20 Jan
1999
20 Jan
'99
7:04 a.m.
<rant>
Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably
step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I
spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something
tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think
you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a
billboard.... (no offense)
</rant>
I certainly don't mind those posts when they fall into the context of a
discussion somewhat beyond 'Hey, everyone look...'
I can understand publishing/reflecting a sale post that didn't come from
public arena like ebay but I think anyone interested is capable of investing
their own time searching for the things they want to aquire from that venue.
Thanks, sorry
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
20 Jan
20 Jan
8:34 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
Mike wrote:
<rant>
Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably
step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I
spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something
tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think
you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a
billboard.... (no offense)
</rant>
Well as you might have guessed, I totally disagree with that viewpoint.
When I notice someone from the list bidding, I generally have passed on
putting it up here. ***BUT*** I have also seen a number of instances where
a given listmember was not willing to bid at the prices the items were going
for, and perhaps another listmember would have been willing to bid higher.
Cases like that are changing my mind as to letting listmembers know when I
find something *I* think is interesting.
The reasons for collecting have been already discussed on this list a number
of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most of us, this
is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it.
8:41 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
Mike wrote:
And of course if one spent one's time doing their homework and searching
the internet in places OTHER THAN ebay one would eventually turn up the
computers one wants at a price that would make the effort well worth it!
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
<rant>
Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably
step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I
spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something
tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think
you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a
billboard.... (no offense)
</rant>
Well as you might have guessed, I totally disagree with that viewpoint.
When I notice someone from the list bidding, I generally have passed on
putting it up here. ***BUT*** I have also seen a number of instances where
a given listmember was not willing to bid at the prices the items were going
for, and perhaps another listmember would have been willing to bid higher.
Cases like that are changing my mind as to letting listmembers know when I
find something *I* think is interesting.
The reasons for collecting have been already discussed on this list a number
of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most of us, this
is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it. 
8:55 a.m.
New subject: Is again re: PDP-8 on e-bay
I hate to bring this up again, but has anyone seen the present bid compared to the
start bid, and where the high bidder is from, Association for Computing Machinery
(acm.org)?? I must have missed the original thread on this but it seems a bit high
for a :kind of beat up and working condition unknown" machine. How "rare"
are the
PDP-8's Seems I see a lot of traffic about them here, they can't be *that* rare.
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
Mike wrote:
And of course if one spent one's time doing their homework and searching
the internet in places OTHER THAN ebay one would eventually turn up the
computers one wants at a price that would make the effort well worth it!
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
<rant>
Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably
step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I
spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something
tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think
you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a
billboard.... (no offense)
</rant>
Well as you might have guessed, I totally disagree with that viewpoint.
When I notice someone from the list bidding, I generally have passed on
putting it up here. ***BUT*** I have also seen a number of instances where
a given listmember was not willing to bid at the prices the items were going
for, and perhaps another listmember would have been willing to bid higher.
Cases like that are changing my mind as to letting listmembers know when I
find something *I* think is interesting.
The reasons for collecting have been already discussed on this list a number
of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most of us, this
is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it.
9:03 a.m.
New subject: C-64 Stuff
Right now, I have 3 non-working C-64s plus some parts with a few more (I
think at least two more) to be added. I hate throwing stuff like this out,
but when stuff starts encroaching on the kitchen table for more than a few
hours, my wife starts to object :)! Anyone who wants this stuff is welcome
to it for the cost of shipping.
9:16 a.m.
New subject: C-64 Stuff
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9:24 a.m.
New subject: C-64 Stuff
I would LOVE to pay shipping for your stuff. I need some parts badly :)
Still have it?
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 3:16 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: C-64 Stuff
::Right now, I have 3 non-working C-64s plus some parts with a few more (I
::think at least two more) to be added. I hate throwing stuff
like this out,
::but when stuff starts encroaching on the kitchen table for more
than a few
::hours, my wife starts to object :)! Anyone who wants this
stuff is welcome
::to it for the cost of shipping.
Do you have a MOS 8564 in that mess of chips? That's the VIC-II in the 128
series.
--
-------------------------- personal page:
http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser
Information Technology Services Database Programmer
Point Loma Nazarene University Fax:
+1 619 849 2581
ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone:
+1 619 849 2539
-- "The ants are my friends/They're blowing in the wind"
----------------------
11:48 a.m.
New subject: C-64 Stuff
Todd Osborne wrote:
I would LOVE to pay shipping for your stuff. I need some parts badly :)
Still have it?
In case I didn't say it clearly, the parts are parts of other C-64s that had
been disassembled. We can take it to email from here if you still want
them.
11:46 a.m.
New subject: C-64 Stuff
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
::Right now, I have 3 non-working C-64s plus some parts with a few more (I
::think at least two more) to be added. I hate throwing stuff like this out,
::but when stuff starts encroaching on the kitchen table for more than a few
::hours, my wife starts to object :)! Anyone who wants this stuff is welcome
::to it for the cost of shipping.
Do you have a MOS 8564 in that mess of chips? That's the VIC-II in the 128
series.
No, these are all C-64s although I do have some Vic-20s in the same shape I
haven't gotten to yet. I've noted the chip, and if I see one, I'll let you
know.
8:49 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
The reasons for collecting have been already discussed
on this list a
number of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most
of us, this is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it.
Agreed. And part of the fun is finding bargains, right? Let's assume
that you find most of your bargains at swap meets. How would you like it
if I decided it would be fun to visit the same swap meet you frequent, and
announce all of the bargains I find over a bull horn and cell phone?
I'm sure the sellers would love it, but my guess is that you might not
have the same amount of fun as you otherwise might.
-- Doug
9:12 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
Doug wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
I understand there is more than a little competition for that stuff at some
of the bay area swap meets and perhaps that is where your philosophy comes
from. I've missed some spectacular bargains at similar swap meets, but I
also know the stuff went to good homes. When I first started collecting, I
might have had the same philosophy, but time has taught me that the real
bargains come through my contacts, not ebay. Most people who know me
realize I am not in this thing for money but rather attempting to keep as
much as I can from hitting that great dumpster in the sky. A side benefit
is helping other collectors.
The reasons for collecting have been already
discussed on this list a
number of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most
of us, this is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it.
Agreed. And part of the fun is finding bargains, right? Let's assume
that you find most of your bargains at swap meets. How would you like it
if I decided it would be fun to visit the same swap meet you frequent, and
announce all of the bargains I find over a bull horn and cell phone?
I'm sure the sellers would love it, but my guess is that you might not
have the same amount of fun as you otherwise might.
9:34 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
I understand there is more than a little competition
for that stuff at some
of the bay area swap meets and perhaps that is where your philosophy comes
from. I've missed some spectacular bargains at similar swap meets, but I
also know the stuff went to good homes. When I first started collecting, I
might have had the same philosophy, but time has taught me that the real
bargains come through my contacts, not ebay. Most people who know me
realize I am not in this thing for money but rather attempting to keep as
much as I can from hitting that great dumpster in the sky. A side benefit
is helping other collectors.
That's what makes your actions even more ludicrous to those of us who do
buy stuff on ebay -- the guy at the swap meet with the bull horn is not
there to buy or sell, he just came to advertise using his bull horn!
Ebay advertises their service nationally, and they have a $10 billion
market cap to draw from. I don't think they need your help. If your only
concern is that every orphaned computer find a home, then I think the only
right thing for you to do is to make sure that every one of the contacts
from whom you get your old computers has the name and
phone number of
everybody on this list just in case you're out of town when they
call.
You expressed concern when you found that somebody was willing to pay a
higher price than a closing bid. Did you have that same concern when you
paid a few dollars for an Altair or an IBM 5100?
-- Doug
11:19 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
Doug wrote:
That's what makes your actions even more ludicrous to those of us who do
buy stuff on ebay -- the guy at the swap meet with the bull horn is not
there to buy or sell, he just came to advertise using his bull horn!
Ebay advertises their service nationally, and they have a $10 billion
market cap to draw from. I don't think they need your help. If your only
concern is that every orphaned computer find a home, then I think the only
right thing for you to do is to make sure that every one of the contacts
from whom you get your old computers has the name and phone number of
everybody on this list just in case you're out of town when they call.
Doug, we have a *major* difference of opinion here, and it is leading
nowhere. Sorry you are bent out of shape about it. Also just in case you
are not aware, personal contacts are something that take time, trust, and
common interests to develop.
You expressed concern when you found that somebody was
willing to pay a
higher price than a closing bid. Did you have that same concern when you
paid a few dollars for an Altair or an IBM 5100?
You need to remind me of when and what that concern was all about as nothing
comes to mind. As far as the 5100, when I found out what the IBM 5100 might
be worth, I offered it back to the person who gave it to me along with my
reasons. She told me to keep it anyway. Re: the Altairs, I got them back
when people were tossing them to clear out the garage; a totally different
situation.
11:40 a.m.
New subject: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote:
Marvin said:
<<
I have also seen a number of instances where a given listmember was not
willing to bid at the prices the items were going for, and perhaps another
listmember would have been willing to bid higher. Cases like that are
changing my mind as to letting listmembers know when I find something *I*
think is interesting.
Doug, we have a *major* difference of opinion here,
and it is leading
nowhere. Sorry you are bent out of shape about it. Also just in case you
are not aware, personal contacts are something that take time, trust, and
common interests to develop.
Stealthy bidding and bargain finding also takes time and patience, so I'll
agree to leave your contact list alone if you agree to stop advertsing
online auctions that I *may* be bidding in.
You expressed
concern when you found that somebody was willing to pay a
higher price than a closing bid. Did you have that same concern when you
paid a few dollars for an Altair or an IBM 5100?
You need to remind me of when and what that concern was all about as nothing
comes to mind. >
Re: the Altairs, I got them back when people were
tossing them to clear
out the garage; a totally different situation.
AFAICT, it's a different situation because *you* took possession of the
Altairs. But if you saw an Altair going for a couple of bucks on ebay in
which you weren't a bidder, I suspect you would try to "fix" that
situation.
-- Doug
10:54 a.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
<rant>
[edited out for brevity]
</rant>
Get OVER it guys and gals. Computers have developed collector value, the
price will only go up until the demand is satisfied. Take a look at the
number of zillionaire engineers created in the Bay Area and Redmond area
alone over the last 5 years. These geeks are seriously into their retro
throes and they have money to satisfy their urges.
Look at it on the bright side, when you find a PDP-8 sitting in a dumpster
in boston you can see, "WOW! Not only is this really cool, its worth some
real bux! Boy is today my lucky day." Used to be it was just a cool toy.
Its perfectly understandable to be depressed over the inevitable inflation
given the collectible value but that is like a Van Gogh owner complaining
that you can't buy them for $20 anymore. However, its a bit rude to call
people names because they "let some people know" of an available system.
--Chuck
11:08 a.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
<rant>
[edited out for brevity]
</rant>
Get OVER it guys and gals. Computers have developed collector value, the
price will only go up until the demand is satisfied. Take a look at the
number of zillionaire engineers created in the Bay Area and Redmond area
alone over the last 5 years. These geeks are seriously into their retro
throes and they have money to satisfy their urges.
[edited out for brevity]
Hmm.. Now maybe someone will finally offer me some serious cash for a
Sun 1/100U ... Only about 700 were ever made, before Sun Microsystems
started making the Sun 2 series...
Though personally I'd like to see one on display in a real computer
museum someday...
-Lawrence LeMay
11:12 a.m.
New subject: Sun 1 (was Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
Hmm.. Now maybe someone will finally offer me some
serious cash for a
Sun 1/100U ... Only about 700 were ever made, before Sun Microsystems
started making the Sun 2 series...
Oh, me me!
Though personally I'd like to see one on display
in a real computer
museum someday...
TCM/HC has the desktop version, but I don't remember if they have the
rackmount version.
-- Doug
11:24 a.m.
New subject: Sun 1 (was Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
This is the desktop version. And just to make you drool... I have THREE
of them.. Plus a monitor that would go with the rackmount version
(but I dont have the rackmount version, could have had it if I had a
bigger apartment).
And about CBI (Charles Babage Institute)... I used to go over there
last year to work on their printers and such. I realy should go
over there sometime and see what they have in the way of Terak
documentation.
-Lawrence LeMay
Hmm.. Now maybe someone will finally offer me
some serious cash for a
Sun 1/100U ... Only about 700 were ever made, before Sun Microsystems
started making the Sun 2 series...
Oh, me me!
Though personally I'd like to see one on
display in a real computer
museum someday...
TCM/HC has the desktop version, but I don't remember if they have the
rackmount version.
-- Doug
11:36 a.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
Hmm.. Now maybe someone will finally offer me some
serious cash for a
Sun 1/100U ... Only about 700 were ever made, before Sun Microsystems
started making the Sun 2 series...
Easily as much as an Altair of today in 5 years or so. In spite of their
being second (I know I worked their nearly 10 years) they are "perceived"
as being the inventor of the workstation. (Apollo had that distinction)
They certainly made more money of UNIX systems than any other company in
history. Given their current influence in the sphere of the Internet and
the impact of the Internet on society and the number of engineers who "cut
their teeth" on Sun machines who will be flush with cash, it would not
suprise me in the least if you could get $10,000 for it in 5 to 7 years.
(Others might tell you that selling it for more than $50 + postage is a
crime against nature but don't listen to 'em)
--Chuck
11:52 a.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Chuck McManis wrote:
their teeth" on Sun machines who will be flush
with cash, it would not
suprise me in the least if you could get $10,000 for it in 5 to 7 years.
(Others might tell you that selling it for more than $50 + postage is a
crime against nature but don't listen to 'em)
Ack! Don't say that!
Listen to the reasonable people: $50 + postage is more than fair :)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
12:28 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
Hmm.. Now maybe
someone will finally offer me some serious cash for a
Sun 1/100U ... Only about 700 were ever made, before Sun Microsystems
started making the Sun 2 series...
Easily as much as an Altair of today in 5 years or so. In spite of their
being second (I know I worked their nearly 10 years) they are "perceived"
as being the inventor of the workstation. (Apollo had that distinction)
They certainly made more money of UNIX systems than any other company in
history. Given their current influence in the sphere of the Internet and
the impact of the Internet on society and the number of engineers who "cut
their teeth" on Sun machines who will be flush with cash, it would not
suprise me in the least if you could get $10,000 for it in 5 to 7 years.
(Others might tell you that selling it for more than $50 + postage is a
crime against nature but don't listen to 'em)
12:38 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
Hmm, looks like now I need to buy some sort of cloth
covering for these,
since they're become too valuable. My Teraks arent suddenly worth gold
too, are they? (even though they were very historically significant).
Neither Suns nor Teraks are worth much because they never penetrated the
personal space the way many micros did. However, since Chuck said that
Apollo produced the first workstations and Sun produced the second batch,
I'm really curious to find where he positions the Terak, PERQ, Star, Alto,
etc.
-- Doug
1:50 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
At 06:38 PM 1/20/99 -0500, Doug wrote:
Neither Suns nor Teraks are worth much because they
never penetrated the
personal space the way many micros did.
And the PDP-8 penetrated the personal space? How about the KL-10? The point
I'm trying to make is that while much collecting is driven by nostalgia for
the computers we could have owned when we were younger, many of us forgo
trying to own the computer we learned to program on if it was a mainframe.
However the people who came after me had Sun workstations at college (at
least at my alma mater USC where the Sun's were replacing the KL as I was
leaving). Anyway, those people will be reaching their earning/disposable
income zeniths in about 5 years. That will spike the value of older Sun
machines.
However, since Chuck said that
Apollo produced the first workstations and Sun produced the second batch,
I'm really curious to find where he positions the Terak, PERQ, Star, Alto,
etc.
I'm not familar with the Terak and PERQ but I am intimately familiar with
the Star and the Alto. My wife was the Network Services Architect for
Xeroxes Office Systems Business Unit during the Star's heyday. The fact was
that the Star was sold as a dedicated word processor. A visual typewriter
if you will on the same price sheet as the memory writers I believe. Now
tahoe (later named the Xerox Development Environment (XDE)) ran on
Dandelions (aka the 8010 series) but it wasn't sold to third parties. Later
during the Daybreak years Mesa (waayy cool language BTW) was ported to Suns
and Intel architectures. I don't believe the Alto ever escaped PARC as more
than a research tool for some folks.
The "PERQ page" asserts the claim to first graphics workstation, I'm sure
Tony has some feelings about this. In the US at least Apollo was always
claiming to have "invented" the graphics workstation (defined as a general
purpose computer whose "console" consisted of a bitmapped display.) At
about the same time CMU defined something called a "3M" machine which was 1
million pixels, 1 million instructions/sec, and 1 million words (bytes) of
memory.
--Chuck
2:07 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Chuck McManis wrote:
I'm not familar with the Terak and PERQ but I am
intimately familiar with
the Star and the Alto. My wife was the Network Services Architect for
Xeroxes Office Systems Business Unit during the Star's heyday. The fact was
that the Star was sold as a dedicated word processor. A visual typewriter
if you will on the same price sheet as the memory writers I believe. Now
Yes, Xerox is famous for mismarketing, but are you saying that a
mouse-driven bitmapped networked 8010 isn't a workstation because of where
it was on a price sheet?
tahoe (later named the Xerox Development Environment
(XDE)) ran on
Dandelions (aka the 8010 series) but it wasn't sold to third parties.
Later during the Daybreak years Mesa (waayy cool language BTW) was
ported to Suns and Intel architectures. I don't believe the Alto ever
escaped PARC as more than a research tool for some folks.
I forget the number: either 1000 or 2000 Altos were made and "seeded"
various universities. Probably made a bigger dent than the Sun 1, and
much earlier.
The "PERQ page" asserts the claim to first
graphics workstation, I'm sure
Probably true if you ignore the Alto. And the Terak was a PDP-11/03 with
a bitmapped display around 1979/1980 IIRC. They were quite popular at
UCSD and UCI, at least.
-- Doug
2:36 p.m.
New subject: Classic Workstations (was Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay)
At 08:07 PM 1/20/99 -0500, Doug wrote:
Yes, Xerox is famous for mismarketing, but are you
saying that a
mouse-driven bitmapped networked 8010 isn't a workstation because of where
it was on a price sheet?
No, I'm saying that the mouse-driven bitmapped networked 8010 wasn't a
workstation because it was never sold, or converted as such. Just for
reference, when I use the term "Workstation" my definition is as follows:
Megapixel+ bitmapped display is primary interface device.
General purpose OS.
Software development is hosted on the machine.
1+ Megabytes of RAM
1+ MIPs execution speed.
This is not the definition that is applied today (it tends to track Sun,
HP, and IBM's offerings as the definition)
I forget the number: either 1000 or 2000 Altos were
made and "seeded"
various universities. Probably made a bigger dent than the Sun 1, and
much earlier.
We differ in our analysis of the "dent."
Probably true if you ignore the Alto. And the Terak
was a PDP-11/03 with
a bitmapped display around 1979/1980 IIRC. They were quite popular at
UCSD and UCI, at least.
Apollo came out with their box in 1980 as well I believe.
--Chuck
2:47 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
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21 Jan
21 Jan
3:46 a.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
At 05:28 PM 1/20/99 -0600, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
Hmm, looks like now I need to buy some sort of cloth covering for these,
since they're become too valuable. My Teraks arent suddenly worth gold
too, are they? (even though they were very historically significant).
Not that I know. :-) There's still only a small handful of people
I know who have them. I know a guy who has a stash of six or seven,
including color models, in a shack up in the mountains of the West.
I've got between four and six 8510/a, including a 10 meg hard disk.
Price is always a matter between buyer and seller - and who's selling?
I think I paid $1 for my last Terak, from the UW surplus sale.
At 08:07 PM 1/20/99 -0500, Doug wrote:
And the Terak was a PDP-11/03 with
a bitmapped display around 1979/1980 IIRC. They were quite popular at
UCSD and UCI, at least.
I can't find my reference at the moment, but I think the founders
told me they built the first Teraks in 1976. The first few years
weren't megapixel machines, though. The easily customizable font
and graphics abilities of the Terak lent itself to the editing of
Russian, Hebrew and Chinese. It also had CAD packages long before
they landed on PCs.
- John
20 Jan
20 Jan
2:10 p.m.
New subject: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu -
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dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
dogas＠leading.net -
doug＠blinkenlights.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
marvin＠rain.org -
rhblake＠bigfoot.com -
todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com