27 Apr
2000
27 Apr
'00
10:55 a.m.
Cp/M was a cross-platform operating system with several
layers to provide
support for any platform for which the base functions of CP/M were
compiled. In other words, if your machine boots cp/m then you can run the
vast majority of CP/M programs. Some you won't. A good example of a
situation in which a program cannot run is if it takes advantage of
non-standard system calls to access the video subsystem. There are quite
a few of these programs but most are commercial such as CPT system
accounting, spreadsheet and word processing. The CPT had a very custom
full-page physical display.
Well thats only true if unique BIOS calls or direct IO was done. If you
used the
standard BDOS calls then compatability was assured save for sillyness like
terminal control sequences.
The worst offenders for this were the modem programs as they needed speed
and CPM could but often didn't have interrupt driven IO or IOBYTE
implemented.
Probably the most important setting in CP/M is your
terminal settings.
CP/M software will run on anything but does have to be informed as to what
termninal type (ie ADM3a, Soroc, Televideo, Etcetera) in order to operate
correctly. --
Often taken care of in the install program.
28 Apr
28 Apr
4:27 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of allisonp
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 3:55 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Opening CP/M files (.asm/.bas)
Cp/M was a cross-platform operating system with several
layers to provide
support for any platform for which the base functions of CP/M were
compiled. In other words, if your machine boots cp/m then you can run the
vast majority of CP/M programs. Some you won't. A good example of a
situation in which a program cannot run is if it takes advantage of
non-standard system calls to access the video subsystem. There are quite
a few of these programs but most are commercial such as CPT system
accounting, spreadsheet and word processing. The CPT had a very custom
full-page physical display.
Well thats only true if unique BIOS calls or direct IO was done. If you
used the
standard BDOS calls then compatability was assured save for sillyness like
terminal control sequences.
The worst offenders for this were the modem programs as they needed speed
and CPM could but often didn't have interrupt driven IO or IOBYTE
implemented.
Probably the most important setting in CP/M is your
terminal settings.
CP/M software will run on anything but does have to be informed as to what
termninal type (ie ADM3a, Soroc, Televideo, Etcetera) in order to operate
correctly. --
Often taken care of in the install program.
Yeah, that could be my problem but then again, I can't say. I am doing some
systematic experimentation, and getting my feet wet on working with the
assembler, etc.. I guess that the main reason that I'm going to all this
trouble is because there isn't much software that will work for an Apple II
with Z80 softcard. The disk format is the problem -lots of software but I
can't get it transferred to my Apple CP/M disks because I don't have any
communication software to do it with.
However, I was wondering, would it be possible to hand copy (type) an
existing CP/M comm program to a Apple formatted floppy. I'm not sure of how
the addressing is handled by the Z80 card but my logic is that if most CP/M
programs will run on my Z80 card, would a generic CP/M comm program run
also. I'm guessing "no" but if anyone has any thoughts on it, please let me
know.
Thanks.
Ernest
5:26 a.m.
However, I was wondering, would it be possible to hand
copy (type) an
existing CP/M comm program to a Apple formatted floppy. I'm not sure of how
the addressing is handled by the Z80 card but my logic is that if most CP/M
programs will run on my Z80 card, would a generic CP/M comm program run
also. I'm guessing "no" but if anyone has any thoughts on it, please let me
know.
I don't know anything about the BIOS implementations on the Z80 cards, but I
use the exact same executable of Kermit on a variety of CP/M hardware. The
common feature of these machines is that they all support the I/O
byte. I've used
this executable on the Televideo 802 (pretty much a normal CP/M type of
setup), the Epson PX-8 (not even close to the hardware of the 802) and the
DECmate II (where the Z80 can't even touch the UART! It has to give messages
to the PDP-8 to do all of the work), but because all of these systems implement
the IOBYTE all of them can use the same executable of Kermit.
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
5:52 a.m.
I don't know anything about the BIOS
implementations on the Z80 cards, but I
use the exact same executable of Kermit on a variety of CP/M hardware. The
common feature of these machines is that they all support the I/O
byte. I've used
That is more uncommon than common. Comm programs for my VT180 do work on
the AmproLB but neither of the horizons or the SB180. as an example.
What kermit can do for you is allow a PC or any system as a host. But if
you can run kermit then you can have MEX or MODEM7 just as easily.
The biggest error people make early on with CPM to CPM transfers via
serial is going too fast as some can ru the port at 9600 (or faster)
but the CPU can not service the port that fast (kaypro is an example
if it writes to screen).
Allison
7:23 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 11:26:59AM -0600, Roger Ivie wrote:
I don't know anything about the BIOS
implementations on the Z80 cards, but I
use the exact same executable of Kermit on a variety of CP/M hardware.
It's been a while, but I clearly remember that building CP/M Kermit for
the TRS-80 Model II required a special version of one of the source files
(probably just for SET SPEED etc., the Model II wasn't as weird as the other
TRS-80s so ORG 100H wasn't a problem), and they had versions for lots of
other machines too. Maybe you're safe on any machine as long as you don't
try to set the comm parameters though.
John Wilson
D Bit
8:01 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 11:26:59AM -0600, Roger Ivie
wrote:
In addition to not setting the comm parameters, the BIOS must support the
IOBYTE. I don't know if this is the case for the Apple add-in cards, which
is why I said "I don't know anything about the BIOS implementations on
the Z80 cards" above.
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
I don't know anything about the BIOS
implementations on the Z80
cards, but I
use the exact same executable of Kermit on a
variety of CP/M hardware.
It's been a while, but I clearly remember that building CP/M Kermit for
the TRS-80 Model II required a special version of one of the source files
(probably just for SET SPEED etc., the Model II wasn't as weird as the other
TRS-80s so ORG 100H wasn't a problem), and they had versions for lots of
other machines too. Maybe you're safe on any machine as long as you don't
try to set the comm parameters though.
5:47 a.m.
Yeah, that could be my problem but then again, I
can't say. I am doing some
systematic experimentation, and getting my feet wet on working with the
assembler, etc.. I guess that the main reason that I'm going to all this
trouble is because there isn't much software that will work for an Apple II
with Z80 softcard. The disk format is the problem -lots of software but I
can't get it transferred to my Apple CP/M disks because I don't have any
communication software to do it with.
Well, if you have the softcard docs there are a pair of programs to copy
via serial line program from another CPM crate. they were called up and
down.
However, I was wondering, would it be possible to hand
copy (type) an
existing CP/M comm program to a Apple formatted floppy. I'm not sure of how
the addressing is handled by the Z80 card but my logic is that if most CP/M
programs will run on my Z80 card, would a generic CP/M comm program run
also. I'm guessing "no" but if anyone has any thoughts on it, please let
me
know.
No! Apple with softcard was a hybrid and the IO used the 6502 to do
serial, disk, screen and other handy things. Most CPM comm programs like
I'd said were the worst offenders for using the hardware directly.
The best way is to look at the up and down programs if you have them as
they are simple and do the basic work to communicate with asystem with a
similar program (they are very trivial). Unfortunatly I don't ahve the
the original version of them and the ones I use are very different so I
can't help there. But, Even the fancy versions I run are less than
300 bytes! The Apply ones were some 200 or so and easily hand entered to
DDT.
Allison
4:54 a.m.
New subject: Gene Sequencer at rummage shop in Seattle.
A few days ago, I walked into a no-name rummage shop, on Pine and Summit in
Seattle, and found a large Gene Sequencer, with attached teletype, and lots
of other analytical equipment. It's a heavy duty piece of equipment (all
steel,) and very serious looking. It probably weighs a ton, and it's about 4
feet long by 2-3 feet tall. Also, it looks old, like from the late
sixties-early seventies (just a guess.)
If anyone is interested, you might want to go and check it out. Don't ask me
how a Gene Sequencer from the University of Washington ever found it's way
into a hole in the wall rummage shop, or what on earth they hope to do with
it. I figure that there might be a hand full of people in the world who
might want it, and I doubt they would pay much for it. Still, it's an
interesting machine, and the extra hardware and teletype might be useful to
someone.
Ernest
PS. They also have a very nice and complete Commodore Plus 4, with floppy
drive and matching printer that looks to be a cool little system.
5:31 a.m.
New subject: Gene Sequencer at rummage shop in Seattle.
A few days ago, I walked into a no-name rummage shop,
on Pine and Summit in
Seattle, and found a large Gene Sequencer, with attached teletype, and lots
of other analytical equipment. It's a heavy duty piece of equipment (all
steel,) and very serious looking. It probably weighs a ton, and it's about 4
feet long by 2-3 feet tall. Also, it looks old, like from the late
sixties-early seventies (just a guess.)
The most truly amazing surplus story I've ever heard was that of a fellow that
acquired a surplus Plutonium processing plant from INEL, up in Idaho. The
government managed to stop him from shipping it to India, but it was a close
thing.
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
5:50 a.m.
New subject: Gene Sequencer at rummage shop in Seattle.
Roger Ivie <rivie(a)teraglobal.com> wrote:
The most truly amazing surplus story I've ever
heard was that of a
fellow that acquired a surplus Plutonium processing plant from INEL,
up in Idaho. The government managed to stop him from shipping it to
India, but it was a close thing.
IIRC, the only way they were able to stop him from selling it to another
party was to buy it from him, for thousands of times what he paid for it.
Technically it was legally exportable.
7:48 a.m.
New subject: Gene Sequencer at rummage shop in Seattle.
Ernest wrote:
Also, it looks old, like from the late
sixties-early seventies (just a guess.)
If it is that old, then it is likely that "gene sequencing"
had a different meaning than the one accepted today; I don't
think that "gene sequencing" as accepted today has existed for
more than 15 years, but I could be wrong.
--
Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14(a)cornell.edu
428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
10:32 a.m.
New subject: Gene Sequencer at rummage shop in Seattle.
::PS. They also have a very nice and complete Commodore Plus 4, with floppy
::drive and matching printer that looks to be a cool little system.
What model drive and printer? I'm looking for a 1551.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu
-- How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all? -- F.T.
8786
days inactive
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11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
allisonp＠world.std.com -
cem14＠cornell.edu -
ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ernestls＠home.com -
rivie＠teraglobal.com -
wilson＠dbit.dbit.com