Hello, Am 05.01.2021 um 22:02 schrieb mazzinia--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>: I can confirm. Without asking, we don?t know. The machine is advertised as has been running before, and 10 disks are included. The seller was writing me he has no idea about AS/400, and the guy who serviced it is no longer available. So I guess, nothing has been deleted so far. Even if there are no paper based lickeys to be obtained, they are still in the system. I guess, 120 kg or more. A lot of steel. :wq! PoC

These things are tanks, sort of... so technically troubles tend to be relative. The hard disks are factory initialized with a specific number of sectors... they are scsi, and you cannot use normal scsi disks there. Also you must not reformat these hdd elsewhere, or you end messing them up... the only way to initialize them for an as/400 is with an ibm tool that has never been released. This said, that auction has the terminal needed to operate it ( as admin ) included, it sits on top. (and yes, you can otherwise use the small panel on the front to ipl it up, and shut it down) You can add more twinax terminals ( the cables are included ), or connect to a twinax card in a pc ( isa/pci , depends what you find ) and ibm client access... or client access on lan. In any case you need that ( or a ) twinax terminal (emulator card works) for maintenance/admin duties -----Original Message----- From: Tomasz Rola <rtomek at ceti.pl> Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 10:46 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Cc: mazzinia at tin.it Subject: Re: DEDICATED HOBBYIST ALERT: IBM AS/400 9406-F2 for cheap sale in Germany On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 10:02:02PM +0100, mazzinia at tin.it wrote: Yep. I am used to this kind of description. I sometimes see it on certain Polish auctioning site. The seller is honest - they say it openly that they cannot take on the risk. "We also sell power supply to this laptop on separate auction but whatever stopped us from plugging one into another and into the wall"... I guess it is more complicated to check mainframe's correct operation. And I would want a very specific info about what is in the box. I am not sure, for example, if hard drives for it can be easily bought. Then again, if it worked perfectly and did not broke, there is good chance it might work for a long time. At least this is what older mainframes did (from what I have read). [...] I would also make sure it could be powered on without blowing the fuses out of the wall... Ok, after consulting IBM page [ https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/printableversion.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/re p_sm/3/872/ENUS9406-_h03/index.html ] - it says, 300~~700 watts, depending on configuration. Last but not least, my limited understanding is, the owner would need either control panel or operation console (looks like a laptop... perhaps?) and cables to connect them into the black refrigerator. Without enabling js for this page I cannot see what is pictured on very small photos. I suppose it will not boot (ipl) without panel/console. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **

Yeh, I know for a fact you cannot setup Hdds for an as/400 unless with the ibm factory tool. ( saw people using AS for a lot of years professionally discuss this ) You had an as400, you had to buy the spares hdds sold by ibm and ibm only About the panel ... let me see... Press 1 time "arrow up" to get 02 on the display Press "insert" > panel will show "02 BN" Press 4 times "arrow up" so that it changes to "02 BM" Press 2 times the white power on button, to start the shutdown/poweroff phase -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Patrik Schindler via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 12:11 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DEDICATED HOBBYIST ALERT: IBM AS/400 9406-F2 for cheap sale in Germany Hello, Am 05.01.2021 um 23:33 schrieb mazzinia--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>: Yap. See here for details (and further reading). https://try-as400.pocnet.net/wiki/Ordinary_Harddisks_on_the_AS/400 Do you have experience with this? Because, you certainly can format a disk in the ?BIOS? (Dedicated Service Tools) of a machine. And I suppose that doing this is doing the right thing. I know no safe way to initiate a proper shutdown from the panel. Do you have more information on that? I guess it?s included, eventhough not mentioned in the text. And I fully agree, Console is important to have. :wq! PoC

Yes, that's correct And I doubt that there's an orderly shutdown from the panel... I remember being told of only one procedure, but it would not cause damages/issues of sort. In any case we're speaking about something that was meant to be turned on and never turned off unless some maintenance or a big issue. For scheduled maintenance, the qsecofr / admin account could issue a pwrdwnsys , and for a catastrophe where the terminal is not accessible ... the panel does its job -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Patrik Schindler via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 1:27 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DEDICATED HOBBYIST ALERT: IBM AS/400 9406-F2 for cheap sale in Germany Hello, Am 06.01.2021 um 02:04 schrieb mazzinia at tin.it: Yes, I know about that and can confirm. What I understood from your last posting is that once you reformat an AS/400 disk for 512 Bytes per sector as used by commodity hardware, you can?t use it again on AS/400, even by reformatting. This is *not* an orderly shutdown, but some kind of emergency shutdown procedure to prevent excess damage through RAM content not yet flushed to disk. A bit like doing a ?sync? and immediate power off on Unix/Linux. :wq! PoC

There are people that tried, it doesn't work. There's something proprietary written at low level that gets erased doing a low level format ( required to change the sectors ). The specifics were never released... With this I mean that the trick is not the firmware of the disk, but low level bits on the platters About the automatic shutdowns/restarts , I agree but I think it's a feature that was mainly directed at smaller AS used in satellite offices to support the local workforce and that had nothing going on, as a consequence, outside of business hours -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Patrik Schindler via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 2:22 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DEDICATED HOBBYIST ALERT: IBM AS/400 9406-F2 for cheap sale in Germany Hello, Am 06.01.2021 um 13:37 schrieb mazzinia at tin.it: Hm, I never verified that claim. Maybe I once had such an ex-AS/400 disk in earlier times which might sit unrecognized in my hard disk drawer. I can?t confirm your claim but I doubt it?s true: Firmware extensions will not get overridden from a reformat, and you can always reformat with 522 Bytes/Sector. I bet it will work again. That?s exactly what I wanted to express. :-) I?ve read about that procedure in an IBM (red)book and it?s ?not recommended for regular use?. I would need to look up the source if you want a proof. The OS has highly sophisticated scheduling for automatic start and shutdown, with possible exceptions per weekday and one-time exceptions like holidays. (Type GO POWER into the command line to see the menu.) I guess even one or two decades back, there was reason to save power. That?s what I mean. The procedure is not meant to be used as a substitute for pwrdwnsys. :wq! PoC

On Wed, Jan 06, 2021 at 12:57:42AM +0100, Patrik Schindler via cctalk wrote: Ahoy, To be frank, I am "new" to many things out there. Learning requires time and I have to spend time on few other subjects, so not so much is left for hobbies. I would describe myself as "on-off newbie", a much worse kind than regular newbie :-) , because at times I want to learn everything and then I do not want to learn anything. The only real result from this, I am subscribed to quite a few mailing lists where I keep stepping on other people's nerves. Also, from time to time, trying to help. Always trying to learn. Perhaps this is my real hobby. I was also "on-off game player". There are games I started in 1995 or 1994 and did not finish yet (ok, but I am not a total looser, I finished "Centurion", it was strategy game for DOS and Amiga... and perhaps I also finished "Panzer General", another strategy but I am really not sure, if it happened it was so many years ago). I think I might link two hobbies, if I can find some old archives. Even worse, there are games I bought pre-2000 and had not even unpacked from their boxes. Shit, there are movies I bought on dvd and did not watch yet. I think I am truly lousy hobbist. At least when I start reading a book, I finish it. Always. All right, I will watch my mouth... I do not want to find myself under the raised floor. Bookmarked, thanks. Your wiki about as/400, bookmarked too. Yes indeed, if I had to describe IBM's world in one word, the word would be "different". I, once in the past, dabbled a bit with Hercules. Even tried to heroically (i.e. without reading manuals) install one of the turnkeys (possibly TK3 by Volker Bandke). I came upon some problems with keyboard mapping and then decided to have a look into the DEC world. I have some intro book about mainframes stuffed on my e-book reader, maybe I will try again. Some day. There is, or was, a very interesting effort to create a modern upgrade to S360, called S380 (and there are, or were, upgraded versions of OS and MVS). There was also a dedicated group on yahoo, which sunk with yahoo, I believe. It was great idea, because S360 and related software all have fallen into public domain, free to tinker with. [...] Ok, so it is not a fridge. It is a kitchen. Burning it 24/7, well, maybe not. Energy costs are going up everywhere. Actually, it is also too heavy for me... It so happens that I am subscribed (surprise surprise) to mailing group for mainfraimers and they regularly hang dogs on IBM for wiping whole sections of old documentation off the redbooks site. Whatever one finds there, be thankful and download. [...] I guess I am talking about this one :-). That was interesting thing to learn. Thanks again. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **

On Wed, Jan 06, 2021 at 02:01:17PM +0100, Patrik Schindler via cctalk wrote: And it is a pleasure to have a conversation with you, too. Perhaps because this place is full of goodwilling strangers. [...] Man, I do have both patience and motivation (at least when I am not asleep). Otherwise, how could I play a game over and over for more than twenty years? Well, of course when I make a break and do not play it for a year, I forget details and it makes sense to start again. And those emotions. It is a bit like going to the bar where locals demanded to beat me, but I ran away so there was no conclusion, then after a year I come again... (In case this not quite obvious, I am making jokes of myself. I need more practice, because I am rather lousy satorist...) [...] Nah. It would not be heroic if I started calling for help. [...] Myself, I now feel the inexplicable pull towards the world of CP/M. Really, I have to play with it and be done with it. But, yes, if time permits. [...] I kind of understand their attitude. And I think I will always admire it when someone can resuscitate the original and make it shine. And I can learn plenty of interesting things by reading about old ways. But, I think that just as I was looking at classic computers, something in the back of my head was asking, if this object could be used by me in some practical way. And usually there is plenty of uses for a new object like this, but they no longer make them new. So for practical uses, the only resonable choice seems to be making franken-objects, connecting new parts with old soft, yes, this means emulation but also extension. Otherwise, the originals will fade away - sooner or later they will - and there would be no trace of whatever valuable lessons the past had. [...] For such things I use org-mode, a kind of modular extension in Emacs-the-editor. Actually, it is a code in elisp and Emacs just interprets it and shows specially formatted text as tree-like structure, which can be treated as knowledge base, or notes, a book one is writing, a blog which is then converted and exported to the server (I never saw it, but some claim they do this) or whatever one wants - one can also make use of pim/diary/todos, insert and run code snippets in huge number of languages, and make small spreadsheets inside the org-file. I find it very handy. Not perfect but more than "good enough". Of course the tree-like structure can be edited inside Emacs. This is just a text file, so it can also be processed by standard unix tools, or whatever other tools or scripts one prefers for text processing. There are/were some movies on y-t, I watched them first to have an idea of what to expect from it. The world of Emacs was so cool that I actually spent some time and learnt enough to use for my various purposes. It took few years of lazy learning, but right now I am on the level of writing my own functions which serve as shortcuts (doing something "my way"), or, for example, allow me to write text in Polish even when I do not have proper kb mappings (transform, say, "za/.z/'o//l/'c g/,e/'sl/,a ja/'z/'n" into unicoded "za???? g??l? ja??"). This is a kind of "classic" which greatly appeals to me. Emacs was first written fourty or so years ago, and when I read elisp files from install dir I quite often stumble upon code written in the 1980-ties or 1990-ties. But the thing is alive and kicking. If one had to learn only one thing of all the old things still available to us, then I think Emacs should be the choice. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **

On 2021-01-05 5:02 p.m., Patrik Schindler via cctalk wrote: I think you need the key to do things like a D IPL but I don't recall exactly it has been 25 years since I had a lot of hands on with an AS/400. Paul.