2 May
2006
2 May
'06
10:22 a.m.
OK, I will scan the doc ... uhmmm need to check first *if*
there is documentation though. I checked on bitsavers in
the "Intel" directory, but did not find much resembling it.
- Henk.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R.
Sent: dinsdag 2 mei 2006 12:12
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: uScope 820
At 08:21 AM 5/2/06 +0200, Henk wrote:
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure
under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by
telephone and with a "reply" message.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Wow, $500 and $700 for that thing? I have one at
home with the
documentation, and I am sure never going to use it.
Guess putting it on eBay will make some money to finance the
PDP-11 stuff which is far more interesting than Intel *&@#~$% I will
check bitsavers if the doc is available, else I will scan that first.
I wish you'd scan the docs. I have both a Z-80 and an 8080
unit that I'd love to try out (and then sell on E-bay for $700+ :-)
Joe
2 May
2 May
10:31 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Hi
It seems like this has been mentioned before but I just
don't can't seem to find it.
I put an older 360K drive in with my 1.44M. Things seem
OK and I can use the 360K disk fine but I can't use the\
1.44M while the 360K is connected. If I remove the
26 pin connector, the 1.44 works fine.
What signal is most likely the problem from the old
360K that is stepping on the 1.44M?
I'm using this setup to transfer images for my Olivetti
M20 so it is somewhat on topic.
Dwight
12:30 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Dwight, a little more information might be helpful. What machine are you
putting the drives in? What kind of 360K drive (make and model)? And how
do you define "doesn't work" for the 1.44M?
Cheers,
Chuck
8:49 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Termination? Floppy drives have termination rules ...
3 May
3 May
1:53 a.m.
New subject: to the fellow looking for 1771 controller
Hi
I was just looking through the list of stuff that Anchor Electronics,
here in Santa Clara, Ca, has and saw they list 1771-1 for about $5 ea.
They have on-line ordering as I recall.
Hope this helps
Dwight
2 May
2 May
1:44 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Tuesday 02 May 2006 10:31 am, dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
It seems like this has been mentioned before but I just don't can't seem to
find it. I put an older 360K drive in with my 1.44M. Things seem OK and I
can use the 360K disk fine but I can't use the 1.44M while the 360K is
connected. If I remove the 26 pin connector, the 1.44 works fine. What
signal is most likely the problem from the old 360K that is stepping on the
1.44M?
I think it's perhaps got something to do with that "disk change" line,
which
was not implemented on a lot of the earlier 360K drives. If they didn't use
it they may have it grounded or something. I also seem to remember some
adapters that were to convert card edge to pins (or the other way around)
that had a jumper for this, and could maybe even dig one up here if you
want...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
3:33 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On 5/2/2006 at 1:44 PM Roy J. Tellason wrote:
I think it's perhaps got something to do with that
"disk change" line,
which was not implemented on a lot of the earlier 360K drives. If they
didn't
use it they may have it grounded or something. I also
seem to remember
some
adapters that were to convert card edge to pins (or the
other way around)
that had a jumper for this, and could maybe even dig one up here if you
want...
Pin 34 was often used as a "Ready" line on earlier 360K (well, 48 tpi
5.25"
drives), but it was gated off of drive select, so it shouldn't matter. A
bit of cello tape over the edge connector pin should confirm that. I'd
wonder more about the vintage of the 5.25" drive, some of which used 150
ohm pullups on input lines. This may require a bit too much drive current
from a modern CMOS floppy interface. When I got a
Catweasel I, I found
that it had problems with some old 5.25' drives. I simply
wired up a
buffer with some 74LS07s and LS14s, which cleared the problem up.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:17 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Tuesday 02 May 2006 03:33 pm, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I'd wonder more about the vintage of the
5.25" drive, some of which used 150
ohm pullups on input lines. This may require a bit too much drive current
from a modern CMOS floppy interface. When I got a Catweasel I, I found
that it had problems with some old 5.25' drives. I simply wired up a
buffer with some 74LS07s and LS14s, which cleared the problem up.
That's a good point, and one that I hadn't considered.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
3:35 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
OK and I can use the 360K disk fine but I can't
use the\
1.44M while the 360K is connected. If I remove the
26 pin connector, the 1.44 works fine.
^^ ????? Do you mean 34?
What signal is most likely the problem from the old
360K that is stepping on the 1.44M?
straight or twisted cable? termination?
I'm using this setup to transfer images for my
Olivetti
M20 so it is somewhat on topic.
3 May
3 May
1:50 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Hi Fred and all
Yes, I meant 34. I've been fiddling with a laptop drive
and it has the 26 pin z connector and that number stuck
out in my head.
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on pin
34 of the 360K drive and all seems well now. It seems
like the 1.44M use that line for detecting the 720k
disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just
couldn't recall what line was involved.
For the rest, I checked it with and without termination.
It is twisted cable and it was selected as ds1. Everything
was correct and the boot procedure execised the
head steps fine for both drive. It just errored on the
1.44M when I tried to access it. The 360K worked fine.
The 1.44M would work as soon as I'd disconnect the
edge connector from the 360K ( I did this hot but
it is only signal wires so I don't think it could hurt anything ).
Interesting problem for future reference.
Thanks
Dwight
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
OK and I can use the 360K disk fine but I
can't use the\
1.44M while the 360K is connected. If I remove the
26 pin connector, the 1.44 works fine.
^^ ????? Do you mean 34?
What signal is most likely the problem from the
old
360K that is stepping on the 1.44M?
straight or twisted cable? termination?
I'm using this setup to transfer images for
my Olivetti
M20 so it is somewhat on topic.
2:02 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
Hi Fred and all
Yes, I meant 34. I've been fiddling with a laptop drive
and it has the 26 pin z connector and that number stuck
out in my head.
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on pin
34 of the 360K drive and all seems well now. It seems
like the 1.44M use that line for detecting the 720k
disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just
couldn't recall what line was involved.
You MIGHT now have a 360K that does not notice when you change diskettes!
Be careful
IF you get a situation where that drive shows you the previous DIR,
instead of the current one after changing diskettes, don't write
until the OS knows it.
^C (Ctrl +C) will tell DOS that the disk has been changed.
It's documented in CP/M, and undocumented in MS-DOS.
2:17 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on pin
34 of the 360K drive and all seems well now. It seems
like the 1.44M use that line for detecting the 720k
disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just
couldn't recall what line was involved.
not quite "detecting"; "ready"
2:23 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I was thinking it was something else.
Dwight
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on
pin
34 of the 360K drive and all seems well now. It seems
like the 1.44M use that line for detecting the 720k
disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just
couldn't recall what line was involved.
not quite "detecting"; "ready"
2:20 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Hi Again
This is true that the disk change could be an issue but it won't
be an issue for me. I don't use it for DOS disk and use my own
software to talk directly to the controller and DMA. Like I said,
I use it to transfer images of disk for my M20 ( uses PCOS ).
I've seen mention of using control-c or control-break to get
DOS to reread the directories rather than use the image it
read in memory.
I did some more searching today and found a good source of
various bits and pieces about drives but I left the piece of paper
with the page at work. I'll post it tomorrow.
It talked about the disk change line but it didn't connect in my
head until I read the other mail that it might be this line that
conflicts with the 1.44M drive.
Thanks
Dwight
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
On Tue, 2 May 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
Hi Fred and all
Yes, I meant 34. I've been fiddling with a laptop drive
and it has the 26 pin z connector and that number stuck
out in my head.
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on pin
34 of the 360K drive and all seems well now. It seems
like the 1.44M use that line for detecting the 720k
disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just
couldn't recall what line was involved.
You MIGHT now have a 360K that does not notice when you change diskettes!
Be careful
IF you get a situation where that drive shows you the previous DIR,
instead of the current one after changing diskettes, don't write
until the OS knows it.
^C (Ctrl +C) will tell DOS that the disk has been changed.
It's documented in CP/M, and undocumented in MS-DOS.
4 May
4 May
10:09 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
Hi
I found the following site with a lot of good info about
floppy drives. The only thing missing is a good pinout
chart for the different types of drives.
http://cma.zdnet.com/book/upgraderepair/ch13/ch13.htm
As promised
Dwight
3 May
3 May
2:29 a.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On 5/2/2006 at 11:02 PM Fred Cisin wrote:
You MIGHT now have a 360K that does not notice when you
change diskettes!
Be careful. IF you get a situation where that drive shows you the
previous DIR,
instead of the current one after changing diskettes,
don't write
until the OS knows it.
^C (Ctrl +C) will tell DOS that the disk has been changed.
It's documented in CP/M, and undocumented in MS-DOS.
"Disk Changed" was pretty uncommon on 360K drives. More likely, it's
"READY" on pin 34.
Cheers,
Chuck
5:32 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Wednesday 03 May 2006 02:29 am, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 5/2/2006 at 11:02 PM Fred Cisin wrote:
I do have at least one pair of full-ht 5.25" drives that actually operate a
microswitch which I'm assuming is connected to that pin...
Most of them didn't, though.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
You MIGHT now have a 360K that does not notice
when you change diskettes!
Be careful. IF you get a situation where that drive shows you the
previous DIR,
instead of the current one after changing
diskettes, don't write
until the OS knows it.
^C (Ctrl +C) will tell DOS that the disk has been changed.
It's documented in CP/M, and undocumented in MS-DOS.
"Disk Changed" was pretty uncommon on 360K drives. More likely, it's
"READY" on pin 34.
5:30 p.m.
New subject: 360k disk and 1.44 drives not happy
On Wednesday 03 May 2006 01:50 am, dwight elvey wrote:
Also, 34 was the answer. I put a piece of tape on pin
34 of the 360K drive
and all seems well now. It seems like the 1.44M use that line for detecting
the 720k disk while the 360K used it for disk change. I just couldn't recall
what line was involved.
Ah. My guess wasn't too far off, then. I just looked in one box of stuff
here, and have these little adapters that were make for when the cable has
card-edge type connectors but the drive has pin-type. Some of them are just
adapters, but some also have a jumper on board to deal with that issue, and
the one I just looked at is labeled "TEAC".
(And if anybody needs any of these feel free to contact me offlist. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
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days inactive
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