10 Aug
2012
10 Aug
'12
7:41 a.m.
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so it's "all your fault!"
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
10 Aug
10 Aug
7:49 a.m.
New subject: [Larryniven-l] Found a rs6000 43p
On Friday 10 August 2012 12:41:23 John Many Jars wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
You are probably in an EFI shell. I am afraid your hard drive has failed.
You'll need to replace it.
I must say, that is a cool thing to have in a closet.
Regards
Oliver
8:51 a.m.
On 10/08/12 7:41 AM, John Many Jars wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
Oooh, I like these little boxes. I have a similar one. Don't bin it;
it's probably fixable.
--T
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so it's "all your fault!"
9:42 a.m.
On 10 Aug 2012, at 12:41, John Many Jars wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
Nice little RS/6000s - my friends has one. I have a 7046-B50 which I believe is
effectively a cluster node server version of the same architecture. Makes a lot better use
of a 604e than Apple ever did ;)
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops
you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
My B50 sulks if the NVRAM battery dies (if it's been sat in your closet then it likely
is dead). It forgets what device to boot from and all sorts and most often locks up on
boot.
At that screen you should be able to hold down a key, something like F2 or something to
access the SMS menu. That will allow you to access a boot device menu and reset it.
Service Manual: http://www.g8wrb.org/useful-stuff/IBM/RS-6000/7043-43P-Series/380512.pdf
All he answers are in there in typically cryptic IBM style :)
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like
a list of devices
Yup, that'll be the OpenFirmware prompt. It likely didn't find a boot device or
the boot device failed and it dropped out to the OFW prompt to allow you to poke it.
Should I bin it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone
point me in the
right direction?
Absolutely not. RS/6000s (and especially 43Ps) are like tanks. I only turn my B50 on twice
a year at best yet it still works like a charm (unless I have to fit yet another NVRAM
battery ;) )
Totally fixable. At worst it might need a new hard drive. IIRC the 43p used 68-pin SCSI
LVD drives so that shouldn't be SO hard to fix.
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so
it's "all your fault!"
k-pthooey. CDE.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
12:51 p.m.
On 08/10/2012 09:59 AM, James wrote:
You can always use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well the
appropriate one for your situation)
Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a 68 pin machine means
you slow down and lose the ID range, but using a 68 pin drive in a 50
pin machine is fine long as you keep the ID from 0-6.
Totally
fixable. At worst it might need a new hard drive. IIRC the 43p
used 68-pin SCSI LVD
drives so that shouldn't be SO hard to fix.
Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
12:55 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com> wrote:
You can always use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well the
appropriate one for your situation)
Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a 68 pin machine means
you slow down and lose the ID range, but using a 68 pin drive in a 50
pin machine is fine long as you keep the ID from 0-6.
I have a 68-pin drive in my MicroVAX II. It works pretty well.
1:09 p.m.
IIRC the 43p
used 68-pin SCSI LVD drives so that shouldn't be SO
hard to fix. Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
You can always
use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well
the appropriate one for your situation) Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a 68
pin machine
means you slow down and lose the ID range,
Depends. If you do it right, you slow down only when using the narrow
drive(s); wide devices on the same bus can run at full wide speed - and
wide devices can sit on IDs 8-15; it's only the narrow devices that are
confined to the narrow device range.
If you do it right, of course. In many cases it's relatively easy to
do it wrong and end up with everything running narrow.
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1:48 p.m.
On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Mouse wrote:
I assume that's the adapter the URL makes it sound like? Maybe. Some
machines don't have enough mechanical space to insert an adapter.
If wide SCSI devices are on high IDs, won't they be unable to communicate
with narrow devices on the same bus? It has been awhile since I touched
this stuff so my memory may be a little foggy here.
IIRC the 43p used 68-pin SCSI LVD drives so that
shouldn't be SO
hard to fix. Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
You can always
use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well
the appropriate one for your situation) Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a
68 pin machine
means you slow down and lose the ID range,
Depends. If you do it right, you slow down only when using the narrow
drive(s); wide devices on the same bus can run at full wide speed - and
wide devices can sit on IDs 8-15; it's only the narrow devices that are
confined to the narrow device range.
If you do it right, of course. In many cases it's relatively easy to
do it wrong and end up with everything running narrow.
2:42 p.m.
[...wide and narrow on the same bus...]
If you
do it right, [...] 
4:08 p.m.
I run these systems (have about 8) with the SCA adapters. Space is not an issue.
Mouse <mouse at rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
I assume that's the adapter the URL makes it sound like? Maybe. Some
machines don't have enough mechanical space to insert an adapter.
-- Colin
IIRC the 43p used 68-pin SCSI LVD drives so that
shouldn't be SO
hard to fix. Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
You can always
use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well
the appropriate one for your situation) Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a
68 pin machine
means you slow down and lose the ID range,
Depends. If you do it right, you slow down only when using the narrow
drive(s); wide devices on the same bus can run at full wide speed - and
wide devices can sit on IDs 8-15; it's only the narrow devices that are
confined to the narrow device range.
If you do it right, of course. In many cases it's relatively easy to
do it wrong and end up with everything running narrow.
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/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B 
1:18 p.m.
On Aug 10, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Ray Arachelian wrote:
On 08/10/2012 09:59 AM, James wrote:
You can always use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well the
appropriate one for your situation)
Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a 68 pin machine means
you slow down and lose the ID range, but using a 68 pin drive in a 50
pin machine is fine long as you keep the ID from 0-6.
They are nicely cross-compatible, but it is worth noting that the
fast/wide LVD (low-voltage differential) drives are totally
incompatible with anything else, much like the HVD is incompatible
with single-ended signaling. Otherwise, 68-pin and 50-pin are
pretty much interworkable, and the 80-pin SCA is just a hot-swap
socket with power pins in it.
Someone more versed in SCSI than I might be able to answer this a
little better, though: what's the major difference between SCA and
SCA2? I've found scant information on it, but I have a feeling
it's what's keeping my SCA adaptor from working with my SCA disks
(one of them is SCA2, and I can't remember which).
- Dave
Totally
fixable. At worst it might need a new hard drive. IIRC the 43p
used 68-pin SCSI LVD
drives so that shouldn't be SO hard to fix.
Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
1:49 p.m.
On 10 Aug 2012, at 18:18, David Riley wrote:
They are nicely cross-compatible, but it is worth
noting that the
fast/wide LVD (low-voltage differential) drives are totally
incompatible with anything else, much like the HVD is incompatible
with single-ended signaling. Otherwise, 68-pin and 50-pin are
pretty much interworkable, and the 80-pin SCA is just a hot-swap
socket with power pins in it.
It depends on the drive. I've used LVDs on SE setups, they work if you
get the termination right. Some even have a jumper to force SE mode.
Someone more versed in SCSI than I might be able to
answer this a
little better, though: what's the major difference between SCA and
SCA2? I've found scant information on it, but I have a feeling
it's what's keeping my SCA adaptor from working with my SCA disks
(one of them is SCA2, and I can't remember which).
Is SCA2 Fibre Channel SCA (much narrower connector) or am I way off?
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
1:52 p.m.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think this machine will be for
parts for the others that work that I'm going to get... by saving them
from the scrap at the place I used to work.
I phoned my friend who still works there... he's happy for me to take
a few, as they have to pay to get them taken away... (;
On 10 August 2012 18:18, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 10, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Ray Arachelian wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
On 08/10/2012 09:59 AM, James wrote:
You can always use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/SCA-80-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER/dp/B0058V1UWS (well the
appropriate one for your situation)
Off the top of my head: using a 50 pin drive on a 68 pin machine means
you slow down and lose the ID range, but using a 68 pin drive in a 50
pin machine is fine long as you keep the ID from 0-6.
They are nicely cross-compatible, but it is worth noting that the
fast/wide LVD (low-voltage differential) drives are totally
incompatible with anything else, much like the HVD is incompatible
with single-ended signaling. Otherwise, 68-pin and 50-pin are
pretty much interworkable, and the 80-pin SCA is just a hot-swap
socket with power pins in it.
Someone more versed in SCSI than I might be able to answer this a
little better, though: what's the major difference between SCA and
SCA2? I've found scant information on it, but I have a feeling
it's what's keeping my SCA adaptor from working with my SCA disks
(one of them is SCA2, and I can't remember which).
- Dave
Totally
fixable. At worst it might need a new hard drive. IIRC the 43p
used 68-pin SCSI LVD
drives so that shouldn't be SO hard to fix.
Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin drive.
1:54 p.m.
Do IBM do AIX hobby licenses? Hmmm.... I don't have any media for the
dead machine. I do have a mysterious backup tape, but I bet you need
the OS working to install that.
On 10 August 2012 18:18, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
4:14 p.m.
The system backup (mksysb) should be restorable without a base image. Check the man page
for permutations. Other types of file backup won't work. As for AIX licenses, I'd
like to hear a formal pronouncement on this. I believe the position, last time I
inquired, was having the hardware implied a license but not maintenance. If you
'acquire' the appropriate media, I think you are alright to run it. Basically
4.1.x to 5.3.x on most 43Ps, but especially the black ones. I'm sure someone can jump
up and call me a fibber on this one. So check my facts.
John Many Jars <john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
Do IBM do AIX hobby licenses? Hmmm.... I don't
have any media for the
dead machine. I do have a mysterious backup tape, but I bet you need
the OS working to install that.
On 10 August 2012 18:18, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
-- Colin
4:30 p.m.
Do IBM do AIX hobby licenses?
In general, the AIX license comes with the machine, so any media set that
is compatible will do. My POWER6 uses bought-off-eBay AIX 6.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do make a great TV movie. ----------
11 Aug
11 Aug
5:59 p.m.
On 8/10/12 12:54 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
Do IBM do AIX hobby licenses? Hmmm.... I don't
have any media for the
dead machine. I do have a mysterious backup tape, but I bet you need
the OS working to install that.
BAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Yes, at least for AIX v4.3. I am the only person I know of to
actually *get* that license from IBM and run it. It took 2 weeks and
probably 25 hours on the phone....
IBM historically has a "don't wanna know" attitude toward private,
non-commercial use of AIX. On partitioned systems running it for free a
little harder to do, but the bottom line is that IBM has *NO* mechanism
for selling (or providing in any way) AIX to private individuals.
Ask Cameron. :)
Doc
6:08 p.m.
Do IBM do AIX
hobby licenses? Hmmm.... I don't have any media for the
dead machine. I do have a mysterious backup tape, but I bet you need
the OS working to install that.
BAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Yes, at least for AIX v4.3. I am the only person I know of to
actually *get* that license from IBM and run it. It took 2 weeks and
probably 25 hours on the phone....
IBM historically has a "don't wanna know" attitude toward private,
non-commercial use of AIX. On partitioned systems running it for free a
little harder to do, but the bottom line is that IBM has *NO* mechanism
for selling (or providing in any way) AIX to private individuals.
Ask Cameron. :)
13 Aug
13 Aug
2:56 a.m.
On 11 Aug 2012, at 23:08, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Oh gawd, yes. We, the private AIX non-corp users,
aren't worth IBM's white-
shirt-and-sincere-tie time. I went around and around fruitlessly for weeks
to buy hardware and media from them. Just take my money, I said!
You can't write company songs about selling to a single Joe Bloggs... right?
So I gave up and bought both the server and later the
AIX media secondhand.
The only "new" AIX I ever got was with my Apple Network Server. Otherwise, I
just have eBay media sets.
A bunch of us lucked out in the UK and found a guy selling cheap (talking 200 GBP) POWER5
9111-285s on eBay... otherwise I'd never have a new one either :) I think I know about
6 people that all bought one.
Similarly I have 4.3.3, 5.3 and 7.1 and all are surplus media sets bought as
new-not-required from eBay.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
10 Aug
10 Aug
2:04 p.m.
They are nicely cross-compatible, but it is worth
noting that the
fast/wide LVD (low-voltage differential) drives are totally
incompatible with anything else,
In my experience, LVD drives always fall back to single-ended if
connected to a single-ended SCSI bus. Perhaps this is just an artifact
of the LVD drives I've dealt with.
I have noted they have always had a "force single ended" jumper....
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1:19 p.m.
I should revise my previous statement: I believe there are
*some* LVDS drives/controllers that will behave nicely with
single-ended SCSI. I understand it's somewhat wide-spread,
but I would be cautious.
- Dave
1 p.m.
Hey guys - please ignore both of my previous thread replies. Somehow, my
mind mixed up the 43p with an HP pizza box machine (because I happen to have
one of each sitting right next to each other). So yeah, I must have sounded
like an idiot, and I'm sure the posted noting the 68-pin drives is correct.
Oh, and don't ask me for HP-UX media to run on it. J One of those mornings
I guess.
James
From: James [mailto:james at slor.net]
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 9:59 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Found a rs6000 43p
Depends on the model. Mine uses the 50-pin
drive.
Totally fixable. At worst it might need a new hard
drive. IIRC the 43p
used 68-pin SCSI LVD drives so that shouldn't be SO hard to
fix.
9:45 a.m.
If you want an HP-UX 10.20 install CD (what I run on mine) to try with it,
drop me a direct line.
On Aug 10, 2012 7:45 AM, "John Many Jars" <john at
yoyodyne-propulsion.net>
wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so it's "all your fault!"
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
9:29 p.m.
> If you want an HP-UX 10.20 install CD (what I run
on mine) to try with
> it, drop me a direct line.
If you're able to run HP-UX on IBM Risc
architecture, that's quite a
trick!
Yeah, yeah. I was pretty much a dolt today, but at least the day's over
now. I've tried to compensate by killing some brain cells (just the bad
ones) this afternoon. :)
9:39 p.m.
On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, James wrote:
Given the week I've had, I can empathize.
--
> If you
want an HP-UX 10.20 install CD (what I run on mine) to try with
> it, drop me a direct line.
If you're able to run HP-UX on IBM Risc
architecture, that's quite a
trick!
Yeah, yeah. I was pretty much a dolt today, but at least the day's over
now. I've tried to compensate by killing some brain cells (just the bad
ones) this afternoon. :)
9:45 a.m.
On 8/10/12 6:41 AM, John Many Jars wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so it's "all your fault!"
"43P" covers a world of IBM sins....
Seriously, from a 120MHz[1] PReP CPU to a 333MHz CHRP, several models
were designated 43P. They all had miserably slow I/O but the CHRP
models will run AIX v5.x.
The PReP models need a bootable floppy disk to get into the firmware.
Somewhere on the box will be a model number like 7043-43P. That'll
tell us what you got.
In any case, if you're willing to gamble a couple of cubic feet of
space and some time on a partially-functional project, they're decent
systems and it's probably worth sratching it.
Doc
[1] ISTR there was a 100MHz model but I've never heard of one in the wild
10:42 a.m.
On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:41:23 +0100
John Many Jars <john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops
you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
There are several different variants of 43P. This one seems to be
a
43P-150 because you can type "ls" and get a divice tree. This sounds
like the OpenFirmWare of a CHRP machine. The enclosure of the machine
should be black?
You have a quite capable PPC machine there. You could reinstall AIX.
Instalation media should be obtainable. An other option is to install
NetBSD. Maybe it drops to OFW just because autoboot is disabled. Try to
type "boot" at the OFW prompt and see..
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
11:49 a.m.
John,
A 43P should have an LED display. Whatever code it stops on should be reference. Sounds
like you need to check the disk connections and possibly pop in a replacement disk.
John Many Jars <john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
...in a closet here. They used to have a bunch of
these were I used
to work, as a CAD system.
This one has AIX on it... it fails bootup and drops you to some sort
of prompt right after it plays it's tune (with the little speaker
icon).
You can type ls at the prompt and gets what looks like a list of
devices.
Should I bit it, or is it worth trying to fix? Anyone point me in the
right direction?
I only dug it out because of the CDE thread, so it's "all your fault!"
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
-- Colin
4327
days inactive
4330
days old
29 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
colineby＠isallthat.com -
doc＠vaxen.net -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
james＠slor.net -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net -
jon＠jonworld.com -
md.benson＠gmail.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
oneukum＠suse.de -
ray＠arachelian.com -
snhirsch＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
tothwolf＠concentric.net