1 Dec
1999
1 Dec
'99
5:15 a.m.
Allison,or Anyone
I recently got my MicroVAX I up and running it's MicroVMS 4.1
I listed devices and have an RD52 as DUA0.
and an RX50 as DUA1 and DUA2
I did not see any directory commands to tell how much disk space is
used/available. Are there any?
Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point I want to AVOID,
because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media
capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same drive
in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files )
According to Allison's prior post, should I assume this RD52 is a 30MB MFM
non SCSI drive?
I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a 84MB-90MB drive which I
think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller.
(I believe the Plessy is an LSI-11/34 clone.)The Plessy also has a Cipher
F880 1600 bpi 9-track tape drive connected.
Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of
these systems in a cluster?
It seems to me the more capable system would be the Plessy with larger HD
and Tape Unit already installed, (However I have never booted it, and I
have no Idea what OS currently resides on it.)
I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too
small to run openVMS alone.
Sincelely
Larry Truthan
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:36 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
<I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90
<for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too!
Thats a nice VAX!. I forget the URL of where to find vax performance
numbers.
<an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or
<similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I tak
Never hard of that problem. I suspect soemthing else has happend.
<it I can conversational-boot it and use the console as the startup file to
<wrest control from the system in the earliest stages, then, at least, purg
Likely you can assuming the disk is even there at all. If all else fails
drop in a 200-400mb scsi drive and install VMS 7.2 (hobby license) and
go on that. Once up you can mount the offending drive and see.
<Did I miss anything? Is there a publish procedure for recovering from tota
<full disks, or will I have to go back to the manuals and remember how to d
Never seen that failure.
Allison
1 Dec
1 Dec
5:27 a.m.
On Wed, 01 Dec 1999, Truthan,Larry wrote:
I did not see any directory commands to tell how much
disk space is
used/available. Are there any?
$ dir/free
Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point
I want to AVOID,
because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media
capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same drive
in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files )
$ initialize ...
According to Allison's prior post, should I assume
this RD52 is a 30MB MFM
non SCSI drive?
About 35mb, actually. It's a Quantum Q540. Great drive.
I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a
84MB-90MB drive which I
think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller.
(I believe the Plessy is an LSI-11/34 clone.)The Plessy also has a Cipher
F880 1600 bpi 9-track tape drive connected.
LSI-11/34...you mean 11/23?
Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on
either one, or both of
these systems in a cluster?
Not on the Plessy system...if it is indeed an LSI-11 based system, it's
not a VAX, it's a PDP11. Entirely different kind of system. But really
wonderfully cool in its own right! :-)
The MicroVAX-I should run the hobbyist distribution of VMS just fine.
I believe someone gave an earlier response that the
MicroVAX I was too
small to run openVMS alone.
It will be painful, yes, but I know of no reason why it wouldn't run. Anyone
else?
-Dave McGuire
8:10 a.m.
I believe someone gave an earlier response that the
MicroVAX I was too
small to run openVMS alone.
Well, you're not as bad off as I was thinking, must have been mixing you up
with a VAX-11/725. I just pulled up the SPD for OpenVMS
http://www.digital.com/info/SP2501/SP2501HM.HTM (beware, it's 122 pages).
It turns out the last version to support the MV I was actually V6.2, though
you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS Hobbyist PAKs are actually
good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to
obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
9:39 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
[snip previous argument]
you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS
Hobbyist PAKs are actually
good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to
obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM.
Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have
a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image
of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet?
When I got the machine I wanted to install 7.2 and got a hobbyist PAK kit
for it, but after booting the CD from my RRD50 I stopped. I started thinking
I should keep it in the same configuration as it came from DEC (not though what
the previous sysadmin did).
On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware
and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
e.
========================================================================
Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it
Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it
InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092
Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487
10143 Torino, Italy
Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,
manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals
==========================================================================
9:56 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve
both hardware
and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
I find it more gratifying, personally, when my collector machines can do
useful work too. So my VS3100 has a seagate 1.02 gb drive with VMS 7.whatever
and UCX on it, so it can be a useful member of my network. Likewise, my
apple 2 GSs, when assembled, usually have a 40 or 80 meg SCSI drive feeding
software to them. Heck, even my apple 2E has a 40 meg drive out of an old mac.
I tend to think of these machines as representatives of an evolutionary step
in computing in general, so I want them as far along as they got. I want the
machine represented in all its final glory, not the (usually) half equipped
embrionic state it was originally shipped.
The upshot is, if you want the machine to do useful work, go with the latest
and greatest version of VMS. If you want a museum piece that's historically
correct, don't. IMHO they're not all that different, really, although the
guts changed quite a bit. 7.whatever seems to run images I compiled under
VMS 4.5 back in college without a hitch, and to me, the old software is at least
as interesting as the OS.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
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10:30 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7
distribution tape? I have
I *WISH* I got a system a few months back with V4.x on it, and wouldn't you
know, before I could get a backup of the (*#_@ @*&# RD53 it died. I HATE
RD53's! One problem I see in less than a month, is that you need to be
running V5.5-2 or newer to be Y2k. The first Hobbyist CD shipped with
V5.5-2 and V6.1, IIRC. Note, in order to be Y2k on V5.5-2 and maybe V6.x
or V7.x you need to take a look at what patches need to be applied.
a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to
create an image
of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet?
Possible? Yes. Difficult, probably.
OK, to do it? I doubt it.
On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve
both hardware
and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
I want to use the machines, and I want to cluster them. Technically that
means the systems in my cluster should be running a minimum of V6.2 since
the main systems in my cluster are running V7.2. However, I've got a
mixture of V5.5-2 to V7.2 running.
The thing to do is take a serious look at the memory footprint of what you
want to run. On systems with only 12-16MB of RAM I'm running V5.5-2. I
think UCX/TCPIP by itself requires 16MB of RAM on VAX Hardware (kinda hard
to get on something like a MV2.
Best thing you can do for good performance is lots of RAM. On the Alpha
with V7.2 I've found that 64-72MB just doesn't cut it. It's OK at 96MB and
just fine at 112MB (of course this is as a single user workstation).
Thankfully VAXen aren't as demanding on the memory. Minimun RAM for V7.2
on Alpha is 64MB, on VAX it's only 16MB, which means you can just barely
squeeze it on a MV2, and that V7.2 is the last version to support the MV2's.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
11:02 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
I can really understand you. In less than 5 months I've had 1 RD54 and
2 RD53 die leaving me with 2 11/73s with no OS because I never got the
tapes with the machines. Must really find the time to look at the Unibus
Qbus ATA controller by Dmitry Pryanishnikov
Some days ago I posted a request about the status of IAS, but never
saw it, probably went into some SMTP blackhole. If IAS is still owned
by Compaq it would be nice to get a hobbyist license since Mentec is
lightyears from providing is for obsolete OSes.
Why difficult? Just copy the SAB
Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7
distribution tape? I have
I *WISH* I got a system a few months back with V4.x on it, and wouldn't you
know, before I could get a backup of the (*#_@ @*&# RD53 it died. I HATE
RD53's! One problem I see in less than a month, is that you need to be running V5.5-2 or newer to be Y2k. The first Hobbyist
CD shipped with
V5.5-2 and V6.1, IIRC. Note, in order to be Y2k on V5.5-2 and maybe V6.x
or V7.x you need to take a look at what patches need to be applied.
Does a hobbyist have to worry about Y2K 8-) I have enough of everyday's
work of handling Y2K crap.
a uVax II with
a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image
of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet?
Possible? Yes. Difficult, probably. OK, to do it? I doubt it.
Doesn't the hobbyist license cover all versions and not just 7.2. I found
an original DEC TK50 with VMS 3.3
The thing to do is take a serious look at the memory
footprint of what you
want to run. On systems with only 12-16MB of RAM I'm running V5.5-2. I
think UCX/TCPIP by itself requires 16MB of RAM on VAX Hardware (kinda hard
to get on something like a MV2.
My uVax II has 9 MB, while the 3100 has 12MB; it runs UCX and DECNET and
has better response time than the NT with 256MB I'm using to write this message.
e.
========================================================================
Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it
Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it
InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092
Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487
10143 Torino, Italy
Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,
manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals
==========================================================================
2 Dec
2 Dec
1:57 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
Hmmmm... Can anyone distribute a version of VMS? I have a few TK50s
with VMS 5.x on them, but I don't want to sell them (or loan them
for fear of damage.)
If I set up a private website, and placed images of the TK50s suitable
for generating new TK50s from, would Compaq come after me? Copying the
tape violates their copyright, but do they still care?
Opinions anyone? What arrangement does DECUS (COMPAQus? COMus? PAQus?)
have with DEC that allows them to generate CDROMs for the hobbiest
license?
Thanks,
clint
PS DONT ask for copies of my TK50s! I want a consensus about the
legallity before I distribute anything.
On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Enrico Badella wrote:
"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
[snip previous argument]
you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS
Hobbyist PAKs are actually
good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to
obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM.
Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have
a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image
of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet?
When I got the machine I wanted to install 7.2 and got a hobbyist PAK kit
for it, but after booting the CD from my RRD50 I stopped. I started thinking
I should keep it in the same configuration as it came from DEC (not though what
the previous sysadmin did).
On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware
and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
e.
========================================================================
Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it
Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it
InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092
Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487
10143 Torino, Italy
Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,
manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals
==========================================================================
2:12 p.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Enrico Badella wrote:
On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware
and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
Are you putting together museum quality systems? Or do you want
systems to work/play with? In the former case, you need to keep
the appropriate hardware, software, documentation, and distribution
sets. For the latter, build a system that does exactly what you
want it to do. Remember, this is YOUR computer, and it should
be configured the way you want it.
Most of my VAXes are running Ultrix 3.1 because that is the latest
version I have for them. My 11/750 will run Berkley 4.3 (the
appropriate software for that system). The VS2000 has VMS 5.4 so
I can play with DECWindows (I don't have the Ultrix Window
System 3.1 tape yet), but it will become Ultrix again someday.
I have absolutely NO soft spot in my heart for antique disk drives.
RD53s and RD54s are noisy pigs compared to modern drives. I purchased
SCSI controllers for my uVAX II and uVAX III and installed 1.? GB hard
disks in each. I am going to buy a SCSI controller for the 11/750 soon
(maybe clinty-claus will bring one for me), and convert the Fujitsu
Eagle into a doorstop (anyone have a missle silo door that needs a
doorstop?)
Laters,
clint
3 Dec
3 Dec
7:51 a.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
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10:17 a.m.
New subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)
> On a
philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware
> and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took
> out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2.
My view is that I'd never overwrite an original distribution kit -- I'd
preserve it and probably back it up. But I may well install a newer
version of the OS (given suitable licenses) on the machine. I'd attempt
to back up what was already there first, though. That's because I _use_
these old machines. For a museum exhibit, as you said, you want to have
contemporary software.
8993
days inactive
8995
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
enrico.badella＠softstar.it -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
truthanl＠oclc.org -
vaxman＠uswest.net