On Wed, 15 May 2013, E. Groenenberg wrote: Could you image that? I'm looking for that kind of stuff for SunOS/Solaris. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

On 15 May 2013, at 14:36, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: I have an install of older SunOS running?it's a bit too new though I bet. Never got anything earlier than 7 to work.

http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com.br/2013/05/macintoxicos-drives-sata-no-g4… At least it is cheaper than original apple drives :o) --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br

On 15/05/13 8:30 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: My first Mac was Mac Plus ... since then I am not aware of any Mac that couldn't use generic SCSI drives. I don't know what the Apple firmware did (bug fixes?), but nothing was locked to it. --Toby

At 11:24 PM -0400 5/15/13, Ethan Dicks wrote: That was the main good thing about the move away from SCSI, they also moved away from this nonsense. The other good thing was cheaper drives. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Photographer | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | My flickr Photostream | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ | | My Photography Website | | http://www.zanesphotography.com |

On 15/05/13 11:45 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Ethan is right about some versions of the Apple formatter looking for Apple firmware, but there were excellent 3rd party formatters, and the Apple formatter could even be patched (pretty sure I've done it). There was no real obstacle to using generic drives that I'm aware of. --Toby

On May 16, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote: Well, it comes from people who don't know what to modify. It takes a bit of Googling these days (used to be harder to come by), but only a bit; if you search for "HD SC Setup patch", you'll find everything you need to make that particular tool work (there are situations where it's preferable to Drive Setup, but I don't remember them off the top of my head). Drive Setup works with damn near everything, Apple-labeled or not. - Dave

It is NOT A MYTH. The fact that it can be trivially circumvented AFTER you know how, doesn't make it a "myth" It comes from it being DELIBERATELY blocked. Yes, somebody who already knows how can beat Apple's attempt at lock-in. For somebody who DOESN'T already know, it's a bit of a project. If you ALREADY know HOW it does it (looking for "(c) APPLE" in a known region), it's not hard to crack something like that. If you HAVE an Apple ddrive, you can search for it, and know where it needs to be patched on the other drive. But, if you do NOT have access to an Apple drive, the disassembly to determaine what needs to be patched and where is more than a little daunting. If you ALREADY know that a given protection can be defeated by replacing a conditional jump with an unconditional jump at a known location, it is trivial. If you DON'T ALREADY know, it's a small project, without guarantee of success sufficient to warrant purchase of a drive that may or may not be patchable. Consider the classic CE story/joke. The CE arrives, measures position on the case and hits it with a hammer. Customer balks at the bill. CE responds, "yes, it is only $1 for hitting it with a hammer. The rest of the charge is for knowing where to hit it." IFF you know what you are doing, it's not always difficult. MS-DOS started to key EVERY program, disunirregardless of whether there was a need, to only work with its own specific version. But, without patching, your development work is seriously inconvenienced by not having a copy of LINK.EXE or EXE2BIN.EXE that will work with the running OS version, and getting "WRONG DOS VERSION" errors. "DOS 2.00 LINK.EXE DOESN'T WORK WWITH DOS 5.00" is a true statement, UNTIL you determine what to do and fix it. Knowing about function 30h, AND knowing that there isn't any reason NOT to make the patch, makes the patch trivial. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

On 16/05/13 1:54 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: Like buying _any of the 3rd party formatters_ that were advertised in every issue of every Mac magazine? Professional Mac users knew about them and used them. This restriction wasn't in the hardware (Al Kossow's cited possible non-lock-in corner cases notwithstanding). --T

On 16/05/13 8:08 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: Hi Fred, I don't know if you used these systems at the time, but third party disks were sold for Macs everywhere, *along with* appropriate formatting tools. On a floppy. Since OEM drives also always came with the right formatter (Apple's), rather few people would ever have seen the issue at all: Basically space cadets who bought bare drives and wanted to install them themselves. Most of whom would have had a formatter. (Highly retrospective) Storm in a teacup if you ask me. :-) --Toby

On Wed, 16 May 2013, Ethan Dicks wrote: Doesn't seem like that would be too hard to fool. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

AFAIK there was no restriction to brand, but to 512-byte sector config. Am I wrong? Anyway, I have 3 or 4 good drives here, I hope they last a lifetime :o)

On Wed, 15 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: I was trying it in QEMU. ;) I'm not /that/ crazy! Ahhh. That's DEFINITELY old-school SunOS then! -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

Hello John, I believe that I am going to pass on the CD. Please give/sell it to Cory, or who ever was next in line. Thank you, Jerry On 05/15/13 11:44 AM, John Robertson wrote:

On 05/15/2013 3:57 PM, David Riley wrote: I was trying to burn an image using Disk Utilities (system only wanted to do a .dmg, not .img) - didn't realize you could do it from the command line (not a real UNIX guy). It looks like there are proper images and I'll send these off to Bitsavers for both the DEC and SUN disks if Al wants them. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

On 05/17/2013 9:50 AM, Stephen Kitt wrote: Hi Stephen, Sorry, but the OS/2 set appears to be spoken for, however the fellow says he intends to image them and share with the community. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"