alan
If the seller gets lucky and finds a business, or someone supporting a Government contract
that just *HAS* to have the system, then $3000 is a good deal. More likely than not it
will continue to sit.
I?ve been after a manual for months. There is one up on eBay for $520, it?s been there
for months. A few weeks ago the seller sent out an offer to anyone watching, with an
offer of $399, I sent a counter offer of $99. I just bought a copy that turned up
yesterday for $20.
I?ve been watching VAXstation prices. Now there is something all over the place. I don?t
really need any more VAX hardware, I?ve moved to emulation, but wouldn?t mind a working
4000/VLC. What I really want are a couple terminals, and especially a specific keyboard
that can be used on my VT420. I can find them at times, just not at prices that make
sense for me to buy.
Zane
11:36 a.m.
Most of us who collect vintage computers probably have
our own stories
like this, but I find this so amusing that I just have to share it.
Last year I did an exhibit on SPARC clones for VCF PNW and wanted to
include a Solbourne in it. Unable to cajole Cameron into loaning me one
:-), I went looking for one to buy on eBay.
I'm a jealous collector :)
I do think an S3000 would display well. Stephen Dowdy sent me his old one
and I should try to tidy it up as an exhibit. My "S3000DX" is too precious
to me; that one stays here.
There was a seller with, among other Solbourne
hardware, a listing for
some number of IDT S4000DXs. They had started with 6 and were down to
4-5 when I started looking. IIRC, the base Buy-It-Now (BIN) price was
around $225, but, when they didn't sell, they were relisted with a
varying discount. In relistings, the BIN was as low as $167.
[...]
The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6
S4000DXs (that at
one point included the one that I have). However, the pricing has
changed. Now, instead of the old base price of around $225, the base
price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being offered with an 83%
discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just under
$500.
I find this amazing and odd.
It's really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes really only
run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC systems they
are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the S4100 in
performance. It's really the S3000 that's the gem because of that wacky
plasma display.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- ASK ME ABOUT MY VOW OF SILENCE!!!! -----------------------------------------
12:38 p.m.
On 1/2/20 11:36 AM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6 S4000DXs (that at
> one point included the one that I have). However, the pricing has
> changed. Now, instead of the old base price of around $225, the base
> price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being offered with an 83%
> discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just under
> $500.
>
> I find this amazing and odd.
What I think is amazing and odd is $3000 for basically untested systems.
They don't even seem to connect up a serial console and see what the
diagnostic messages are displayed.
It's really rather ludicrous, given how even the
IDT Solbournes really only
run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC systems they
are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the S4100 in
performance.
Don't say that. I am still trying to sell one :) They are these great
systems :) The cool heat sink! The Panasonic branded SPARC processor and
other components!
alan
1:42 p.m.
It's
really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes really only
run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC systems they
are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the S4100 in
performance.
Don't say that. I am still trying to sell one :) They are these great
systems :) The cool heat sink! The Panasonic branded SPARC processor and
other components! 
3:31 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 3:42 PM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I mean, they're fabulotastic! ;)
The MN10501 is certainly one of the most unique SPARCs, if merely for the
KAP name ...
Many of the initial run of KAP unfortunately had a bug that caused the chip
to self destruct over time. I have an old KAP that suffered from this
issue. The guys from hardware came around and replaced them all and I got
to keep the defective one...
Warner
--
> It's
really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes really
only
> run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely
nostalgia; as SPARC
systems they
> are quite finicky and the later
SPARCstations surpassed even the S4100
in
performance.
Don't say that. I am still trying to sell one :) They are these great
systems :) The cool heat sink! The Panasonic branded SPARC processor and
other components! ------------------------------------ personal:
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Focus is all about saying no. -- early Apple employee
----------------------
4 Jan
4 Jan
2:32 a.m.
tor 2020-01-02 klockan 11:36 -0800 skrev Cameron Kaiser via cctalk:
It's really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes
really only
run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC
systems they
are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the
S4100 in
performance. It's really the S3000 that's the gem because of that
wacky
plasma display.
Solbourne positioned the later multi-processor MP systems against
the Ultra 1 and Ultra 2 as long as the software mix gained from
multiprocessing were they a potent method of getting more CPU
especially if your app sw was dependent on SunOS 4.
When Solaris 2.5 came out or more properly when SunOS 5 with its
mp support became stable enough and more vendors ported their
software to SunOS 5 solbourne lost their edge against Sun.
7:24 a.m.
On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 4:32 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
tor 2020-01-02 klockan 11:36 -0800 skrev Cameron
Kaiser via cctalk:
It's really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes
really only
run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC
systems they
are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the
S4100 in
performance. It's really the S3000 that's the gem because of that
wacky
plasma display.
Solbourne positioned the later multi-processor MP systems against
the Ultra 1 and Ultra 2 as long as the software mix gained from
multiprocessing were they a potent method of getting more CPU
especially if your app sw was dependent on SunOS 4.
When Solaris 2.5 came out or more properly when SunOS 5 with its
mp support became stable enough and more vendors ported their
software to SunOS 5 solbourne lost their edge against Sun.
Solbourne never had a working SunOS 5 port. We had Solaris 2.0 alpha and
beta CDs in house, but never really has Solaris going. By that time, sales
were too low to sustain a porting effort. IIRC, the first big round of
layoffs was before Solaris 2.0 was released, though they fumbled on a bit
on support contracts for a decade before dropping them all in 1999 because
the y2k bugs were too big an effort to fix.
Warner
1584
days inactive
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days old
10 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
aperry＠snowmoose.com -
cctalk＠ibm51xx.net -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com