1 Jun
2003
1 Jun
'03
10:21 p.m.
RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's
2 Jun
2 Jun
3:50 a.m.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote:
RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different
from 2.5mb RK05's
Ok, my ignorance.
What drive is required to read them?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
4:51 a.m.
In message <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306020545020.6552-100000(a)siconic.com>
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote:
Google revealed
http://www.proximity.com.au/~brian/comp/vax750.html. I'm
guessing the disk packs belonged to a DEC VAX system of some type or other.
The URL I mentioned gives specs for someone's VAX 11/750 BTW. The RM05 is
supposedly a 250MB "Massbus" disk, if that means anything to any DEC experts
around here...
Disclaimer: I've never even seen a Digital (DEC) machine, much less used one.
I just plugged "DEC Digital RM05" into Google and had a look through the
results...
Later.
--
Phil.
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/
RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite
different from 2.5mb RK05's
Ok, my ignorance.
What drive is required to read them? 
5:21 a.m.
> Ok, my ignorance.
I don't know of a better resource than this,
though it doesn't have everything, like RL02's and the RK.
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/storage.html#s
torage:rm05
"RM05
Capacity: 256MB Size: 14" removable, ~200Kg
Power: 220/240V @ 14A start, 10A run
Notes: 12 platters, based on CDC 9766"
>> needs RK05 drive on east coast
The RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is
a good place to try on the east coast for DEC:
http://www.osfn.org/rcs
John A.
6:06 a.m.
--- Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
In message
<Pine.LNX.4.33.0306020545020.6552-100000(a)siconic.com>
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
Quite a bit.
The RM05 was the largest in a particular line of MASSBUS drives based
on CDC internals. I have not personally laid hands on an RM05, but
I have worked on the innards of a number of CDC drives and of several
DEC RM03s. The RM02 and RM03 are repackaged CDC 9762 drives. The
difference being rotation speed (the RM02 was sold with RH11 controllers,
while the faster RM03 went to VAXen and perhaps PDP-11/70s). The RM05
is a repackaged CDC 9766.
I don't have the capacity figures right here, but ISTR that a raw 9762
drive (on an SMD controller) was around 80MB, but as DEC used it in the
RM02/RM03 it was an effective 67MB. I know that the 160MB SMD Fuji drive
I have emulates two RM03s, at 67B each. There may be a similar thing
going on with the 9766 vs the RM05.
You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's possible that the packs
in question were also used with a PDP-11. Knowing a little about the
source might help extraction (although sticking an RM05/9766 on a
suitably equipped VAX under UNIX and using 'dd' could get you a disk
image file).
-ethan
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote:
> RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb
RK05's
What drive is required to read them?
Google revealed
http://www.proximity.com.au/~brian/comp/vax750.html. I'm
guessing the disk packs belonged to a DEC VAX system of some type or
other.
The URL I mentioned gives specs for someone's VAX 11/750 BTW. The RM05 is
supposedly a 250MB "Massbus" disk, if that means anything to any DEC
experts around here... 
6:51 a.m.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
The RM05 was the largest in a particular line of
MASSBUS drives based
on CDC internals.
Correct.
while the faster RM03 went to VAXen and perhaps
PDP-11/70s). The RM05
is a repackaged CDC 9766.
Afaik, just relabeled... unlike the RM02/3, they didnt
change the
05 [much].
You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's
possible that the packs
in question were also used with a PDP-11.
I doubt the RH11 is fast enough to handle
the RM05 blasting its data
onto the bus. Wasnt the RM03 the largest one to be runnable off the
RH11 controller?
Anyway... yeah, if you can find a VAX with Massbus controller and an
RM05 drive, you only need to grab a straight image off the packs, and
do any "smart" work on simulators such as SimH or Charon-VAX.
--f
8:01 a.m.
I don't have the capacity figures right here, but
ISTR that a raw 9762
drive (on an SMD controller) was around 80MB, but as DEC used it in the
RM02/RM03 it was an effective 67MB. I know that the 160MB SMD Fuji drive
I have emulates two RM03s, at 67B each. There may be a similar thing
going on with the 9766 vs the RM05.
I recommend the excellent document on DEC disks at Phil Budne's site:
http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/
9:32 a.m.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's
possible that the packs
in question were also used with a PDP-11. Knowing a little about the
source might help extraction (although sticking an RM05/9766 on a
suitably equipped VAX under UNIX and using 'dd' could get you a disk
image file).
I seem to recall there being some folklore about Atari running at least
part of their business on one or more VAXen, and at some point bartering
some VAX equipment in exchange for services.
There's some history on Atari's VAX systems here:
<http://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm>
-brian.
9:37 a.m.
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Commodore, too, used VAXen, (though probably because of their commercial
prominence at the time, rather than because of any sort of cross-
pollinization of personnel). Remember "cbmvax"?
-ethan
Knowing a little about the source might help
extraction...
I seem to recall there being some folklore about Atari running at least
part of their business on one or more VAXen, and at some point bartering
some VAX equipment in exchange for services. 
5:27 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 05:45:15AM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
A RM05 drive or a RK05 drive. ;-)
The more important question is what machine and OS was used to write
the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at
least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS
drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found
on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
RM05 packs are
300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's
Ok, my ignorance.
What drive is required to read them?
1:48 p.m.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote:
The more important question is what machine and OS was
used to write
the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at
least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS
drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found
on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines.
Knowing Atari, there tapes were most definitely written on a PDP-11
system.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
2:20 p.m.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Or a VAX, since there are numerous mentions of the VAX systems being
used by Atari. Of course, we're not talking about /tapes/, we're
talking about RM05 disk packs!
I just hope whoever ends up trying to read the disk packs knows what
they're doing. It'd be a real shame if they managed to crash the drives
and ruin the disk packs.
-brian.
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote:
The more
important question is what machine and OS was used to write
the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at
least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS
drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found
on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines.
Knowing Atari, there tapes were most definitely written on a PDP-11
system.
7754
days inactive
7754
days old
11 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠spies.com -
allain＠panix.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jkunz＠maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org -
vcf＠siconic.com -
waltje＠pdp11.nl