14 Nov
2015
14 Nov
'15
10:07 a.m.
Sorry I forgot to remove the SPAM KEY notice thsat my e-mail places
there!!!!
NOTE: I don't have a real PDP-11/05. All my tests
were done under Ersatz-11.
I just tried to boot V04.00 of RT-11 on a PDP-11/05
using an RK05 device (RK:) under the RT11SJ.SYS
monitor. First I set the memory to 32 KB (16KW)
and it worked quite well. Then I tried with 16 KB
(8KW) and while it did boot, during the boot process
of V04.00 of RT-11, I did see the error message:
Insufficient Memory
On the other hand, I was able to perform a DIR
and a few other tests which did work.
I then attempted to confirm with V2 and 16 KB of
memory and that also worked with the RK05 device.
Obviously, it is not possible to do very much with
just 16 KB (8KW) of memory.
As for support for the TU58 device (DD:), I also
attempted that and came up empty. using V3B
of RT-11. The V3B distribution which I have
does not seem to support the TU58 since RT-11
crashes when I attempt to use the TU58 device.
There may be some bad code in RT-11 when the
TU58 is used with a PDP-11/05. I just don't have
the resources in the time that is available to find out.
Josh, you don't mention if you have a disk drive
of any kind on the PDP-11/05, It would help
if you could describe all of the available hardware.
If the TU58 is the only "disk drive" available, then
I am not sure what to suggest in order to get RT-11
to run in any case.
Jerome Fine
Paul Koning wrote:
On Nov 13,
2015, at 5:45 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all --
Now that I have my PDP-11/05 running nicely, I'm curious what others are
running on small systems like this -- until this point I've only played
with larger (i.e. at least 28KW memory) systems. I have only 8KW of memory
(with no viable options for expansion) and there's not much out there that
I've found. There's paper-tape BASIC (which is always fun) and FOCAL, and
PTS-11 (http://iamvirtual.ca/PDP-11/PTS-11/PTS-11.htm) which is pretty cool
if a bit cumbersome. Any other suggestions?
I'm also curious if any version of RT-11 that supports the TU58 could be
made to run on this system -- I have two SLUs in the system so in theory I
can boot from an emulated TU58. However RT-11 4.0's SYSGEN manuals suggest
that 12KW is the minimum supported (and experimentation bears this out) and
I can't find much in the way of manuals for RT-11 V3B -- which I believe is
the earliest version with TU58 support. (V3B seems to be different enough
from later versions that I'm not quite sure how the SYSGEN process works.)
RT11 V2 SJ will certainly fit easily in that size memory. DOS will fit even in 4K (at
least the older versions). Come to think of it, RT might also; I haven't tried it
that small.
paul
14 Nov
14 Nov
11:44 a.m.
On Nov 14, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Jerome H. Fine
<jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
...
I then attempted to confirm with V2 and 16 KB of
memory and that also worked with the RK05 device.
Obviously, it is not possible to do very much with
just 16 KB (8KW) of memory.
Actually, 8 kW is quite functional with V2. I used it in college, with RT Basic and that
worked just fine. Software development ditto; I'm pretty sure I did editing and
assembling and the like on that system. Presumably with TECO, and of course RT MACRO and
LINK. I made significant mods to that BASIC, and also added an RC11 driver to RT11.
I believe I used the SJ version, but I'm not entirely sure. The FB version is
certainly larger overall, but I don't remember anymore if it requires more memory just
for the resident OS. (I don't expect the foreground feature to be all that practical
in such small memory, though, not unless the foreground program is quite small.)
paul
1:48 p.m.
On 11/14/15 7:07 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Sorry I forgot to remove the SPAM KEY notice thsat my
e-mail places
there!!!!
NOTE: I don't have a real PDP-11/05. All my tests
were done under Ersatz-11.
I just tried to boot V04.00 of RT-11 on a PDP-11/05
using an RK05 device (RK:) under the RT11SJ.SYS
monitor. First I set the memory to 32 KB (16KW)
and it worked quite well. Then I tried with 16 KB
(8KW) and while it did boot, during the boot process
of V04.00 of RT-11, I did see the error message:
Insufficient Memory
On the other hand, I was able to perform a DIR
and a few other tests which did work.
It's interesting; I tried the same thing
and while it worked under simh
booting from RK05, when I tried it on the real thing (after changing the
boot device to DD:) it fails with:
"?BOOT-U-Insufficient memory"
And halts. I'm unsure what would cause the discrepancy; simh doesn't
appear to support the TU58 for the PDP-11 so I can't verify, but perhaps
the DD: driver requires more memory. (And yes, I've tested the 8KW
memory in the 11/05 extensively, it's all there and working :)).
Paul Koning wrote:
On Nov
13, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all --
Now that I have my PDP-11/05 running nicely, I'm curious what others
are
running on small systems like this -- until this point I've only played
with larger (i.e. at least 28KW memory) systems. I have only 8KW of
memory
(with no viable options for expansion) and there's not much out
there that
I've found. There's paper-tape BASIC (which is always fun) and
FOCAL, and
PTS-11 (http://iamvirtual.ca/PDP-11/PTS-11/PTS-11.htm) which is
pretty cool
if a bit cumbersome. Any other suggestions?
I'm also curious if any version of RT-11 that supports the TU58
could be
made to run on this system -- I have two SLUs in the system so in
theory I
can boot from an emulated TU58. However RT-11 4.0's SYSGEN manuals
suggest
that 12KW is the minimum supported (and experimentation bears this
out) and
I can't find much in the way of manuals for RT-11 V3B -- which I
believe is
the earliest version with TU58 support. (V3B seems to be different
enough
from later versions that I'm not quite sure how the SYSGEN process
works.)
RT11 V2 SJ will certainly fit easily in that size memory. DOS will
fit even in 4K (at least the older versions). Come to think of it,
RT might also; I haven't tried it that small.
paul
I then attempted to confirm with V2 and 16 KB of
memory and that also worked with the RK05 device.
Obviously, it is not possible to do very much with
just 16 KB (8KW) of memory.
As for support for the TU58 device (DD:), I also
attempted that and came up empty. using V3B
of RT-11. The V3B distribution which I have
does not seem to support the TU58 since RT-11
crashes when I attempt to use the TU58 device.
There may be some bad code in RT-11 when the
TU58 is used with a PDP-11/05. I just don't have
the resources in the time that is available to find out.
Josh, you don't mention if you have a disk drive
of any kind on the PDP-11/05, It would help
if you could describe all of the available hardware.
If the TU58 is the only "disk drive" available, then
I am not sure what to suggest in order to get RT-11
to run in any case.
What I have available (that will work/fit in an 11/05 lacking a UNIBUS
expansion chassis) are two SLUs and an RX02 controller. I was hoping to
bootstrap over TU58 and then see what I can do to get a system running
off of the RX02 (which will require V4.0 for the DY: driver).
It might just be easier to build an RX02 image on simh and try copying
it to the '11 over the SLU. Have to cobble some code together to do that...
- Josh
Jerome Fine
3168
days inactive
3168
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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billdegnan＠gmail.com -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
paulkoning＠comcast.net