18 Feb
1999
18 Feb
'99
1:48 a.m.
On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
wrote:
At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
with
Michael,
Are those belts problematic?
Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate age.
Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is
pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll
probably fail.
Is there a common source for drive wheels?
What about the cartridges?
Thanks,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
18 Feb
18 Feb
3:50 a.m.
More requests for belts are still arriving; by Sunday evening I will
tally the totals and place the order monday morning.
Costs will be the list price; shipping costs will be determined by
postage in the U.S. I expect to use first-class mail for a few belts
and third-class for larger quantities. I will e-mail each of you
who order with the total amount.
The question below concerns the capstan rubber. I have simply
rubbed off the bad rubber, smoothed out the capstan surface, applied
contact cement and recoated with an appropriate strip of firm rubber
diagionally cut to minimize the impact of the splice.
Dig around in household items to find examples of rubber approx. 1mm
thick.
Michael Grigoni
Cybertheque Museum
Steve Robertson wrote:
On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
wrote:
At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
with
Michael,
Are those belts problematic?
Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate age.
Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is
pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll
probably fail.
Is there a common source for drive wheels?
What about the cartridges?
Thanks,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> 
6:56 a.m.
At 10:48 AM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe
[SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
wrote:
Don't try to use the drive with a "gooy" wheel. The goo gets into the
tape and sticks it together then when you try the tape in a good drive, the
tape stickes to itself and the drive breaks it.
At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
with
Michael,
Are those belts problematic?
Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate age.
Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is
pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll
probably fail.
Is there a common source for drive wheels?
NO, but I've been working on finding a way to rebuild them. Partial
success so far.
What about the cartridges?
They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at
hamfest and surplus outlets.
Joe
Thanks,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
6:33 a.m.
New subject: HP-85 Belts needed/drive wheel repair
To all,
I've found an easy way to replace the gooey drive wheels on the HP
cartridge drives as found in the HP-85, 9825, 9815, and other devices.
First, remove the drive motor/drive wheel assembly from the tape drive
assembly. Be careful not to break any of the wires going to the motor,
tape head, opto sensors, etc.!
Next, scrape of the goo remaining from the old hub. Once the majority is
removed, use an acetone-soaked rag to get down to the bare aluminum hub.
Next, cut three pieces of heat-shrink tubing whose diameter will allow
them to just fit over the bare hub (it's either 1/2" or 3/4"--I don't
remember offhand). Each piece should be about 1/2" long.
Slip the first piece over the hub and center it vertically. Shrink it
down with a heat gun or hair dryer. Slip the second over the first and
shrink it. Likewise with the third piece. Leave the "overlap" of the
tubing above and below the wheel. This helps to hold the tubing on the
hub and doesn't affect the operation of the drive.
Reassemble the tape drive mechanism.
After a bit of practice, I can usually get a tape drive rebuilt in 15 or
30 minutes. So far, they have all worked fine. The drive wheel is a bit
harder than the original rubber wheel, but it doesn't slip, as far as I
can tell. The only caveat is that it's probably not a good idea to leave
a tape in the drive (e.g., for autostart purposes) for long periods as
the harder drive wheel *may* dent the wheel in the tape cartridge.
Hope this helps!
Stan
Joe wrote:
At 10:48 AM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe
[SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
wrote:
Don't try to use the drive with a "gooy" wheel. The goo gets into the
tape and sticks it together then when you try the tape in a good drive, the
tape stickes to itself and the drive breaks it.
At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
with
Michael,
Are those belts problematic?
Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate age.
Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is
pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll
probably fail.
Is there a common source for drive wheels?
NO, but I've been working on finding a way to rebuild them. Partial
success so far.
What about the cartridges?
They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at
hamfest and surplus outlets.
Joe
>
>Thanks,
>
>Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
>
>
>
20 Feb
20 Feb
12:43 a.m.
New subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts...
Great! I just took the hp3000 off the truck and will probably need some
pointers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65595584
BTW: There are about 6 different HP newsgroups. They do get a lot of
traffic but most of it is for newer HP stuff.
Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
Joe wrote:
At 12:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, Stan P. wrote:
Hi Stan. When did you join this list?
Folks, we have another HP expert here now. Ask Stan all your HP questions.
Joe
To all,
<snipped>
3:26 a.m.
New subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts...
At 09:43 AM 2/20/99 -0500, Steve wrote:
Great! I just took the hp3000 off the truck and will
probably need some
pointers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65595584
Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch out, Stan likes 3000s
and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell 3000 :-)
Joe
5:43 a.m.
New subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts...
Joe wrote:
Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch
out, Stan likes 3000s
and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell 3000 :-)
Which Stan? :)
Steve: when you turn it on, you may be given a choice of COLD/COOL/WARM
for starting the machine. Choose WARM. The other methods will
"lose" disk space allocated to spooled printer output. (That space can be
reclaimed later, as it turns out.)
Stan (I'm the one who works on HP 3000s for a living...and for fun) Sieler
9:23 a.m.
New subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts...
At 11:43 AM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote:
Joe wrote:
> Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch out, Stan likes 3000s
> and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell
3000
:-)
Which Stan? :)
I was thinking of Stan Perkins but I think Stan Sieler is a HP 3000 fan
also and he has some impressive credentials.
Joe
18 Feb
18 Feb
7:07 a.m.
What about the
cartridges?
They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at
hamfest and surplus outlets.
1:08 p.m.
Eric Smith wrote:
Isn't it just a standard DC-100 cartridge? AFAIK, those are still being
made. Of course, it's undoubtedly cheaper to get them at a hamfest.
Unfortunately some HP systems (and some other vendors' systems as well)
require preformatted tapes. I hope the HP-85 doesn't need that.
I'm told that the HP 9133 (or was it 9144?) does.
The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85,
9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style
cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format
is not compatible with the 9144/9145.
One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a
long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside
the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and
cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the
BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory
area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors
and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85
and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner.
Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be
damaged in this way if they're old enough.
Stan
What about
the cartridges?
They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at
hamfest and surplus outlets. 
4:33 p.m.
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Stan Perkins wrote:
The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85,
9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style
cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format
is not compatible with the 9144/9145.
One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a
long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside
the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and
cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the
BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory
area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors
and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85
and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner.
Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be
damaged in this way if they're old enough.
Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across -
from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such
that the oxide face is
towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with
the drive
band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use,
and certainly broken drive bands, but...
- don
19 Feb
19 Feb
12:06 a.m.
Don Maslin wrote:
[snip...]
Don,
Looking at a DC-100 cartridge, both sides of the tape look about equally
glossy. I assumed that the oxide side was on the "outside" becasue that
is the surface where the R/W head contacts the tape.
Even if my assumption is incorrect, it may just be the continued
pressure of the drive band against the layers of tape that causes the
oxide to stick to adjacent layers and peel off. What I *do* know is that
the oxide does peel off in areas corresponding to the location of the
drive band.
Stan
One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a
long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside
the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and
cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the
BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory
area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors
and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85
and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner.
Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be
damaged in this way if they're old enough.
Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across -
from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is
towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive
band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use,
and certainly broken drive bands, but...
- don
12:56 a.m.
New subject: bad tapes was Re: HP-85 Belts needed
At 10:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Stan Perkins wrote:
I don't think it's due to the belts. I've had DEC tapes and others with
broken bands that didn't cause the media to flake off. Only the HP tapes
have the flaking problem AFIK. I have a bunch of new HP tapes that have
good bands but some of them still have the flaking problem. It just seems
to be characteristic of HP tapes.
Joe
The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85,
9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style
cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format
is not compatible with the 9144/9145.
One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a
long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside
the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and
cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the
BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory
area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors
and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85
and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner.
Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be
damaged in this way if they're old enough.
Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across -
from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is
towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive
band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use,
and certainly broken drive bands, but...
- don 
7:20 a.m.
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9:58 a.m.
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
Geez! You guys are dead right and I am dead wrong. It seems like a
strange way to do it though.
- don
Stan, how can
that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across -
from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is
towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive
band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use,
and certainly broken drive bands, but...
Just looked at a couple of tape cartridges - a DC300XLP (3M brand if it
matters) and an HP cartridge from my 85.
In both cases, the outside of the tape - the surface that faces the
recording head - is also the outside of the spool. I think it's
reasonable to assume that the side that touches the head is the
oxide-coated side, and thus it's the oxide-coated side that also contacts
the drive belt.
-tony
10:25 a.m.
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11:24 a.m.
On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
I just checked. The oxide is on the outside also.
- don
-tony
Geez! You
guys are dead right and I am dead wrong. It seems like a
strange way to do it though.
It makes the mechanical design much simpler. The outside of the tape (on
the front edge of the cartridge) has to be the oxide side, or the head
would have to fit behind the tape somehow. And having the tape that way
round means that the simplest layout of the cartridge will have it
spooled oxide-side out.
I can't think of an obvious cassette or cartridge that has the oxide on
the inside of the spools. Compact cassette, mini/micro cassettes, N1500,
V2000, VHS, Betamax video, 8mm video, etc all have the oxide on the
outside, I think.
Hang on. What about TK50s? They only have one spool in the cartridge, so
there's no mechanical reason to have the oxide one side or the other -
once you've grabbed the leader and threded it through the drive, you
could have the heads positioned on either side. I don't have a TK50 here
to check, but I think that one does wind with the oxide on the inside,
actually. 
11:34 a.m.
New subject: trade proposal
I've recently been discussing a sale/trade with a gent who has an old
Hewlett Packard HP65 calculator and accessories. Unfortunately for me, his
enquiries on the 'net have indicated to him that this machine is way out of
reach for me, as far as cash offers go. But I asked about trades, and
here's his WANT list...
* 'ChipSite' or 'PinSite' programming adapter for the Data I/O
'UniSite'
system. If PinSite, it MUST come with its positioning shoes.
* Additional pin driver boards for the UniSite.
* RAID-pluggable disk tray for the Hewlett-Packard NetServer LM 4D/66
system. I don't care if it's new, used, has a drive or not, or is painted
bright purple as long as it is electrically and mechanically sound.
* Rack-mountable PC case.
* Pentium-class PCI/EISA ( NOTE -- E I S A -- Enhanced Industry Standard
Architecture, NOT ISA) combo motherboard, at least Socket 5, prefer Socket
7, with a working PS/2 mouse port.
* Decent general-coverage HF receiver or transceiver, prefer mil-spec,
such as the Racal units that were floating around for a while. Cheap
commercial units, such as the Radio Shack stuff, are NOT of interest.
* Decent (doesn't have to be perfect) RF service monitor. One of the older
Motorola or IFR units would be fine.
If there is anyone on the list who has any of the above FOR TRADE, please
contact me adavie(a)mad.scientist.com and let's see if we can arrange a trade.
I have several Australian Microbees, VZ-200 and VZ-300 computers, S100
items, an original PC (64K) board, and lots of other odds and ends,
including some of the old books with lots of pics (eg: The S-100 and other
micro buses, Apple Interfacing, etc).
Thanks
A
--
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool
Site!?
?
18 Feb
18 Feb
3:49 p.m.
At 09:07 PM 2/18/99 -0000, you wrote:
Isn't it just a standard DC-100 cartridge?
I'm not sure about the length but I've been using DC-2000s with no
problems. Old DEC tapes work great. In fact, the HP tapes are sorry! The
media flakes off of them very easily. Back them up as soon as you get
them!!! I tested 14 of them a few months ago and some died on the first
use, only one lasted more than three days and it died after about two weeks.
AFAIK, those are still being
What about the cartridges?
They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at
hamfest and surplus outlets. made. Of course, it's undoubtedly cheaper to get
them at a hamfest.
Unfortunately some HP systems (and some other vendors' systems as well)
require preformatted tapes. I hope the HP-85 doesn't need that.
I'm told that the HP 9133 (or was it 9144?) does.
Yes the 9144 and 9145 and 7946 all require preformatted DC-600 tapes.
And they're formatted all the way across the tape not just across the data
track so there's no way to format them without a special machine.
No the small tapes used in the 9825s, HP 85s, etc are blank and can be
formatted in the computer/calculator. Most use the command "Initialize" to
format the tapes.
Joe
9438
days inactive
9440
days old
19 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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adavie＠mad.scientist.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
donm＠cts.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
msg＠computerpro.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
ss＠allegro.com -
stan＠netcom.com -
steverob＠hotoffice.com