8 May
2018
8 May
'18
12:23 p.m.
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and
I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to find old source code for Usenet
(B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find source code for old news
*readers*.
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to at the time. The oldest version
I've found so far is nn 6.4, which is too big to compile on a 3B2/400. If I could get
my hands on 6.1 or earlier, I think I'd have a good chance.
I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough, though it is fairly bloated.
Earlier versions of that might be better.
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or perhaps you've got earlier sources
squirreled away?
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you using?
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
web at loomcom.com
9 May
9 May
1:22 a.m.
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet
on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to
find old source code for Usenet (B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find
source code for old news *readers*.
I might try delving through comp.sources.unix of the period 1985-1989...
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to
at the time.
I don't think I ever used nn.
I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough,
though it is fairly bloated. Earlier versions of that might be better.
ISTR using 'trn' for a while, but not that late. Probably 1992 or 1993?
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or
perhaps you've got earlier sources squirreled away?
I likely have backups of UNIX machines I used in the late 80s but not
anywhere quickly accessible. They would be on 9-track tape (I have a
working tsz07 SCSI tape drive for those times I need to read old
tapes).
It would definitely be faster to find public sources than my old
backups. I would have used whatever was common for the day on BSD
UNIX with no house mods.
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989,
what software were you using?
In 1989 I was running a UUCP box at work (Ultrix on a VAX-11/730) and
UUCP on my Amiga at home. I didn't have a 300MB news spool and my max
transfer speed was 2300 baud, so I wasn't running a full feed.
My fingers remember 'rn' and 'trn' for UNIX news readers. I forget
what I used on the Amiga, probably Matt Dillon's rn clone or perhaps
tin.
-ethan
1:47 a.m.
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet
on a cluster of 3B2/400s,
and I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to find old source code
for Usenet (B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find source
code for old news *readers*.
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to
at the time.
I have a copy of nn-6.4.16 along with patches 17 and 18, archived from my
old BBS directories. Shoot me a note off-list if you them.
I recall using 'trn' as my goto reader, back in the day.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
2:34 a.m.
On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 09:23:26AM -0700, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:
[...]
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or
perhaps you've got earlier
sources squirreled away?
I likely have some on one of the various Unix shovelware CDs of the early
1990s. It's probably quicker for you to trawl archive.org looking for the ISOs
than me trying to find my physical discs though :)
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989,
what software were you
using?
"rn" rings a vague bell, although I joined Usenet a few years later than that.
8:49 a.m.
On 05/08/2018 12:23 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet
on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to
find old source code for Usenet (B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find
source code for old news *readers*.
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to at the time. The oldest version
I've found so far is nn 6.4, which is too big to compile on a 3B2/400. If I could get
my hands on 6.1 or earlier, I think I'd have a good chance.
I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough, though it is fairly bloated.
Earlier versions of that might be better.
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or perhaps you've got earlier sources
squirreled away?
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you using?
Have you tried looking at the archives of things like comp.sources.unix
or the
other comp.sources groups?
First news server I used was on a 3B2 back in the early 80's.
bill
2:17 p.m.
From: Seth Morabito
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989,
what software were you
using?
1988-89 is about when I started reading Usenet newsgroups. At first, I used
rn under Ultrix (on a VAX 3600, the staff Ultrix system at LOTS), but soon
switched to Gnews (different from GNUS) under Emacs 18.59 because it saved
messages into an RMail format mailbox file for later access. Once I had that I
almost never used any of the Unix-y newsreaders.
(I had to switch to GNUS when Emacs 19 came out, but that's another story.)
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputers.org
http://www.LivingComputers.org/
2:52 p.m.
On 05/09/2018 02:17 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
From: Seth Morabito
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM
By 1989 I was using Knews as most of what I did was on real
workstations.? I am using Thunderbird at the moment but am
seriously thinking about going back to Knews.
bill
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in
1989, what software were you
using?
1988-89 is about when I started reading Usenet newsgroups. At first, I
used
rn under Ultrix (on a VAX 3600, the staff Ultrix system at LOTS), but soon
switched to Gnews (different from GNUS) under Emacs 18.59 because it saved
messages into an RMail format mailbox file for later access. Once I had that I
almost never used any of the Unix-y newsreaders.
(I had to switch to GNUS when Emacs 19 came out, but that's another story.)
2:55 p.m.
On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 06:52:34PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
On 05/09/2018 02:17 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
1989 was a bit before my time, Usenet-wise (I was still hitting the BBS scene
at the time), but around '93-94 when I got my first Unix shell account, I
recall using nn, but not terribly often (I mean, gopher was _right there_ for
the taking!).
These days I use slrn from an OpenBSD box.
--
Jon Tabor
taborj at obsolete.site
http://obsolete.site
From: Seth Morabito
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM
By 1989 I was using Knews as most of what I did was on real
workstations.? I am using Thunderbird at the moment but am
seriously thinking about going back to Knews.
bill
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in
1989, what software were you
using?
1988-89 is about when I started reading Usenet newsgroups. At first, I
used
rn under Ultrix (on a VAX 3600, the staff Ultrix system at LOTS), but soon
switched to Gnews (different from GNUS) under Emacs 18.59 because it saved
messages into an RMail format mailbox file for later access. Once I had that I
almost never used any of the Unix-y newsreaders.
(I had to switch to GNUS when Emacs 19 came out, but that's another story.)
10 May
10 May
11:24 a.m.
1989 was a bit before my time, Usenet-wise (I was
still hitting the BBS scene
at the time), but around '93-94 when I got my first Unix shell account, I
recall using nn, but not terribly often (I mean, gopher was _right there_ for
the taking!).
Another vote for nn (and, for that matter, Gopher).
I still use nn on AIX but I don't read a lot of Usenet these days.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- ASK ME ABOUT MY VOW OF SILENCE!!!! -----------------------------------------
9:18 a.m.
On Wed, 9 May 2018, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
From: Seth Morabito
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM
Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you can start reading in
1988 again. :) The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88. The
messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the current
date. It's pretty cool. Last year was the Great Renaming. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in
1989, what software were you
using?
1988-89 is about when I started reading Usenet newsgroups. At first, I used
rn under Ultrix (on a VAX 3600, the staff Ultrix system at LOTS), but soon
switched to Gnews (different from GNUS) under Emacs 18.59 because it saved
messages into an RMail format mailbox file for later access. Once I had that I
almost never used any of the Unix-y newsreaders.
11:52 a.m.
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:18 AM, geneb via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you
can start reading in
1988 again. :) The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88. The
messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the current
date. It's pretty cool. Last year was the Great Renaming. :)
Oh, man... I was around for that. I was just learning the ropes and
then the entire world changed. I was on an Ultrix machine and not
quite dialled into all the latest things like the cool kids on the
leading edge, so I remember struggling with the now-obsolete Netnews
package and trying to figure out why all my news was going into "junk"
- it was because the default catalog file (I forget the name) had all
the old newsgroup names and I didn't have an easy way to get a new
one. ISTR one of my friends at Ohio State let me Kermit into his box
to pick up a copy directly from him and that fixed me right up.
When Google put Usenet archives online in 2001, this subject came up -
I can't find any of my posts from net.micro.amiga, but I was there. I
got an Amiga and got on Usenet about the same time, in 1986. It's
possible I was reading news in late 1985, but I was running a news
server at work by 1986.
-ethan
11:52 a.m.
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:18 AM, geneb via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you
can start reading in
1988 again. :) The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88. The
messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the current
date. It's pretty cool. Last year was the Great Renaming. :)
Oh, man... I was around for that. I was just learning the ropes and
then the entire world changed. I was on an Ultrix machine and not
quite dialled into all the latest things like the cool kids on the
leading edge, so I remember struggling with the now-obsolete Netnews
package and trying to figure out why all my news was going into "junk"
- it was because the default catalog file (I forget the name) had all
the old newsgroup names and I didn't have an easy way to get a new
one. ISTR one of my friends at Ohio State let me Kermit into his box
to pick up a copy directly from him and that fixed me right up.
When Google put Usenet archives online in 2001, this subject came up -
I can't find any of my posts from net.micro.amiga, but I was there. I
got an Amiga and got on Usenet about the same time, in 1986. It's
possible I was reading news in late 1985, but I was running a news
server at work by 1986.
-ethan
11:57 a.m.
On 05/10/2018 07:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you
can start reading in
1988 again. :)? The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88.? The
messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the
current date.? It's pretty cool.? Last year was the Great Renaming. :)
Part of me wants to find out what corpus of articles they are using and
try to get a copy of it.
I'd like to back fill my private news server with old articles. (I'd
likely use the local distribution so that my server didn't try to feed
them to any peers.)
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1:02 p.m.
On Thu, 10 May 2018, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 05/10/2018 07:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
Grant, if you go to the web site (http://www.olduse.net), there's a FAQ
link where he discusses the sources used for the news feeds.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net,
you can start reading in
1988 again. :)? The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88.? The
messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the current
date.? It's pretty cool.? Last year was the Great Renaming. :)
Part of me wants to find out what corpus of articles they are using and try
to get a copy of it.
I'd like to back fill my private news server with old articles. (I'd likely
use the local distribution so that my server didn't try to feed them to any
peers.) 
9 May
9 May
5:23 p.m.
On May 8, 2018, at 9:23, Seth Morabito wrote:
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet
on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to
find old source code for Usenet (B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find
source code for old news *readers*.
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to at the time. The oldest version
I've found so far is nn 6.4, which is too big to compile on a 3B2/400. If I could get
my hands on 6.1 or earlier, I think I'd have a good chance.
I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough, though it is fairly bloated.
Earlier versions of that might be better.
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or perhaps you've got earlier sources
squirreled away?
It occurred to me (and before I saw Peter Corlett?s post) to go looking for some of the
old CD-ROMs that have been uploaded to archive.org, and I found this one:
https://archive.org/details/CDROM_March92
"Source Code CDROM?
I think it has two versions of nn, 6.4 (from 1990, in UNIX_C/USENET) and 6.3 (from 1989,
in USENET/COMPSRCS/UNIX/VOLUME19). Which makes me think that older versions will likely
predate the CD-ROM era if they can be found at all. I get the idea that nn may not have
escaped from Europe until that comp.sources.unix release of 6.3 in 1989.
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989,
what software were you using?
rn on SunOS, from about 1986 or 1987, on differing hosts. In all cases other folks
installed it and I did not notice what versions were involved. Continued with it until
1992 when I switched to GNUS on a SPARCstation. Between 1994 and 1997 I ran strn on a Sun
3/60 which was also running C News with news delivery via uucp, but switched to Gnus when
I built a new system with a PC and FreeBSD.
-Frank McConnell
5:33 p.m.
Just a quick look at http://sources.vsta.org/comp.sources.unix/ found
"rn version 4.3" from 1985 in volume 1. Others may be available if
you look thru the archive.
bill
On 05/09/2018 05:23 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote:
On May 8, 2018, at 9:23, Seth Morabito wrote:
I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and
I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to find old source code for Usenet
(B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find source code for old news
*readers*.
I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to at the time. The oldest version
I've found so far is nn 6.4, which is too big to compile on a 3B2/400. If I could get
my hands on 6.1 or earlier, I think I'd have a good chance.
I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough, though it is fairly bloated.
Earlier versions of that might be better.
Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or perhaps you've got earlier sources
squirreled away?
It occurred to me (and before I saw Peter Corlett?s post) to go looking for some of the
old CD-ROMs that have been uploaded to archive.org, and I found this one:
https://archive.org/details/CDROM_March92
"Source Code CDROM?
I think it has two versions of nn, 6.4 (from 1990, in UNIX_C/USENET) and 6.3 (from 1989,
in USENET/COMPSRCS/UNIX/VOLUME19). Which makes me think that older versions will likely
predate the CD-ROM era if they can be found at all. I get the idea that nn may not have
escaped from Europe until that comp.sources.unix release of 6.3 in 1989.
As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you using?
rn on SunOS, from about 1986 or 1987, on differing hosts. In all cases other folks
installed it and I did not notice what versions were involved. Continued with it until
1992 when I switched to GNUS on a SPARCstation. Between 1994 and 1997 I ran strn on a Sun
3/60 which was also running C News with news delivery via uucp, but switched to Gnus when
I built a new system with a PC and FreeBSD.
-Frank McConnell
5:38 p.m.
On 05/09/2018 03:23 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote:
It occurred to me (and before I saw Peter Corlett?s
post) to go looking
for some of the old CD-ROMs that have been uploaded to archive.org,
and I found this one:
https://archive.org/details/CDROM_March92
While browsing through the file_listings-ls.txt file I noticed the
following:
13266 200 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 204800 Feb 26 1989
./unix_c/editors/teco.tar
Which jogged my a memory that someone was looking for a copy of TECO.
Now to find the message that I'm remembering.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
5:58 p.m.
On May 9, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 05/09/2018 03:23 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote:
I recalled using NewsGrazer quite a bit on my NeXT. Source not available, but I did spot
the alternative ?Alexandra? which does include source code:
http://www.mulle-kybernetik.com/software/Alexandra/html/Download.html
or
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/NEXTSTEP/Apps/Internet/News/
Source available under GNU public license.
I have no good idea what the effort would be to port this to your favorite platform;
possibly prohibitive. I hope it?s useful in at least some fashion.
- Mark
It occurred to me (and before I saw Peter
Corlett?s post) to go looking for some of the old CD-ROMs that have been uploaded to
archive.org, and I found this one:
https://archive.org/details/CDROM_March92
While browsing through the file_listings-ls.txt file I noticed the following:
13266 200 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 204800 Feb 26 1989
./unix_c/editors/teco.tar
Which jogged my a memory that someone was looking for a copy of TECO. Now to find the
message that I'm remembering.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
2270
days inactive
2272
days old
18 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
fmc＠reanimators.org -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
gordon+cctalk＠drogon.net -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
mtapley＠swri.edu -
RichA＠livingcomputers.org -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
taborj＠obsolete.site -
web＠loomcom.com