On 02/25/2018 09:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Fred, ?Just wow!?? Set reaction$mode=sarcasm/troll Does he mean my 1973 PDP-8f, or maybe the Altair, TRS80, or my LSI-11/03 is not? ?Heck I don't even keep PCs as collectible, oops I do have a random Ratshack HX1000. Seriously? Allison

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: I think that the PC/5150 (truly a "danger to itself and others", using another meaning of "5150") was August 11, 1981. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

It make me laugh and cry when I see on craigslist "Antique Computer" and it is a C 64 On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 7:46 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, Zane Healy wrote: When Erector sets switched from their mains powered motor with gears to a plastic batter powerd, I wondered about the future of engineering in the USA. With it discontinued, I no longer wonder. With the advent of digital watches, kids need to stop and think for a while to figure out which way is "clockwise". With calculators, kids can no longer do simple arithmetic. Just keep them off of my lawn.

I thought vintage had to do with wine--and not necessarily old. e.g. 2006 cabernet sauvignon. "Vintage computing" occurs when you figure out how many bottles you've drunk. --Chuck

I think in collecting terms it first got used for cars where, certainly in the uk, its strictly 1919-1930 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_car later is post vintage, or classic, or scrap... And why afterwards you bought something on E-Bay that you can't get upstairs to the collection room.. Dave

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018, Jay West via cctalk wrote: . . . and a sarcastic response just further exacerbates the situation. Sorry.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Which aspects do you consider the DMV to be competent in? Is a 1983 car really "historic ~> vintage"?? I can't tell them apart since the 1970s! Yes, I can tell the difference between the bumpers of 1973 Honda V 1974, but only because i was working on them. In the 1960s, there were some more interesting cars: The Honda S800 (not imported to USA) was a 2 seater sports car that was a poor man'd Ferrari - a design exercise that got out of hand and went into production, with dual OHC, roller bearing, (even distributor shaft), 9.5K (conservatively) redline. Meanwhile, the Toyota 800 was a very similar body with barely more than a lawn mower engine. When competing, the question was whether the race would be long enough to be decided by speed or DNF. NO! long time ago, some claimed that the definition for this list (a claim rejected by list management) was "ten years". Today, I might agree with 27 years, but next year I would want an increment. Although I consider PC to be fun, I'm not sure that I could agree with calling it "vintage". If John Titor is around, I will supply a 5100 (APL AND BASIC) and a good investment portfolio in exchange for ONE-WAY back 55 years. Payment arranged after arrival. I'll take the long way part-way home. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

Sigh ... well if we're really have this conversation.... I maintain that the present definition of "vintage", or at least how we see it over at Vintage Computer Federation, is no longer year-based. The proof: Windows 98. :) Obviously the * majority * of vintage computing is the sweet spot that we all know and love -- 1960s, 1970s, 1980s. But just as a modern car can become an instant collectible -- think Dodge Viper, original Ford Taurus, etc., which were groundbreaking designs -- so too must we all as collectors keep in mind that not everything old is worth saving, and not everything worth saving is old.