I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum (http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm), and they asked me if I had or knew anyone who had an actual copy of Gordon Moore's original Moore's Law article. I don't, but perhaps someone here does? They didn't say why, but I presume they want to acquire it. The exact citation is: "Cramming More Components Onto Integrated Circuits" Author: Gordon E. Moore Publication: Electronics, April 19, 1965 There is a scan (I guess from a library copy) at http://www.intel.com/research/silicon/moorespaper.pdf Jim

Well no matter what we may think about the Intel behemoth now, one can't deny Moore's accomplishments. From his time with Shockley, the Fairchild start-up by Shockleys "the traitorist eight", and then founding Intel with Noyce and Graves. What I was surprised at, was the date of the "Electronics" issue. I didn't know they went back that far. I have about 20 issues from 80 and 83 including the massive April 80 'Special Commemortive Issue". I value them for resources more than my 80-83 Bytes. Talk about elitist ! "Subscriptions limited to professional persons with active responsability in electronics technology. No subscriptions accepted without complete identification of subscriber name, title or job function, company or organization, and product manufactured or services performed. Based on information supplied, the publishers reserve the right to reject non-qualified requests." Makes me wonder if I could be prosecuted just for having them. :^) Lawrence lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" <lgwalker(a)mts.net> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:12 AM Subject: Re: Request from Intel's Museum didn't They actually go back pre WW2. I have bound copies of full years from the mid thirties up through WW2 as far as 1949/50. Great reading-specially the adverts! Dave Brown Christchurch NZ

For those that do not have these - do not despair. Almost every engineering school library should have a complete (or near) set. My favorites are the issues from the 1960 era - most every ad has some sort of tie to missiles. William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: A significant point to make: With regards to the 4004, it wasn't terrifically innovative. Many people who designed LSI circuits of the era considered a "processor on a chip" the next logical step. By the time Intel did it the technology was feasible enough to do so without requiring a mammoth effort (3 people did it). The real envelope pushers were Ray Holt with the CADC (20-bit serial architecture) circa 1969-1970 and Four Phase Systems with their AL-1 (8-bit parallel architecture) circa 1968-1969. Intel's effort was actually mediocre compared to what was possible at the time of the 4004's development. There wasn't really any practical application for the CPU-on-a-chip (until Busicom decided that was the architecture they wanted for their calculators) and so there was no quick rush to develop one when it became possible. TI was right on the heels of Intel with their TMS1000. Other companies quickly followed with microprocessors the following year, that were far more powerful than anything Intel had (AMI for one). So to say all the other companies were playing catch-up is misleading. It could be argued that once the market for such a chip was proven by Intel, other companies quickly jumped on the bandwagon. A good website to reference: http://www.datamath.org/Story/Intel.htm Moore's Law is definitely significant as it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that drove the computer industry to try to obey it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

I regard some things about Intel pretty highly, like their managers. No-one seems to be a total offence like Gates/Ballmer/etc. do to me. On the contrary, reading Andy Groves' philosophy (in the SJ Mercury news) was a real pleasure. However, in that Intel has to service Microsoft in keeping its half of the monopoly going, that's where all the compromises have to be made. I really think they have great potential otherwise. BTW I think Moore's law is totally on point, for the whole industry. John A.

Or PowerPC :-) I'd like a 64-bit 6502 myself. Someone is working on a 32-bit one, however. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mmmm, Windows user. Crunchy and good with ketchup. -- Dave McGuire ---------

Cameron Kaiser wrote: PowerPC has both segmentation and paging. Segmentation and base-bounds is ugly dead-tech from last century which has been proven redundant when a grown-up paging mechanism is provided. May segmentation rest in (odd-sized, hard-to-manage, barely demand-swappable) pieces. :) If someone tells me you can turn off the segmentation logic in some variant of PowerPC, I might change my mind about it. :) Agreed. 6502 expanded to 32 bits would be very nice. Some changes would be needed to make it gogofast, like a good cache system and possibly a more load/store orientation and more registers. Which is pretty much what ARM is. Have you looked at the ARM instruction set? It actually has a lot of similarity to a "stretch" 6502. :)

Ross Archer wrote: Just take a RISC core, translate all your CISC instructions to RISC, and tell your marketing to avoid saying anything about RISC ;-) Oh, intel is trying ;-) To put the same effort in the IA-64. But still doesn't fly. And, as a side note, they probably get itanium earlier to classiccmp than to general market. Cooking for 9 years already ;-) cheers