10 Jun
2003
10 Jun
'03
9:31 p.m.
Yep, had read about that a few months ago.
See my text on the website:
www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-35/memory/core-intro.html
MRAM is described (brief) at the end. Also has
a link to a Motorola article!
greetz,
- Henk.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com]
Sent: dinsdag 10 juni 2003 16:23
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
There is a _new_ type of memory being developed called MRAM,
which uses magnetic fields to store data.
An interesting quote from the article (to bring it on-topic):
"Magnetic fields have been used to store data since time immemorial,"
he joked. "We were using it in the early 1960s and 1950s."
The article can be found at:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-1014865.html
Cheers,
Bryan
11 Jun
11 Jun
12:09 a.m.
Gooijen H wrote:
Yep, had read about that a few months ago.
See my text on the website:
www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-35/memory/core-intro.html
MRAM is described (brief) at the end. Also has
a link to a Motorola article!
greetz,
- Henk.
IBM reports success with magnetic memory,
www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp
Jim.
12:50 a.m.
Jim Davis writes:
Gooijen H wrote:
> Yep, had read about that a few months ago.
> See my text on the website:
snip snip
IBM reports success with magnetic memory,
www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp
Jim.
I remember when DRAM was 'faster than static RAM, and that was great until
static ram became faster than dynamic. All a matter of technology needing
something and then getting it.
Nowdays fast is the word, with buss speeds over 200 mHz. Sometimes old
ideas need nothing but an update. And of course volatility is a factor here
too.
What I've always wondered is that the main data storage is still
magno-mechanical, not much fundamentally different than storage was in the
50's and 60's with diskpacks. You'd think that a completely electronic
storage would have emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs?
As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to make
a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
7:28 a.m.
You'd think that a completely electronic storage
would have
emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs?
FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist.
At 04:42 AM 6/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
Jim Davis writes:
Gooijen H wrote:
>Yep, had read about that a few months ago.
>See my text on the website:
snip snip
IBM reports success with magnetic memory,
www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp
Jim.
I remember when DRAM was 'faster than static RAM, and that was great until
static ram became faster than dynamic. All a matter of technology needing
something and then getting it.
Nowdays fast is the word, with buss speeds over 200 mHz. Sometimes old
ideas need nothing but an update. And of course volatility is a factor
here too.
What I've always wondered is that the main data storage is still
magno-mechanical, not much fundamentally different than storage was in the
50's and 60's with diskpacks. You'd think that a completely electronic
storage would have emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs?
As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to
make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO 
7:33 a.m.
You'd
think that a completely electronic storage would have
emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs?
FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist. 
7:51 a.m.
Does anyone know if there are problems with close proximity magnetic
fields and MRAM?
--tom
9:08 a.m.
Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote:
As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of
dollars trying to
make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in
space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...
;-)
10:03 a.m.
Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen?
----- Original Message -----
From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote:
As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent
thousands of dollars trying to
make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in
space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...
;-) 
11:05 a.m.
TeoZ wrote:
Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with
wood you sharpen?
It wouldn't matter much which one you used. The one that needs
sharpening would have a somewhat higher volume of conductive
dust floating around, but both generate stray carbon dust, and
conductive chunks that break off when used.
I'd rather not have to worry about loose pieces of flamable conductive
dust floating around.
----- Original Message -----
From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
>Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote:
>
>
>>As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to
>>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
>>
This is just an urban legend.
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm
Just because it sounds too good to be true, doesn't make it true. ;=)
>Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got
rid of all static in
>space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...
>;-)
>
>
Fischer saw a business opportunity, and designed a pen that would work
in space. They initially sold 400 to NASA at 2.95 each. That's a lot less
than 1.5 million. They made more selling them to the public as a pen that
could write upside down.
11:21 a.m.
Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me
then the stray pencil lead dust.
That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back
home.
Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart
idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Handy" <kth(a)srv.net>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
TeoZ wrote:
Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones
with wood you sharpen?
It wouldn't matter much which one you used. The one that needs
sharpening would have a somewhat higher volume of conductive
dust floating around, but both generate stray carbon dust, and
conductive chunks that break off when used.
I'd rather not have to worry about loose pieces of flamable conductive
dust floating around.
----- Original Message -----
From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
>Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote:
>
>
>>As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to
>>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . .
>>
This is just an urban legend.
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm
Just because it sounds too good to be true, doesn't make it true. ;=)
>Which was a smart thing to do, this way they
got rid of all static in
>space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...
>;-)
>
>
Fischer saw a business opportunity, and designed a pen that would work
in space. They initially sold 400 to NASA at 2.95 each. That's a lot less
than 1.5 million. They made more selling them to the public as a pen that
could write upside down.
12:59 p.m.
Well I would be more worried about the guy with the
methane farts next to me
then the stray pencil lead dust.
NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles
causing electrical problems.
Some of the things the russians did were low tech but
usefull. Whose smart
idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?
There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower
the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a
lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner,
saving weight.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
1:28 p.m.
Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath because of
the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen wouldnt
help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things that are normally low
combustible highly combustible.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <aw288(a)osfn.org>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
smart
> Well I would be more worried about the guy with
the methane farts next
to me
then the stray
pencil lead dust.
NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles
causing electrical problems.
> Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose idea was it to
fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?
There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower
the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a
lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner,
saving weight.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org 
1:34 p.m.
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:
Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught
humans breath
because of the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using
oxygen wouldnt help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things
that are normally low combustible highly combustible.
Take a cubic meter of air at STP. Remove all the non-essential gasses,
leaving only the oxygen behind. You'll end up with same amount of
oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will
be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses.
Well, that's my educated guess at least.
-brian.
5:06 p.m.
New subject: OT Spacecraft atmosphere (was Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?)
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:
> Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath
> because of the buildup of co2.
That, and to intake O2.
> So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen
wouldnt help much
> would it?
On the contrary... (see below)
> Besides 100% oxygen makes things
> that are normally low combustible highly combustible.
That is certainly true.
Take a cubic meter of air at STP. Remove all the
non-essential gasses,
leaving only the oxygen behind. You'll end up with same amount of
oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will
be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses.
Well, that's my educated guess at least.
That's it. It's due to the partial pressure gas law... our respiratory
systems depend on there being O2 at around 0.20 atmospheres. It doesn't
really matter (within limits) what "inert" gasses are mixed with it.
It's not about total pressure - it's only the partial pressures of the
individual consituents that matter for the a variety of physical processes
to work, including respiration. CO2 is used as a regulator as well as
being a waste gas - we detect CO2 buildup in our lungs and regulate
the breathing rate to keep it down below, IIRC, 1%-2%.
Heliox is great for diving because it's a mix of O2 plus He2 to about
one Atm... solves the pressure problem at depth plus the problem of
N2 at depth being bad for you. Other gasses would work, too, but
AFAIK, He2 is used for cost as well as inertness (by-product of the
natural gas industry, IIRC). As an aside, there's a heliox tank
that visitors can suck on at the local science museum. All the
fun of a Donald-Duck-voice without the unpleasant side-effects of
pure Helium! (asphyxiation, embolism, etc.)
Humans can survive in a 100% oxygen atmosphere at ~20-25% of pressure
at sea-level, but there are other, non-biological consequences, mainly
severely increased risk of fire.
-ethan
1:36 p.m.
New subject: OT: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:
Well I would be more worried about the guy with the
methane farts next to me
then the stray pencil lead dust.
That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back
home.
Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart
idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?
Actually, both us and the Russians did that; they even did it first. Of
course, it happened to them 'behind closed doors' so we didn't get a
chance to learn from their mistake.
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
1:56 p.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
Yes, some russian caught something on fire in a test situation and it went
up like the hindenburg before he could put it out. I worked at a company for
over a year that did work with liquid oxygen, and after it went into a heat
exchanger oxygen gas. Its interesting what will burn in the presence of pure
o2 gas. Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and allowed to seep into it
can be very explosive (a leak of liquid o2 into a parking lot made of
asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances).
Now that I think about it doesnt nitrogen gas in your blood cause the bends
when you go from a higher pressure to a lower pressure (as in diving)? So if
your breathing normal air and you have a pressure drop in the capsule your
in for a world of hurt and that would affect your ability to fix the leak.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: OT: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:
> Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next
to me
> then the stray pencil lead dust.
> That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back
> home.
>
> Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose
smart
idea was it to
fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?
Actually, both us and the Russians did that; they even did it first. Of
course, it happened to them 'behind closed doors' so we didn't get a
chance to learn from their mistake.
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ 
12 Jun
12 Jun
11:20 a.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote:
Yes, some russian caught something on fire in a test
situation and it went
up like the hindenburg before he could put it out. I worked at a company for
over a year that did work with liquid oxygen, and after it went into a heat
exchanger oxygen gas. Its interesting what will burn in the presence of pure
o2 gas. Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and allowed to seep into it
can be very explosive (a leak of liquid o2 into a parking lot made of
asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances).
Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen
were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). Nice
property of it: if you don't need it to go *BOOM* anymore, just wait
until the liquid oxygen has evaporated ... although normal industrial
explosives sure are safer to handle.
Regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
11:33 a.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
--- Alexander Schreiber <als(a)thangorodrim.de> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote:
There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about
accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the
experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar,
IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into
latent detonation devices.
His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's
a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-(
-ethan
I worked at a company for over a year that did
work with
liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and
allowed to seep into it can be very explosive...
Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen
were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch).
12:13 p.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- Alexander Schreiber <als(a)thangorodrim.de>
wrote:
It has been archived (with pictures, even) on the WayBack Machine at
http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/
I must say, the grill lighting is pretty damn impressive.
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ
wrote:
There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about
accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the
experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar,
IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into
latent detonation devices.
His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's
a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( I worked at a company for over a year that did
work with
liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and
allowed to seep into it can be very explosive...
Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen
were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). 
12:40 p.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
It has been archived (with pictures, even) on the
WayBack Machine at
http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/
Nobody tell the Department of Homeland Security!
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
12:36 p.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
His page _used to be_ at
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's
a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-(
Well, you never know when some terrorist is going to try to build a bomb
with lighter fluid and lox.
False sense of security notwithstanding, now that the page is removed, no
one will be able to do damage with that particular information. No siree.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5:02 p.m.
New subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
In message <20030612202840.92397.qmail(a)web10305.mail.yahoo.com>om>, Ethan Dicks wr
ites:
--- Alexander Schreiber <als(a)thangorodrim.de>
wrote:
Well, I can't help myself throwing in a couple of (albeit continued
off-topic) anecdotes. The first comes from my dad when he worked
for General Dynamics in Fort Worth, TX. It seems that someone was
there demonstrating some of the properties of LOX. Apparently,
he poured some on the alphalt and then threw a brick at it from
a distance. Dad says that it shook dust off the rafters in the
factory.
The other anecdote relates to Gobel's former page. He talked about
a graduate student who talked him into doing it one more time "for
the cameras." It turns out he was my office-mate when I was a
grad student at Purdue. My favorite memory comes from the semester
he was teaching the COBOL course. There were inevitably long
lines of students with questions during his office hours during
which I couldn't get much done. So instead of twiddling my
thumbs I started helping his students out too. Of course it
was all worthwhile when a cute redhead came back for help a
few more times.
Brian L. Stuart
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ
wrote:
There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about
accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the
experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar,
IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into
latent detonation devices.
His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's
a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( I worked at a company for over a year that did
work with
liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and
allowed to seep into it can be very explosive...
Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen
were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). 
11 Jun
11 Jun
11:25 a.m.
New subject: Bell Labs MAC-8 CPU / programmer in a suitcase = ???
I saw this at a local computer joint - a Bell Labs
suitcase programmer with a MAC-8 CPU?
The manual was from 1979.
What do you make of it? Should I pick it up for anyone
here?
Thanks-
Steve.
1:06 p.m.
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:
Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with
wood you sharpen?
I'd probably opt for something like a wax pencil or maybe a non-graphite
black or blue colored pencil. I've seen some of them which are
"sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the
lead.
-brian.
9:56 p.m.
Brian Chase wrote:
I'd probably opt for something like a wax pencil
or maybe a non-graphite
black or blue colored pencil. I've seen some of them which are
"sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the
lead.
-brian.
That's a grease pencil..... I wouldn't want to use one for paper work.
They're better suited for writing on plastic surfaces.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
7717
days inactive
7718
days old
24 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
als＠thangorodrim.de -
aw288＠osfn.org -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
emu＠ecubics.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
GOOI＠oce.nl -
jpdavis＠gorge.net -
kth＠srv.net -
mail.list＠analog-and-digital-solutions.com -
pat＠purdueriots.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tosteve＠yahoo.com -
uban＠ubanproductions.com -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org -
vcf＠siconic.com