At 08:30 27-09-1999 -0500, you wrote: <snip> That was one of the ideas for tubulars -- that they would be very much pick-resistant. Tubular locks depend on depressing each of the pins to exactly the right depth, and the tolerances are very tight. My best guess is that it would take -hours- of continuous effort, assuming that a tool even exists for it, because all the pins have to be held in precisely the right position simultaneously. If you think tubulars are tricky, take a look at the Medeco high-security cylinders. Not only do you have vertical pins, you've also got a series of cams along the side that are angle-sensitive. That's why you'll see the keys cut with angled notches. I once heard a rumor that Medeco had a standing reward of $10,000 for anyone who could successfully pick one of their high-sec cylinders. If such a reward does exist, I've yet to hear of it being claimed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."