23 Apr
1998
23 Apr
'98
12:27 p.m.
I'm sure this is not even an original thought, but the Year 2000 presents
a special opportunity for collectors like us.
Think of all the companies who are right now weighing whether or not those
old mainframes that have been chugging away in their data centers for
years, perhaps even decades, are worth one more upgrade to support 4-digit
years or whether it would make more sense to finally take the painful
route of scrapping their old iron and moving on to PCs or AS400s or
whatnot. I predict a tremendous flood of old mainframe and mini hardware
coming to market like so many cattle which will only peak on December 31,
1999.
This is a once in a millennium opportunity! So make sure you've got
plenty of space and plenty of petty cash to throw around cuz its gonna be
easy pickins.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/23/98]
23 Apr
23 Apr
5:05 p.m.
At 09:27 4/23/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
I'm sure this is not even an original thought, but
the Year 2000 presents
a special opportunity for collectors like us.
See ANALYTICAL ENGINE Volume 1, Number 2, October 1993 ;-) If we think
we've got a space crisis NOW....
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
10:30 p.m.
Kip Crosby wrote:
At 09:27 4/23/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
Damn, I can't fit the fewkin' things through the doors of this damned
house, let alone find enough unflooded (Spring happens) floor space
in this basement. I don't concentrate on micros _only_ because I got
my (computing, not collecting) start with a TRS-80 before it was
called the Model 1 -- this house has narrow doorways and steep steps.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
I'm sure this is not even an original thought,
but the Year 2000 presents
a special opportunity for collectors like us.
See ANALYTICAL ENGINE Volume 1, Number 2, October 1993 ;-) If we think
we've got a space crisis NOW.... 
24 Apr
24 Apr
11:08 a.m.
Kip, is that magazine online anywhere? I haven't heard of it myself.
Sounds like you are refering us to a rather interesting read!
Hmmm... And Sam, you have an interesting thought. But I wonder actually how
many old systems you refer to are actually are still in use?
Anybody who's got a better handle on the present population of minis and
mainframes still in service want to give an opinion on this?
One drawback for me (maybe others here too): my wife will kill me if I drag
home a second or third big-iron machine ;-) We just moved into a new house
and I can say for sure that we are only _half-moved_ at the moment. The
other stuff yet to move is my collections, library, workshop, tools,
equipment, parts, stuff, etc, etc, etc.. I am tired and sore already.
Thank heaven the old and new house are only about a mile apart!
At 14:05 23-04-98 -0700, Kip wrote:
At 09:27 4/23/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
I'm sure this is not even an original thought,
but the Year 2000 presents
a special opportunity for collectors like us.
See ANALYTICAL ENGINE Volume 1, Number 2, October 1993 ;-) If we think
we've got a space crisis NOW....
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
11:45 a.m.
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Christian Fandt wrote:
Kip, is that magazine online anywhere? I haven't
heard of it myself.
Sounds like you are refering us to a rather interesting read!
Hmmm... And Sam, you have an interesting thought. But I wonder actually how
many old systems you refer to are actually are still in use?
I don't know...but if these old machines are still turning up regularly
here and there then that's a hint, and you'd be surprised actually at the
number of companies (perhaps mostly smaller ones) that are still using
those machines for a specific application. And since if it ain't broke,
don't fix it, they figured they'd use it until it just up and died, or
until they HAD to upgrade.
Mind you, this is all speculation, but its based on about 48 seconds of
thinking, so its a pretty well researched thought :)
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/23/98]
1:30 p.m.
I don't know...but if these old machines are still
turning up regularly
here and there then that's a hint, and you'd be surprised actually at the
number of companies (perhaps mostly smaller ones) that are still using
those machines for a specific application. And since if it ain't broke,
don't fix it, they figured they'd use it until it just up and died, or
until they HAD to upgrade.
Oh yes, there still are some of the 15 or 20 year old beasts running. The
air traffic control system is on ca. 1982 IBM 3081 water-machines, and
there are plenty of 3090s going. I think there are even a few Cyber 180s
chugging away (and how I lust for one!). I would not be at all suprised if
there are still one or two S/370s or Univacs still going as well.
The business minis, however, are hitting the scrap yards in record
numbers.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
6:10 p.m.
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, William Donzelli wrote:
My point exactly. And if my intuition serves me well on this one the rate
at which we see old iron being retired will increase dramatically over the
next two years.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/23/98]
I don't
know...but if these old machines are still turning up regularly
here and there then that's a hint, and you'd be surprised actually at the
number of companies (perhaps mostly smaller ones) that are still using
those machines for a specific application. And since if it ain't broke,
don't fix it, they figured they'd use it until it just up and died, or
until they HAD to upgrade.
Oh yes, there still are some of the 15 or 20 year old beasts running. The
air traffic control system is on ca. 1982 IBM 3081 water-machines, and
there are plenty of 3090s going. I think there are even a few Cyber 180s
chugging away (and how I lust for one!). I would not be at all suprised if
there are still one or two S/370s or Univacs still going as well.
The business minis, however, are hitting the scrap yards in record
numbers.
6:57 p.m.
My point exactly. And if my intuition serves me well
on this one the rate
at which we see old iron being retired will increase dramatically over the
next two years.
At this point, everyone on this list could have an S/34, S/36, or
S/38! Beyond them, I do not think any of the other minis are in real
trouble of scrapage, as most are doing things that are not COBOL based
(like the hoards of PDP-11s, and few -8s, still doing industrial process
control).
Unfortuneately, I think the other business minis (Burroughs, Honeywell,
etc.) are mostly all gone now.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
12:39 a.m.
Think of all the companies who are right now weighing
whether or not those
old mainframes that have been chugging away in their data centers for
years, perhaps even decades, are worth one more upgrade to support 4-digit
years or whether it would make more sense to finally take the painful
route of scrapping their old iron and moving on to PCs or AS400s or
whatnot. I predict a tremendous flood of old mainframe and mini hardware
coming to market like so many cattle which will only peak on December 31,
1999.
I do not think we are going to see a huge influx of oldiron at the
scrapyards come the turn of the century. It has been happening steadily
for the past five years or so. The mainframe world tends to be
similar to the consumer desktop word, with the old S/360 standard being
the dominant force and the Unisys standards being a distant second (like
the Macintosh). Both of these companies foresaw the Y2K problem and came
out with new machines and operating systems, and they have been selling
lot of them (well, IBM and company anyway - Unisys seems to be fading).
The hardware Y2K problem, for the most part, has been solved. But that was
the easy bit...
This is a once in a millennium opportunity! So make
sure you've got
plenty of space and plenty of petty cash to throw around cuz its gonna be
easy pickins.
It has always been easy pickins. Just last week I dragged home a bunch of
cards from 3880 storage directors, as well as cards from some early S/370
tape drives. The boxes themselves were too big to deal with (I was 800
miles from home on a business trip, and just had to take a little time to
go to a junkyard).
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
11:35 a.m.
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, William Donzelli wrote:
Of course the issue is not hardware, but rather software. And the
continued maintainence of that software beyond 2000. And I'm sure a lot
of companies will decide, irregardless of the platform, that its just not
worth maintaining that decrepit code anymore and it would be a better
investment to take the hit and upgrade to some modern platform with new
software.
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I stand by my assertion, and my
garage is ready and waiting.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/23/98]
Think of all
the companies who are right now weighing whether or not those
old mainframes that have been chugging away in their data centers for
years, perhaps even decades, are worth one more upgrade to support 4-digit
years or whether it would make more sense to finally take the painful
route of scrapping their old iron and moving on to PCs or AS400s or
whatnot. I predict a tremendous flood of old mainframe and mini hardware
coming to market like so many cattle which will only peak on December 31,
1999.
I do not think we are going to see a huge influx of oldiron at the
scrapyards come the turn of the century. It has been happening steadily
for the past five years or so. The mainframe world tends to be
similar to the consumer desktop word, with the old S/360 standard being
the dominant force and the Unisys standards being a distant second (like
the Macintosh). Both of these companies foresaw the Y2K problem and came
out with new machines and operating systems, and they have been selling
lot of them (well, IBM and company anyway - Unisys seems to be fading).
The hardware Y2K problem, for the most part, has been solved. But that was
the easy bit... 
12:46 p.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I stand by
my assertion, and my
garage is ready and waiting.
Heh, mine's pretty much jam-packed. But there are some old appliances
and furniture my wife's been making me save for so long now... I could
easily stash some serious iron where that stuff is now sitting. Hmmm.
Gotta get working on that...
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
9763
days inactive
9764
days old
10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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cfandt＠servtech.com -
dastar＠wco.com -
engine＠chac.org -
gram＠cnct.com -
mor＠crl.com -
william＠ans.net