On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: No idea as to the fault (heck, it's not in front of me with a logic analyser to hand), but I think I can explain that. There is a pair of DIP switches on the controller board (the upper board in the RX02 itself, the one that hinges up). Three of the 4 settings are used : RX02 (which is the one you want, it is an RX02 drive to link to an RX211 or RXV21 interface), RX01 (turns the drive into a single- density-only RX01-a-like to link to an RX11 or RXV11) and 'PDP8' which is used to link to an RX8e for Omnibus PDP8 machines. The switch settings are in one of the manuals, you should check them. -tony

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Aaron Jackson <aaron at aaronsplace.co.uk> wrote: In the photo, I think S1 is on and S2 is off. Check them with an ohmmeter if in doubt! -tony

To isolate the problem further, try to see if any of the errors follow the media as you move them between drives. If the same errors occur on both drives, regardless of media then the RX02 system board or perhaps the Qbus controller are at fault. The field maintenance prints should allow you to trace the fault down a bit further, with or w/o a logic analyzer. How many different types of errors do you see? Jerry

On Dec 8, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Aaron Jackson <aaron at aaronsplace.co.uk> wrote: = 3) Try and contrast to the other drive as previously covered. This will help rule out a few things and provide some better direction.

On Dec 8, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Aaron Jackson <aaron at aaronsplace.co.uk> wrote: When you have many errors it can be hard to separate the primary fault(s) from the knock-on errors. The M7745/M7744 or Media Errors dominate the entries. 1) Try to verify the media is a DEC 8 Inch formatted RX02 or RX01 if you do not know the source of the the disks. The disk should have only 1 hole punched for index on the media itself. Even if it is a DEC Brand, there?s still possibility that the media has been exposed to strong magnetic fields. I have not seen much natural bit-rot on my floppy media, but YMMV. If could find someone local with RX02 drives to confirm your media, that would also help rule out some things. Many third party drives and controllers that were DEC compatible also had the ability to do a low level format of media, something the native RX02 did not. So if the media type is correct, but the format is not, they may be salvageable (with complete loss of original data). 2) Check the connections between the drives and controllers. Gently clean contacts, especially anything gold plated. Getting clean signals from the floppies is critical if the RW electronics are to function. 3) Try and contrast to the other drive as previously covered. This will help rule out a few things and provide some better direction. Jerry

Well, would you believe it. It was the disks after all. I can't believe they are all bad!

On 12/16/2017 10:43 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: I suspect that they weren't formatted to the 3740 spec (26/128 FM). ISTR that the RX02 doesn't have formatting abilities. The other possibility is that the disks were DS rather than SS (different index aperture position). --Chuck

On Dec 16, 2017, at 2:28 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I just checked all of them in RT-11, out of 12 floppies, two of them were bad, or at least I am unable to perform dir in RT-11. My source of confusion comes from both A) not being able to boot from any of them, and B) not being able to dump them using vtserver. The ones labelled RT-11 don't actually have RT-11 on them, just some random files, and these were the ones I had tried to boot from. I'm not sure why vtserver doesn't seem to work though. I have Kermit in RT-11, is there a way to dump the other drive over this? I would like to put LSI Unix on one of the floppies, can this be done with Kermit too? While on the topic of vtserver, it also doesn't seem to like my RL02 drive. If I try to write to it or dump a cartridge, it tells me that it was unable to read the labelsector. About the thing vtserver has done is launch itself over odt. RT-11 is unable to list the files on the RL02 drive, but maybe they are UNIX or maybe they are dead packs... Thanks, Aaron. systems_glitch via cctalk writes: -- Aaron Jackson PhD Student, Computer Vision Laboratory, Uni of Nottingham http://aaronsplace.co.uk

If you have a system that can create/format SSSD (base RX01 media format) RT11 can reformat that as RX02. Of the top of my hear the command is INIT and you specify the drive and /double. It cannot format a blank disk but it can set a RX01 format to double density. Note a RX02 on a PDP-11 will not boot RT11 if it has the RX01 boot drive in place, you must have the RX02 driver built into the boot. Whenever you have a disk fail its advisable to check the heads for crud buildup (on RX01, RX02, or RX33 and RX23) as sometimes the binder on the media goes to goo and coats the head. If that happens the next good disk can have the media gouged off. Been there done that. I always test new media (dir /bad) on drive 2 so if it fails the system still boots and likeliness of munging the boot media is lower. I use my S100 CP/M crate for format blanks for RX01 and using R11CPM I can copy files between the two system (sneakerware). To read a RX02 formatted disk you must have a RX02 or one of the functional equivalents like a DSD or Emulex. PCs cannot without a special board. A slick trick for Qbus 11s is install a RQDX2/3 and put a RX33 or RX23 drive on that as the formats they use are PC readable at the base ODS. I managed to get a few RQDX3s just for that in the various Qbus 11s I have. Even if you do not have a MFM hard disk for the RQDX2/3 is a good choice for floppies and it can format media. It also can store more on the media. Allison On 12/16/2017 04:21 PM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: > Glad to hear that you cleared that up. > > For the other floppies. > > 1) DUMP/TERM/RAD50/END:0 DY1: > If you share the listing that will give us some hints as to the OS on the floppies. > > 2) DIR/BAD DY1: > will do a bad block scan to see if can read all of the blocks on the media. It > does not require an RT11 directory, despite the command name. It uses > the utility DUP.SAV with the K option, not DIR.SAV You will hear the floppy > reset if it sees a bad spot as it attempts a retry. The number of retries > is configurable via a SET command. > > For files with an RT11 Directory, DIR/BAD/FILES will include the file name > of files affected by unreadable blocks. > > You can do the same with the RL02 Drives. > > Jerry > >> On Dec 16, 2017, at 2:28 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> I just checked all of them in RT-11, out of 12 floppies, two of them >> were bad, or at least I am unable to perform dir in RT-11. >> >> My source of confusion comes from both A) not being able to boot from >> any of them, and B) not being able to dump them using vtserver. The ones >> labelled RT-11 don't actually have RT-11 on them, just some random >> files, and these were the ones I had tried to boot from. >> >> I'm not sure why vtserver doesn't seem to work though. I have Kermit in >> RT-11, is there a way to dump the other drive over this? I would like to >> put LSI Unix on one of the floppies, can this be done with Kermit too? >> >> While on the topic of vtserver, it also doesn't seem to like my RL02 >> drive. If I try to write to it or dump a cartridge, it tells me that it >> was unable to read the labelsector. About the thing vtserver has done is >> launch itself over odt. >> >> RT-11 is unable to list the files on the RL02 drive, but maybe they are >> UNIX or maybe they are dead packs... >> >> Thanks, >> Aaron. >> >> >> systems_glitch via cctalk writes: >> >>> We've gotten around the formatting issue by formatting SSSD using ImageDisk >>> on a regular PC (with a floppy controller that supports single density/FM, >>> of course). If you want RX02 media there's an XXDP routine to upconvert >>> RX01s to RX02s. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Jonathan >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < >>> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On 12/16/2017 10:43 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2017, Aaron Jackson via cctalk wrote: >>>>>> Well, would you believe it. It was the disks after all. I can't believe >>>>>> they are all bad! >>>>> I can believe it. >>>>> Were they "bad"? >>>>> Or just not what they were labelled as being? >>>> I suspect that they weren't formatted to the 3740 spec (26/128 FM). >>>> ISTR that the RX02 doesn't have formatting abilities. >>>> >>>> The other possibility is that the disks were DS rather than SS >>>> (different index aperture position). >>>> >>>> --Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> Aaron Jackson >> PhD Student, Computer Vision Laboratory, Uni of Nottingham >> http://aaronsplace.co.uk > > >

So, some of us do not trust the labels on disks.