4 May
2010
4 May
'10
8:05 p.m.
Everyone knows the "$100 laptop", the OLPC XO-1 machine that spawned
the Intel Classmate which in turn spawned the whole "netbook" market.
I will warrant that fewer know of the Indian $12 PC, based on a clone
of an old Nintendo:
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/12_PC_Based_on_a_Game_Console/551-91911-…
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9111759/_12_Indian_TV_computer_a_kno…
The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good idea at heart: a
computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor.
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
If you had to fit an entire computer, with storage and software, into
an FPGA or some similar device and install it in a keyboard, with a
couple of USB ports for storage and connection to a cellphone for
communications...
Which would be the best, most versatile, capable 1980s 8-bit machine to use?
An Apple II with loads of options in virtual "slots"?
A Commodore 64, for the graphics, sound and huge games library?
A Spectrum, for its simplicity but large range of programming
languages and so on?
A BBC Micro, with the best BASIC ever and sideways ROM support for
additional features?
An MSX2 machine, some of the latest and best-equipped 8-bitters?
Something exotic, like an Elan Enterprise or MGT SAM Coup??
Or a 1970s mini, like the Russian Electronika BK, a PDP/11-compatible
home computer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika_BK
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
4 May
4 May
8:25 p.m.
I guess if you continue talking about adapting classic computers into a
new role - this is relevant to the list. Otherwise it may be way
off-topic.
Lastly there are simple AVR microcontrollers that can handle almost
anything, here is a $3 AVR that can act as a Z80 computer:
http://hackaday.com/2010/04/27/emulating-a-z80-computer-with-an-avr-chip/
Curt
Liam Proven wrote:
Everyone knows the "$100 laptop", the OLPC
XO-1 machine that spawned
the Intel Classmate which in turn spawned the whole "netbook" market.
I will warrant that fewer know of the Indian $12 PC, based on a clone
of an old Nintendo:
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/12_PC_Based_on_a_Game_Console/551-91911-…
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9111759/_12_Indian_TV_computer_a_kno…
The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good idea at heart: a
computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor.
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
If you had to fit an entire computer, with storage and software, into
an FPGA or some similar device and install it in a keyboard, with a
couple of USB ports for storage and connection to a cellphone for
communications...
Which would be the best, most versatile, capable 1980s 8-bit machine to use?
An Apple II with loads of options in virtual "slots"?
A Commodore 64, for the graphics, sound and huge games library?
A Spectrum, for its simplicity but large range of programming
languages and so on?
A BBC Micro, with the best BASIC ever and sideways ROM support for
additional features?
An MSX2 machine, some of the latest and best-equipped 8-bitters?
Something exotic, like an Elan Enterprise or MGT SAM Coup??
Or a 1970s mini, like the Russian Electronika BK, a PDP/11-compatible
home computer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika_BK
5 May
5 May
9:57 a.m.
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Curt @ Atari Museum
<curt at atarimuseum.com> wrote:
I guess if you continue talking about adapting classic
computers into a new
role - this is relevant to the list. ? Otherwise it may be way off-topic.
Surely it's just a special case of emulation, which is pretty on-topic
& is regularly discussed... no?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
4 May
4 May
9:34 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Liam Proven once stated:
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
I would prefer the 6809 (which means, Color Computer). The chip is a
dream to program for, and with OS-9 (or a derivative) it would almost be
like Unix on a chip (not quite, but close enough). Give it the graphics of
the Commodore and you might have a winner on your hands.
-spc (Who's first computer was 6809 based ... )
10:07 p.m.
Sean Conner wrote:
But which 8-bit?
I would prefer the 6809 (which means, Color Computer). The chip is a
dream to program for, and with OS-9 (or a derivative) it would almost be
like Unix on a chip (not quite, but close enough). Give it the graphics of
the Commodore and you might have a winner on your hands.
I thought the Japanese had a similar computer. I am not sure if was 6809
or 68000. But when you think about it, you need lots of memory
for 3D graphics, and 16 bit addressing does not cut it.
-spc (Who's first computer was 6809 based ...
)
Ben.
5 May
5 May
9:56 a.m.
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:34 AM, Sean Conner <spc at conman.org> wrote:
It was thus said that the Great Liam Proven once
stated:
And the UK-made (Welsh, in fact) Dragon 32 and Dragon 64.
There was sod-all software for them, though, then or now...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff ?like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
?I would prefer the 6809 (which means, Color Computer). ?The chip is a
dream to program for, and with OS-9 (or a derivative) it would almost be
like Unix on a chip (not quite, but close enough). ?Give it the graphics of
the Commodore and you might have a winner on your hands. 
2:02 a.m.
The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good
idea at heart: a
computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor.
Millions of USEABLE computers being thrown away everyday, and people
think in creating such a beast?
C'mon, there are tons of good computers filling landfils, just donate
it! :P
7:18 a.m.
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas
<pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> wrote:
? Millions of USEABLE computers being thrown away
everyday, and people think
in creating such a beast?
? C'mon, there are tons of good computers filling landfils, just donate it!
:P
I agree. I was thinking the same thing about old cell phones. The
ones people are throwing away are vastly more powerful than old 8-bit
machines.
brian
9:56 a.m.
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Alexandre Souza -
Listas
<pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> wrote:
It's true, they are, and I do donate. 8 screens to ComputerAid last
month, and 4 whole PCs to a small charity in Vauxhall in South London,
all destined for sub-Saharan Africa.
But there's a difference between charity & a product to be sold. Also,
there's a limit to what someone who lives in a shanty-town can afford
and use. These people may have no mains electricity, no furniture etc.
A keyboard that runs off a couple of Watts, that can be plugged into a
car battery and use the communal TV, is a bit different from a
multi-hundred-Watt business PC with a system unit, screen, keyboard,
mouse, etc. - and which needs a fair bit of expertise to use, as
opposed to a dead-simple solid-state device with no disk drives.
There already are charities trying to persuade companies to donate old
PCs to equip schools. What we geeks need to do is persuade people that
the Right Thing To Do is to wipe the hard disk with DBAN or something
like that, not remove it and destroy it. I know a number of large
organizations that will NOT donate old kit - it's all destroyed. We
need to change that.
But also, even the poor have pride. Many people hate taking charity
"gifts". They'd rather /buy/ something with their own money to better
their kids' prospects. That's basic human nature & not to be ignored.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
? Millions of USEABLE computers being thrown away
everyday, and people think
in creating such a beast?
? C'mon, there are tons of good computers filling landfils, just donate it!
:P
I agree. ?I was thinking the same thing about old cell phones. ?The
ones people are throwing away are vastly more powerful than old 8-bit
machines. 
1:09 p.m.
Everyone knows the "$100 laptop", the OLPC XO-1 machine that spawned
the Intel Classmate which in turn spawned the whole "netbook" market.
I will warrant that fewer know of the Indian $12 PC, based on a clone
of an old Nintendo:
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/12_PC_Based_on_a_Game_Console/551-91911-=
581.html
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9111759/_12_Indian_TV_computer_a_kno=
ckoff_of_80s_Nintendo_system_not_Apple_II
The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good idea at heart: a
computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor.
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
Is this a subtle way of restarting the 'My C64 beats your speccy' war? If
so, it's not going to work :-)
If you had to fit an entire computer, with storage and software, into
an FPGA or some similar device and install it in a keyboard, with a
couple of USB ports for storage and connection to a cellphone for
communications...
Which would be the best, most versatile, capable 1980s 8-bit machine to use=
?
An Apple II with loads of options in virtual "slots"?
A Commodore 64, for the graphics, sound and huge games library?
A Spectrum, for its simplicity but large range of programming
languages and so on?
A BBC Micro, with the best BASIC ever and sideways ROM support for
additional features?
One good thing about the BBC micro (at least for me) was the large number
of built-in interfacs, particularly the user port and ADC. You are not
going to be able to duplcate that for $12 (not even the connectors!, and
IMHO you would have to buffer them to protect the FPGA or whatever
against user error. It was one thign to blow up a 5 quid VIA in a machine
costing \pounds 400. It would be quiie enoguh to blow up a $10 FPGA in a
machien costing $12...)
An MSX2 machine, some of the latest and best-equipped
8-bitters?
I guess my vote would got to a clone of the TRS-80 CoCo3 running OS-9 and
BASIC-09. That software is rommable, which makes life a little easier.
It's alos a very nice verion of BASIC (better than BBC BASIC in some
repsects).
If the cost was less of an issue, so I could have buffered user port,
ADC, etc, then by dream 8-bitter would be much of the BCC micro hardware
with a 68B09 rather than a 6502 CPU.
-tony
2:05 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I'd use one of the dirt cheap ARM based cpus with Linux.
The hardware cost for an old cpu is same as newer.
However if salvaging old hardware then the game changes to what
is available.
WRT54GL routers are simple, hackable and run linux
and have the needed wifi and wire ports.
Many of the newer game consoles are expensive but one or two
generations back are scrap and have mreo resources than many
8bitters.
Generally it's cost and availability with the latter driving it more
based on a friend over in Mozambique.
Allison
Everyone knows
the "$100 laptop", the OLPC XO-1 machine that spawned
the Intel Classmate which in turn spawned the whole "netbook" market.
I will warrant that fewer know of the Indian $12 PC, based on a clone
of an old Nintendo:
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/12_PC_Based_on_a_Game_Console/551-91911-=
581.html
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9111759/_12_Indian_TV_computer_a_kno=
ckoff_of_80s_Nintendo_system_not_Apple_II
The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good idea at heart: a
computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor.
But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap,
something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and
really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the
box?
I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY
simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone
one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra
software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV
device.
But which 8-bit?
Is this a subtle way of restarting the 'My C64 beats your speccy' war? If
so, it's not going to work :-)
If you had to fit an entire computer, with
storage and software, into
an FPGA or some similar device and install it in a keyboard, with a
couple of USB ports for storage and connection to a cellphone for
communications...
Which would be the best, most versatile, capable 1980s 8-bit machine to use=
?
An Apple II with loads of options in virtual "slots"?
A Commodore 64, for the graphics, sound and huge games library?
A Spectrum, for its simplicity but large range of programming
languages and so on?
A BBC Micro, with the best BASIC ever and sideways ROM support for
additional features?
One good thing about the BBC micro (at least for me) was the large number
of built-in interfacs, particularly the user port and ADC. You are not
going to be able to duplcate that for $12 (not even the connectors!, and
IMHO you would have to buffer them to protect the FPGA or whatever
against user error. It was one thign to blow up a 5 quid VIA in a machine
costing \pounds 400. It would be quiie enoguh to blow up a $10 FPGA in a
machien costing $12...)
An MSX2 machine, some of the latest and
best-equipped 8-bitters?
I guess my vote would got to a clone of the TRS-80 CoCo3 running OS-9 and
BASIC-09. That software is rommable, which makes life a little easier.
It's alos a very nice verion of BASIC (better than BBC BASIC in some
repsects).
If the cost was less of an issue, so I could have buffered user port,
ADC, etc, then by dream 8-bitter would be much of the BCC micro hardware
with a 68B09 rather than a 6502 CPU.
-tony
5345
days inactive
5345
days old
11 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
brianlanning＠gmail.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
spc＠conman.org -
teoz＠neo.rr.com