2 Aug
2007
2 Aug
'07
5:50 a.m.
First a simple question, how many readers of this list are in the UK?
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in two or three years
time, maybe we could do something much simpler in the mean time,
without using the VCF name. Just a get together of anyone in the UK
with an interest in old computers and hopefully a few who would want
to exhibit theirs. Who would be interested and about how much space,
if any would they want?
I guess we would need to double that up to allow for aisles etc. Then
we'll know the size of venues to look for. By the way, I was really
thrown by the mention of the planet Venus, it took me a while to work
out it was a typo for venues :-)
Then there's the question of vehicle parking. How many and are we
talking only cars and small vans or big vans and articulated lorries?
Roger,
who is planning a 1300 sq ft extension to his computer room, and who
lives on a farm in Kent. Probably too small and not central enough,
but who knows.
2 Aug
2 Aug
6:16 a.m.
On 02/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
First a simple question, how many readers of this list
are in the UK?
well I am, but am not able to get much away from Manchester area due
to family commitments.
[snips]
I guess we would need to double that up to allow for
aisles etc. Then
we'll know the size of venues to look for. By the way, I was really
thrown by the mention of the planet Venus, it took me a while to work
out it was a typo for venues :-)
lol that was me. Spotted it just as I hit Send.. but too late by then!
Roger,
who is planning a 1300 sq ft extension to his computer room, and who
lives on a farm in Kent. Probably too small and not central enough,
but who knows.
Oh for the space!! I've got the bottom of a wardrobe and my desk built
into an alcove.. I was very interested in the possibilities for a
Z-guage working replica discussed in another thread... (Or even the
1/12 originally requested) :-)
Rob
3:20 p.m.
Rob wrote:
On 02/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at
microspot.co.uk> wrote:
I'm in the UK too (in the Manchester area...) and would be interested in
attending.
Julian
First a simple question, how many readers of this
list are in the UK?
well I am, but am not able to get much away from Manchester area due
to family commitments.
12:21 p.m.
On 02/08/2007 10:50, Roger Holmes wrote:
First a simple question, how many readers of this list
are in the UK?
Me :-)
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in two or
three years time,
maybe we could do something much simpler in the mean time
Who would be interested and about how much space, if
any would they want?
Depending on date and venue, I'd be interested in exhibiting, and
*maybe* assisting with organisation.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
3:31 p.m.
Rumor has it that Roger Holmes may have mentioned these words:
... Then we'll know the size of venues to look for.
By the way, I was
really thrown by the mention of the planet Venus, it took me a while to
work out it was a typo for venues :-)
I've never been to the good ol' UK, so with the talk of "Northern
England"
I just thought it was the name of a town in the region.
After all, if you're looking for something a bit more "outworldly" I've
been to Vulcan a couple of times!
I've also been near Moscow (despite having never been to Russia) and when
people tell me to go to Hell I can honestly say "been there a few times."
And yes, it has frozen over in the past.
http://files.myopera.com/velmu/blog/hell.jpg
These are all towns in my home state of Michigan in the US. ;-)
And where's better than Intercourse, Pennsylvania? ....
.... Climax, Michigan. ;-)
=-=-=-=-=
That said, I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again:
I'd like to see a VCF Canada - if it's nearby me (I live right on the
Canadian border) I'd be happy to help, if I have the cash & time. [[ In the
past I didn't have much time - I'm currently part of the jobless statistic,
so now I don't have the cash - but hopefully that'll change soon... ]]
Even Toronto or Ottawa would actually be closer to me than the VCF-MidWest
(which unforch, I was unable to attend this year), and it would be neat to
see more Canadian-designed machines, like some of the kit from the
University of Waterloo.... but that's just IMHO.
Back under my rock now... ;-)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson
zmerch at 30below.com |
3 Aug
3 Aug
6 p.m.
I've never been to the good ol' UK, so with
the talk of "Northern England"
I just thought it was the name of a town in the region.
After all, if you're looking for something a bit more "outworldly" I've
been to Vulcan a couple of times!
If we stick with the North of England for the moment, a place with a
very appropriate name for holding a VCF (althoguh, I suspect, with no
suitable venue fro such an event) would be 'Hackforth'.
To answer another question in this thread, I am in England (south-west
London, near Richmond). I could only contemplate coming to such an event
if it was held in the Greater London area (actually, London Bus Pass
area, which is slightly larger). And having looked for suitable venues
some years back for such an event with an eccentric friend of mine, we
came to the conclusion that suitable rooms (large, solid floor that they
didn't main us putting 19" racks on, enough power capacity for running a
few minis) werre very few and far between, and those we did find were too
expensive, based onthe number of people we expected to attend.
I usspect such venues may be cheaper out of London, but then I wouldn't
attend.
-tony
7:33 p.m.
On 03/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
some years back for such an event with an eccentric
friend of mine, we
came to the conclusion that suitable rooms (large, solid floor that they
didn't main us putting 19" racks on, enough power capacity for running a
few minis) werre very few and far between, and those we did find were too
expensive, based onthe number of people we expected to attend.
I usspect such venues may be cheaper out of London, but then I wouldn't
attend.
I had a couple of years experience in the Dog Show scene, some time
back, and found that sports halls (school, college and stand-alone)
tended to get used a lot. They ranged from fairly big to Huge, and
had solid floors. For a VCF, though, power might be an issue -
sockets were obviously not a priority in most of their designs.... I
got the impression that they were usually, at least at the time,
fairly cheap to hire,
7:58 p.m.
I'm not sure what Hans does in Germany, but here in the States, most of
the previous VCF locations were obtained because someone knew someone
... for example Sellam has close contacts (and is a former employee) of
the museum in Silicon Valley; Pat is part of the Perdue U. community;
and here in NJ we just used the event room(s) at the museum where our
user group is based. I think once or twice Sellam paid for an event
room in a hotel, but that was 10 years ago. Another year, before my
user group (MARCH), VCF East was at a local (Boston) campus of Sun Micro
which we got use of through some contacts there.
The point is -- find out who's willing to help; then go off-list and put
all of your brains together -- and you'll find a venue of some sort.
Does not have to be anything fancy.
And whoever takes the lead among you, make sure to ask Sellam is HE has
possible locations out there. You may be surprised.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob [mailto:robert at irrelevant.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 7:33 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: UK VCF?
On 03/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
some years back for such an event with an eccentric
friend of mine, we
came to the conclusion that suitable rooms (large, solid floor that
they
didn't main us putting 19" racks on, enough
power capacity for running
a
few minis) werre very few and far between, and those
we did find were
too
expensive, based onthe number of people we expected to
attend.
I usspect such venues may be cheaper out of London, but then I
wouldn't
attend.
I had a couple of years experience in the Dog Show scene, some time
back, and found that sports halls (school, college and stand-alone)
tended to get used a lot. They ranged from fairly big to Huge, and
had solid floors. For a VCF, though, power might be an issue -
sockets were obviously not a priority in most of their designs.... I
got the impression that they were usually, at least at the time,
fairly cheap to hire,
8:30 p.m.
On 3 Aug 2007 at 19:58, Evan Koblentz wrote:
the museum in Silicon Valley; Pat is part of the
Perdue U. community;
As a former Boilermaker, I resent the implication! Perdue sells raw
bits of dead chickens; Purdue is a institution in a certain Indiana
town, where, until recently, the Ku Klux Klan has been known to hold
recruitment rallies.
What was that about chicken again?
Cheers,
Chuck
8:38 p.m.
LOL, sorry (about the spelling AND that you went to school where the KKK
is active!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Guzis [mailto:cclist at sydex.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:31 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: UK VCF?
On 3 Aug 2007 at 19:58, Evan Koblentz wrote:
the museum in Silicon Valley; Pat is part of the
Perdue U. community;
As a former Boilermaker, I resent the implication! Perdue sells raw
bits of dead chickens; Purdue is a institution in a certain Indiana
town, where, until recently, the Ku Klux Klan has been known to hold
recruitment rallies.
What was that about chicken again?
Cheers,
Chuck
3 Aug
3 Aug
10:46 p.m.
Hi,
I had a couple of years experience in the Dog Show
scene,
some time back, and found that sports halls (school, college
and stand-alone) tended to get used a lot....
Quite a few amateur radio rallies that I've attended have been held at such
venues, one (the Derby rally ISTR) even used to be held IN a school!
Might be worth talking to the organisers of such events?
TTFN - Pete.
4 Aug
4 Aug
5:27 p.m.
On 03/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I am pretty sure we considered such places. The main problems were the
floor (which the owners didn't want scratched, dented or marked) and
power. We didn#t feel like buying enough 3.4" plywood to cover the floor
(which would have solved the first problem). But the power was the
greater problem anywauy. Typically there'd me 4 or so 13A sockets, almost
certainly all on one ring, so a maximum current capacity of 30A. We felt
we needed at least 125A (our working idea was 10 exhibitors at about 13A
per exhibitor, if somebody wanted to run a large minicomputer, well, we'd
ensure somebody else was only rounnibg a Beeb :-)).
This led us to look at dance halls and the like. These did have
considerable mains currnet capacity (for lighting rigs, etc), 125A
sockets were not uncommon. The floor was still a problem (if not more
so!), and hiring them wosn't cheap!
-tony
some years back for such an event with an
eccentric friend of mine, we
came to the conclusion that suitable rooms (large, solid floor that they
didn't main us putting 19" racks on, enough power capacity for running a
few minis) werre very few and far between, and those we did find were too
expensive, based onthe number of people we expected to attend.
I usspect such venues may be cheaper out of London, but then I wouldn't
attend.
I had a couple of years experience in the Dog Show scene, some time
back, and found that sports halls (school, college and stand-alone)
tended to get used a lot. They ranged from fairly big to Huge, and 
9:08 p.m.
On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:27:00 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote:
But the power was the
greater problem anywauy. Typically there'd me 4 or so 13A sockets, almost
certainly all on one ring, so a maximum current capacity of 30A. We felt
we needed at least 125A (our working idea was 10 exhibitors at about 13A
per exhibitor, if somebody wanted to run a large minicomputer, well, we'd
ensure somebody else was only rounnibg a Beeb :-)).
A few years back I helped set up a very large lan party in a hall that had a kitchen.
We unplugged 2 deepfryers in the kitchen and fed 2 disrtibution panels from those
outlets.
We had a about 80 modern gameing computers with monitors running for several days.
Just a thought... til later.
Bob
5 Aug
5 Aug
4:09 a.m.
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 21:08 -0400, Bob Bradlee wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:27:00 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell
wrote:
... but no fried food :-/
Gordon
But the power was the
greater problem anywauy. Typically there'd me 4 or so 13A sockets, almost
certainly all on one ring, so a maximum current capacity of 30A. We felt
we needed at least 125A (our working idea was 10 exhibitors at about 13A
per exhibitor, if somebody wanted to run a large minicomputer, well, we'd
ensure somebody else was only rounnibg a Beeb :-)).
A few years back I helped set up a very large lan party in a hall that had a kitchen.
We unplugged 2 deepfryers in the kitchen and fed 2 disrtibution panels from those
outlets.
We had a about 80 modern gameing computers with monitors running for several days.
1:25 p.m.
At 04:27 PM 8/4/2007, Tony Duell wrote:
This led us to look at dance halls and the like. These
did have
considerable mains currnet capacity (for lighting rigs, etc), 125A
sockets were not uncommon. The floor was still a problem (if not more
so!), and hiring them wosn't cheap!
It sounds like a warehouse or empty factory would make sense...
not as pretty as a sports hall, but it'll do...
- John
5 Aug
5 Aug
4:10 p.m.
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 00:33 +0100, Rob wrote:
How stable is the frequency of such a unit? Remember many larger disk
drives have their spindle speed set by mains freqeucy.
-tony
had solid floors. For a VCF, though, power might
be an issue -
sockets were obviously not a priority in most of their designs.... I
Hire a genny.
4:57 p.m.
On 05/08/2007 21:10, Tony Duell wrote:
To say nothing of the fact that the output is often nothing like a sine
wave, and many devices don't take kindly to that.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Hire a genny.
How stable is the frequency of such a unit? Remember many larger disk
drives have their spindle speed set by mains freqeucy. 
5:30 p.m.
To say nothing of the fact that the output is often
nothing like a sine
wave, and many devices don't take kindly to that.
Cripes, what kind of crummy generators to you Brits have? The ones
here in the US are very stable, and make power that nothing I know of
complains about.
--
Will
7:48 p.m.
On 05/08/2007 22:30, William Donzelli wrote:
We've tried small generators as backup to small UPs units, and they
don't get on. Big ones are OK, that's the sort of thing they're
designed for.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
To say nothing
of the fact that the output is often nothing like a sine
wave, and many devices don't take kindly to that.
Cripes, what kind of crummy generators to you Brits have? The ones
here in the US are very stable, and make power that nothing I know of
complains about.
6 Aug
6 Aug
6:47 p.m.
We've tried small generators as backup to small
UPs units, and they
don't get on. Big ones are OK, that's the sort of thing they're
designed for.
What do you mean by 'large' and 'small'? For a VCF-like event, I would
expect one of those large units that's trasported on a lorry, the sort of
thing you use for a large outdoor concert, or an entire (large) building
site, not one of those little things you pick up with one hand and give
you 13A (@240V) if you're lucky.
-tony
8:18 p.m.
On Mon, 2007-08-06 at 23:47 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
Yes, the lorry-transported ones are what I had in mind. Part of the
improvement is because they have a massive torquey engine, a massive
flywheel (waaaaay bigger than the engine needs) and a big heavy rotor in
the generator. All this rotating mass adds up to something that won't
change speed much as the load fluctuates.
The little 5bhp Honda gennies are a bit out of this league.
Gordon
We've
tried small generators as backup to small UPs units, and they
don't get on. Big ones are OK, that's the sort of thing they're
designed for.
What do you mean by 'large' and 'small'? For a VCF-like event, I would
expect one of those large units that's trasported on a lorry, the sort of
thing you use for a large outdoor concert, or an entire (large) building
site, not one of those little things you pick up with one hand and give
you 13A (@240V) if you're lucky.
10:20 p.m.
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:15:18 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
> are they made by Lucas?
I was thinking about making that joke, until I realized
that a Lucas
generator probably would not even start.
I am sure what ever powered it would definitely leak more oil than it burned, unless it
had bad rings,
then it might be a close race.
Back under my rock :)
Bob
--
Will
7:35 p.m.
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007, William Donzelli wrote:
What is this about hating Lucas over there? I've been working on my
father's cars for over 35 years, and I've had very few problems from
Lucas electrics (fitted on all but 2 of the cars). Apart from service
items (contact breaker points, etc), the only thing I had to replace was
one regulator module (the pass transistor had shorted -- I had the
schematics, I knew exactly which component had gone, but it was a potted
module..)
Conersely, I had t oreplace a Mitsubishi regualtor/brushbox module
(brushes wore out), rebuild a Mitsubishi starter motor (brushes stuck in
the guides), and repair a VAG-group (maybe Bosch) windscreen washer pump
(IMHO it was badly moulded, and didn't fit together properly so it leaked
spectacularly, Adding a Jubilee clip and a couple of cable ties cured that).
OK, its a very small sample, but it does show that not all Lucas
electrical devices fail.
-tony
Cripes, what kind of crummy generators to you
Brits have?
are they made by Lucas? 
11:56 p.m.
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007, William Donzelli wrote:
> > Cripes, what kind of crummy generators to you Brits have?
> are they made by Lucas?
I am to blame for the slur against Lucas, not William.
On Tue, 7 Aug 2007, Tony Duell wrote:
What is this about hating Lucas over there?
In the 1970s, I had extensive experience with auto repair, including very
poor reliability of 1960s and early 1970s Lucas electrics. They may very
well have improved significantly since then, in which case I apologize for
the nasty comment.
In addition, in the early 1970s, Japanese cars seemed to have
significantly better gasket technology that anybody else,
leading to the equally nasty:
"The only times [insert favorite here] doesn't leak oil is before the
factory fills it, and after it all leaks out."
OK, its a very small sample, but it does show that not
all Lucas
electrical devices fail.
And my sample is only ones exported to the USA in 1960s and 1970s.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:43 a.m.
In the last 35 years I have had the following:
MGA, MGB, AH-Mk2 Sprite, ans several Lotus including a Super-7, and a BSA 650 lightning.
and worked on
Jag's, Jensons, and most of the Layland product line as a grease monkey in the
70's and eraly 80's
At one point in time I managed a Lotus/TVR dealorship on the west side of chicago.
I joke about Lucas electrics mostly due to the high price and shortage of spares on this
side of the pound.
BUT as for leakers, thats no joke, I have seen oil drip pans under new cars in the
showroom.
Back under my rock...
The other Bob
10:02 a.m.
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 09:43 -0400, Bob Bradlee wrote:
I joke about Lucas electrics mostly due to the high
price and shortage of spares on this side of the pound.
BUT as for leakers, thats no joke, I have seen oil drip pans under new cars in the
showroom.
I've not really had as much trouble with Lucas electrics fitted to cars
as with Magneti-Marelli electrics on Italian cars (I would have dearly
loved to have crashed our old Fiat Regatta Weekend into something heavy,
had it been capable of running for more than a few minutes or going
faster than walking pace). One of my Landrover-owning friends makes
uncalled-for remarks about the suspension on my Citro?ns leaking oil -
bloody cheek, since the suspension is about the only thing on the Landie
that *doesn't* leak oil!
Gordon (hugely offtopic, and I'll stop now)
2:21 p.m.
What is this
about hating Lucas over there?
In the 1970s, I had extensive experience with auto repair, including very
poor reliability of 1960s and early 1970s Lucas electrics. They may very
well have improved significantly since then, in which case I apologize for
the nasty comment.
5 Aug
5 Aug
5:01 p.m.
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 21:10 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
We're in danger of drifting off-topic here, but it depends on the genny.
High-end ones are extremely stable, if that's what you order.
Gordon
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 00:33 +0100, Rob wrote:
How stable is the frequency of such a unit? Remember many larger disk
drives have their spindle speed set by mains freqeucy.
had solid floors. For a VCF, though, power might
be an issue -
sockets were obviously not a priority in most of their designs.... I
Hire a genny. 
1:19 p.m.
On 03/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
To answer another question in this thread, I am in
England (south-west
London, near Richmond). I could only contemplate coming to such an event
if it was held in the Greater London area (actually, London Bus Pass
area, which is slightly larger). And having looked for suitable venues
some years back for such an event with an eccentric friend of mine, we
came to the conclusion that suitable rooms (large, solid floor that they
didn't main us putting 19" racks on, enough power capacity for running a
few minis) werre very few and far between, and those we did find were too
expensive, based onthe number of people we expected to attend.
Did you look at the old Horticultural Halls, venues of the ZX
Microfairs in the 1980s? Worked then. I attended a lot of those and
they were always great fun.
I usspect such venues may be cheaper out of London,
but then I wouldn't
attend.
Whereas I'd much prefer London myself, why do you adamantly rule out
anywhere else, JOOI? It's only a fiver to go to Guildford or somewhere
like that and most of the SE at least can be done pretty cheaply.
--
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Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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4:26 p.m.
Whereas I'd much prefer London myself, why do you
adamantly rule out
anywhere else, JOOI? It's only a fiver to go to Guildford or somewhere
like that and most of the SE at least can be done pretty cheaply.
Becasue I'd want to bring at least one interesting toy along, and that is
not something I'd fancy doing on a train...
-tony
10:07 p.m.
On 05/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
OK, fair point, but I'm sure someone here could work out transport for
you! I've not been active here very long, but you certainly seem like
a big name of the CC community and by the sound of it you have a very
interesting collection.
If it were something small enough that I could transport it by
motorcycle, I'd be happy to carry something myself. I doubt I have any
kit of my own /remotely/ interesting enough for VCF UK!
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508
Whereas
I'd much prefer London myself, why do you adamantly rule out
anywhere else, JOOI? It's only a fiver to go to Guildford or somewhere
like that and most of the SE at least can be done pretty cheaply.
Becasue I'd want to bring at least one interesting toy along, and that is
not something I'd fancy doing on a train...
7:40 p.m.
OK, fair point, but I'm sure someone here could
work out transport for
you! I've not been active here very long, but you certainly seem like
a big name of the CC community and by the sound of it you have a very
Alas I don't think I am...
interesting collection.
Well, much of my collection is very standard stuff (Is there _any_ UK
collector who doesn't have BBC micros everywhere :-)). But I do have a
few quite interesting machines...
If it were something small enough that I could transport it by
motorcycle, I'd be happy to carry something myself. I doubt I have any
Thanks for your offer, but if your motorbike is normal-sized, I would
think that anything (size/weight) that could be safely carried on it,
could also be carried by hand.
-tony
9:59 p.m.
On 07/08/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's not. It's a trike. If I can fit it in my fairly modest luggage
capacity or otherwise strap it on the back seat and it's <5' wide,
it's probably doable.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508
OK, fair
point, but I'm sure someone here could work out transport for
you! I've not been active here very long, but you certainly seem like
a big name of the CC community and by the sound of it you have a very
Alas I don't think I am...
interesting collection.
Well, much of my collection is very standard stuff (Is there _any_ UK
collector who doesn't have BBC micros everywhere :-)). But I do have a
few quite interesting machines...
If it were something small enough that I could transport it by
motorcycle, I'd be happy to carry something myself. I doubt I have any
Thanks for your offer, but if your motorbike is normal-sized, I would
think that anything (size/weight) that could be safely carried on it,
could also be carried by hand. 
2 Aug
2 Aug
5:12 p.m.
Roger Holmes wrote:
First a simple question, how many readers of this list
are in the UK?
Me for one.
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in two or
three years time,
maybe we could do something much simpler in the mean time, without using
the VCF name. Just a get together of anyone in the UK with an interest
in old computers and hopefully a few who would want to exhibit theirs.
Who would be interested and about how much space, if any would they want?
I'd be interested in visiting the show, and possibly exhibiting, depending on
location. Somewhere in West Yorkshire would be very nice, but I'm not above
spending money on bus/train tickets or bribing family members for lifts :)
--
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6:16 p.m.
Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:> First a simple question,
how many readers of > this list are in the UK?
I am one of (hopefully) many :)
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in >
two or three years
time, maybe we could do something much
simpler in the mean time,
without using the VCF name. Just a get
together of anyone in the UK
with an interest in old computers and hopefully > a few who would want
to exhibit theirs. Who would be interested and > about how much space,
if any would they want?
Not much. Just enough to have a table for my laptop & opened up Amiga. I could bring a
few issues of 80 Microcomputing aswell, which would be the ones I have duplicates of. The
duplicates aren't in particularly good condition so it doesn't matter too much if
they were to get accidentally damaged :)
All the other issues of 80 Microcomputing I have are pretty much in mint condition and I
wouldn't risk bringing to the event (is that bad? Would anyone else feel the same
way?).
I guess we would need to double that up to
allow for aisles etc. Then
we'll know the size of venues to look for. By
the way, I was really
thrown by the mention of the planet Venus, it
took me a while to work
out it was a typo for venues :-)
Then there's the question of vehicle parking.
How many and are we
talking only cars and small vans or big vans
and articulated lorries?
I'd just bring my car.
Roger,
who is planning a 1300 sq ft extension to his
computer room, and who
lives on a farm in Kent. Probably too small and > not central enough,
but who knows.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
6:30 p.m.
On 02/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
First a simple question, how many readers of this list are in the UK?
<Raises Hand>
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in two or three years
time, maybe we could do something much simpler in the
mean time,
without using the VCF name. Just a get together of anyone in the UK
with an interest in old computers and hopefully a few who would want
to exhibit theirs. Who would be interested and about how much space,
if any would they want?
My thoughts were developing along the same lines, the key question surely is
numbers. How many do we think would attend, and could some core events be
lined up to to ensure a worthwhile experience? I'm thinking here of the
datacentre visits that (I think) were run from VCF Europe last year and the
invovlment of industry alumni that the US events have enjoyed.
It's not like we don't have a few home-grown pioneers - Clive Sinclair and
various Acorn people spring to mind.
--
Pete Edwards
"Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" - Niels
Bohr
1:41 p.m.
Hi,
Adrian Burgess said:
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 10:50:59AM +0100, Roger Holmes
wrote:
And here...
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
First a simple question, how many readers of this list are in the UK?
Another one here :)
5 Aug
5 Aug
1:25 p.m.
On 02/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
First a simple question, how many readers of this list
are in the UK?
[Raises paw] Mitcham, SW London/Surrey borders.
As far as venues go, anywhere that can host a large LANparty should
do. It will have both the space and the power.
Something like Multiplay:
http://www.multiplay.co.uk/
Multiplay 31 is happening next week. 1500 gamers are expected, most of
them bringing a tricked-out high-performance PC that would draw ITRO a
kiloWatt.
Is Newbury too far south for the grumpy Northern gits*? :?)
* (an expatriate Liverpudlian writes... It's much more pleasant Darn Sarf.)
--
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Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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9 Aug
9 Aug
3:54 p.m.
First a simple question, how many readers of this list
are in the UK?
If Bletchley Park might be able to do a VCF in two or three years
time, maybe we could do something much simpler in the mean time,
without using the VCF name. Just a get together of anyone in the UK
with an interest in old computers and hopefully a few who would
want to exhibit theirs. Who would be interested and about how much
space, if any would they want?
I guess we would need to double that up to allow for aisles etc.
Then we'll know the size of venues to look for. By the way, I was
really thrown by the mention of the planet Venus, it took me a
while to work out it was a typo for venues :-)
Then there's the question of vehicle parking. How many and are we
talking only cars and small vans or big vans and articulated lorries?
To which the answers (so far) are (including someone else's very
valid question of where they are) :
Rob <robert at irrelevant.com> Manchester
Ian <silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com>
Yorkshire At a push
I would be happy to demo a few interesting machines
Peter Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
York
interested in exhibiting, and *maybe* assisting with organisation
Julian <julian at jnt.me.uk>
Manchester
Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> West
Yorkshire interested in
visiting the show, and possibly exhibiting
Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk> south-east, a few
miles from Cambridge. enough to have a table for my laptop & opened
up Amiga
I'd just bring my car
Pete Edwards <stimpy.u.idiot at gmail.com>
Rod Smallwood <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk>
50 miles west of London near the (in)famous Greenham Common
Austin Pass <austin at ozpass.co.uk>
Manchester some of my
SGI machines
transit van and could offer load space to other local
exhibitors too
Adrian Burgess <classiccmp at discordance.org.uk> Half way between
Nottingham and Lincoln
Andy Piercy <andy.piercy at gmail.com>
Gordon JC Pearce <gordon at gjcp.net> half-way up
Scotland, West side
Stan Barr <stanb at dial.pipex.com>
John Honniball <coredump at gifford.co.uk> North Bristol
Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> south-west
London, near Richmond I'd want to bring at least one interesting
toy along
Pete (Ensor?) <classiccmp at memory-alpha.org.uk> Birmingham
James <james at machineroom.info>
Southampton possibly showing
my 340 node Transputer system
Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> Mitcham, SW
London
motor-tricycle
Commented but didn't actually say was in UK:
John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com>
Tim Walls <tim.walls at snowgoons.com> Leeds,
Yorkshire but prefers London
Mike Hatch <mike at brickfieldspark.org> Aldershot,
Hampshire
James Carter <james at jfc.org.uk> York
Plus me,
Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> Weald of Kent,70 miles
south-east of London. Maybe a Lisa 2, my 1301 takes 3 months to
assemble/debug and weighs 5 tons.
Car
So we have 23 people interested, very few exhibitors and a large
geographic spread but with clusters in Yorkshire(5), Manchester(3)
and London(2 plus 2 nearby).
Thank you all very much for responding.
For my t'pennyworth (and saying it as a southerner) it seems like an
event within a few miles of the M62 would be feasible, but its too
far away for me to get involved in organising. An event down south
does not seem feasible to me, though any of you are welcome to see my
1301 (plus 'The Darling Buds of May' farm) if you're in the area,
though please check I'll be home that day.
Whilst I agree that the social aspect is important, I must say I'm
also interested in Rod's idea of a virtual meeting of some sort.
There's no way I could show you all my 1301 in person, but this would
be a way to do it, but does it need to be interactive? If it was, it
could still be recorded and put on a web site somewhere for all to
see. Maybe this could in some way be interactive through this list.
Could we do an introductory video to our machines (via U-Tube maybe
if the list server itself doesn't have enough storage/bandwidth),
then other listers could ask questions and ask for other things to be
shown, and that way listers throughout the world could be involved.
It also creates an archive which can maybe be preserved long after
the machines themselves have become fatally non functional or even
scrapped, or even just temporarily non functional for that matter.
Roger Holmes.
10 Aug
10 Aug
4:40 a.m.
G'Day,
On 09/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
[List of people in the UK.]
+ Me - Cheltenham. Able to drive pretty much all round the country. I
don't really have anything of my own exhibit worthy at the moment. :(
However, I drive an estate and am happy to collect people and
equipment on the way if they are not too far out of my way.
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
5:13 a.m.
Simon Fryer wrote:
G'Day,
On 09/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
[List of people in the UK.]
+ Me - Cheltenham.
+ Me around Cambridge in the short term...
I can think of quite a few others who either haven't replied or who are
collectors but not subscribed to this list.
I don't really have anything of my own exhibit
worthy at the moment. :(
I'm not sure if it would be against the spirit of the event to have some stuff
from Bletchley there (if the event is elsewhere!) - it
makes it a little less
"hobbyist". I suspect it would be possible to hire
a van for the duration and
take some big iron* on the road...
* Although most of our big stuff is just too delicate to go shipping around
and hope for it to remain functional. Moving non-operational items is a lot
easier, though :-)
J.
5:42 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 10:13 +0100, Jules Richardson wrote:
* Although most of our big stuff is just too delicate
to go shipping around
and hope for it to remain functional. Moving non-operational items is a lot
easier, though :-)
Bring something mildly non-operational, maybe someone else can fix it.
Gordon
1:45 p.m.
Hi,
Jules Richardson said:
Simon Fryer wrote:
I'm on Merseyside, but poor health makes it difficult to spend a whole
day (or more...) away doing stuff :-(
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
G'Day,
On 09/08/07, Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
[List of people in the UK.]
+ Me - Cheltenham.
+ Me around Cambridge in the short term...
I can think of quite a few others who either haven't replied or who are
collectors but not subscribed to this list. 
11 Aug
11 Aug
12:32 a.m.
New subject: non-subscribers, slackers, and scoundrels in general was Re: UK VCF?
--- Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
I can think of quite a few others who either
haven't
replied or who are
collectors but not subscribed to this list.
Senseless point to contemplate, but I have to wonder
why some bona fide collectors choose not to
participate (or at least monitor from time to time) a
vintage-based mailing list. Not everyone's cup of earl
gray I guess ;)
But frankly it does piss me off to think that there
are ahem resources out there that are going untapped.
Loads of people even on this list are sitting on
stacks of old floppies, and don't even take the time
to ensure the data therein won't be consigned to
oblivion. I mean how much effort does it take to set
up some 486 or early P- w/a 5 1/4" floppy drive, and
get on with it? If anyone needs help with this CONTACT
ME.
Umm what is the hardware w/o the software you geeks
you.
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2:47 p.m.
New subject: non-subscribers, slackers, and scoundrels in general was Re: UK VCF?
Chris M wrote:
Senseless point to contemplate, but I have to wonder
why some bona fide collectors choose not to
participate (or at least monitor from time to time) a
vintage-based mailing list.
Too busy. I'm the same at the moment - I'm pretty much skimming the list every
few days. The content's interesting enough, and it's taking a lot of willpower
not to reply to more than one or two posts (hence I can see why some people
don't subscribe at all even though they know the list is here)
But frankly it does piss me off to think that there
are ahem resources out there that are going untapped.
I know what you mean there - it is frustrating when you know that someone out
there probably has the answer to a problem, but you just don't know how to
reach them...
Loads of people even on this list are sitting on
stacks of old floppies, and don't even take the time
to ensure the data therein won't be consigned to
oblivion. I mean how much effort does it take to set
up some 486 or early P- w/a 5 1/4" floppy drive, and
get on with it?
Fscking lots, believe me. Stuffing disks into drives is time consuming enough,
but probably only takes up half the time - the rest is in understanding enough
about what wrote the disk in the first place to make sure it's imaged
correctly, and in properly recording enough visual detail* about the label and
jacket. That and doing re-reads to get around problems, keeping drive heads
clean etc.
* I'm coming around to thinking that for the museum media we should probably
be scanning low-quality (visual) images of the disk/jacket. It's surprising
how many disks I find where the labels are badly hand-written and open to
interpretation; once someone's done a best-guess interpretation in ASCII, it's
possible that information can be lost... (the other one is that in some cases
it's the *layout* of the label data which can provide clues as to what
something might be, rather than the character data itself)
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