New subject: OT: Re: sellers market

20 Mar 1999

Marvin, you're right on the money!

Sam objects to "idiots" bidding against presumably rational people and
allowing the prices to escalate (he believes) due to the auction atmosphere
presented by eBay.  I don't happen to agree with him.  The people who sell
their good at auction wish for a ridiculously hign price.  They don't often
get it.  The notion that these high bidders are idiots is false, however.
You remember what was paid for John Kennedy's cigar Humidor?  Well only an
idiot would pay that for a humidor, right?  It's the market that determines
what an item is worth at any given time, and these "idiots" are free to roam
the market, as are those who hope that THEIR Altair serial I/O board will
look, to someone else, like JFK's humidor.

It's true, that eBay seeks to benefit by this overall-inane-if-not-insane
auction environment, simply because their fee is tied to the final bid
offered.  Sam objects to this, while I object to the high precentage of
failed transactions which eBay freely admits.  I also dislike the fact that
eBay charges for the price and not for the amount paid, which, in the failed
transactions, is nil.

A few days ago, I was visiting Best Buy, which is a common source of
computer hardware at reasonable prices.  I declined to pay $180 for a 10GB
hard disk because I though the price was a mite high.  That was not the only
reason, but it was a factor.  Twenty years ago, I paid $1500 for a 5MB
Winchester drive.  Lots of other people thought the price was a mite high,
but I paid the price, believing that I needed the drive more than I needed
the $1500.  Does that make me an idiot?  Does that make all the people who
didn't buy the things twenty years ago fools?  I think not.

All this is an allusion to the fact that it's called a "free" market.  I
guess that means that there's no restriction against fools and idiots.

Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin &lt;marvin(a)rain.org&gt;
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
&lt;classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu&gt;
Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: sellers market

...

Sellam Ismail wrote:

 On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Marvin wrote: 
  Yes, an open market WITH MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO
ENCOURAGE THE RAMPANT
 ESCALATION OF PRICES BEYOND ANY REASONABLE ASSUMPTION OF "FAIR MARKET
 VALUE"!  Look me straight in the eye and tell me that you think the way
 eBay structures its service does not lead to unreasonable price
 speculation on the part of buyers?

 The price an idiot decides to pay for a certain something does not and
 should not define what the rest of us should have to pay! 
Are you interested in getting a hot topic going for VCF III?  Put me down on
...
 the panel to debate the function online auctions play
in determining
pricing, and the relationship of that pricing to perceived value.

Your statement about MECHANISMS IN PLACE is interesting, but anyone who
stops to think will realize that any type of marketing will produce the same
...
 results. So why are you trying to make ebay a special
case (which it is
not)?

Since this is getting seriously off topic, I'll let it drop, but you might
want to consider this topic for VCF III!

> I'm throwing my support behind whatever effort takes place to create a
> free buy/sell/trade bulletin board.  Its something I've been wanting to do
...
   for a while,
and I think the time is right.  I see a need and a purpose
 for it, and it will be a great year round anchor for the VCF activities,
 which is why I'd be willing to put whatever time and money it takes to
 bring it to fruition and have it sponsored by the VCF. 
Free? I think this is a great idea, but generally speaking, "free" to one
person can be expensive to another. To name just one example, VCF. You have
put a great deal of time, effort, AND money into getting it up and running
with minimal cost to participants.

 I think a better idea would be to have niche market mini-online auctions,
and charge accordingly. I don't think I have ever found someone who objected
...
 to ebay charges. 