29 Aug
2004
29 Aug
'04
8:01 a.m.
Which models of the MicroVAX3100 were limited to <1GB boot disks?
I've a stack of MicroVAX3100 model 30s that I'm tarting up & I'm trying to
acquire HDDs
for and couldn't find if they were affected by the limitation?
ta
greg
(ps : anyone UK want a 3100? Just ask. shed is full of the things
rescued from Witchy / Jules Richardson :)
30 Aug
30 Aug
1:25 a.m.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2004 at 06:01:33PM +0100, classiccomp-tech(a)bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk
wrote:
Which models of the MicroVAX3100 were limited to
<1GB boot disks?
AFAIK the limitation is that the boot partition must be entirely
in the
first GB, but you can use bigger disks.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
6 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S) that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to get
messed around by the PC BIOS INT13 doing stupid CHS translation on the
otherwise LBA device and potentially miss some blocks at the end of
the device? Does Linux go through the SCSI cards BIOS or does it talk
directly to the carsd hardware & so do raw LBA?
Of course, it probably all depends on the version of linux I'd use.
Any suggestions?
ta
greg
(note, I've not actually got a linux box setup to do this at this
point in time, I've an AHA2940 lined up to stick in a PC and then
figure out the wonderfull world of SCSI on linux...)
31 Aug
31 Aug
2:45 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
classiccomp-tech(a)bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk wrote:
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S)
that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to get
messed around by the PC BIOS INT13 doing stupid CHS translation on the
otherwise LBA device and potentially miss some blocks at the end of
the device? Does Linux go through the SCSI cards BIOS or does it talk
directly to the carsd hardware & so do raw LBA?
Of course, it probably all depends on the version of linux I'd use.
Any suggestions?
ta
greg
(note, I've not actually got a linux box setup to do this at this
point in time, I've an AHA2940 lined up to stick in a PC and then
figure out the wonderfull world of SCSI on linux...)
Jerome Fine replies:
I realize that you are probably not running Windows 98 SE,
but I have a Pentium III running Windows 98 SE (because I
use E11 to run PDP-11 programs and this is the ONLY
operating system which works) and use GHOST for backups.
I also have an AHA2940 as well and I see that GHOST has
an option to make exact copies of ANYTHING! So you
don't even need to have a directory that GHOST recognizes.
Just thought this might be helpful????
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
3:29 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
>>>> "Jerome" == Jerome H Fine
<jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to> writes:
Jerome> I realize that you are probably not running Windows 98 SE,
Jerome> but I have a Pentium III running Windows 98 SE (because I use
Jerome> E11 to run PDP-11 programs and this is the ONLY operating
Jerome> system which works)
I've said this before.... Linux seems to work just fine for me,
including hairy stuff like networking.
paul
1 Sep
1 Sep
5:47 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Paul Koning wrote:
Jerome> Jerome H Fine
<jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to> writes:
Jerome> I realize that you are probably not running Windows 98 SE,
Jerome> but I have a Pentium III running Windows 98 SE (because I use
Jerome> E11 to run PDP-11 programs and this is the ONLY operating
Jerome> system which works)
I've said this before.... Linux seems to work just fine for me,
including hairy stuff like networking.
Jerome Fine replies:
I accept that Linux versions of E11 work very well, but I require
one very special feature of the VT100 emulation:
132 character text lines under KED within RT-11
Does E11 under Linux allow this?
I have tried a number of other Windows operating systems, but
with the same hardware, only Windows 98 SE seems to work.
I understand that Windows 95 works as well, but I did not have
the correct AGP board at the time.
One other aspect of the VT100 emulation is that when I use a
standard PC keyboard with the 6 keys above the arrow keys,
I am able to convert them to operate like the 6 EDIT keys on
a VT220 keyboard (LK201). This allows me to use many of
the features of the VT220 / LK201 keyboard. In addition, I
have mapped the F1 - F12 PC keys into F6 - F20 for the
LK201 keyboard (F14 was not possible). As a result, when
I use the SL: (Single Line Editor) under RT-11, I have many
extra features not available on a VT100. I also tested these
features with a real DEC VT220 and the results were very
satisfying.
I would appreciate any help in using Linux with E11 for these
2 aspects I have just mentioned.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:31 a.m.
New subject: E11/Linux and xterm (was: Re: Imaging SCSI hard disks)
>>>> "Jerome" == Jerome H Fine
<jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to> writes:
> Paul Koning wrote:
Jerome> Jerome H Fine
<jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to> writes: I realize that
Jerome> you are probably not running Windows 98 SE, but I have a
Jerome> Pentium III running Windows 98 SE (because I use E11 to run
Jerome> PDP-11 programs and this is the ONLY operating system which
Jerome> works)
> I've said this before.... Linux seems to work
just fine for me,
> including hairy stuff like networking.
Jerome> Jerome Fine replies:
Jerome> I accept that Linux versions of E11 work very well, but I
Jerome> require one very special feature of the VT100 emulation: 132
Jerome> character text lines under KED within RT-11 Does E11 under
Jerome> Linux allow this?
Sure looks that way. I don't have KED nor RT-11, but I just did 132
column mode with VTEDIT.TEC on RSTS/E.
Recipe:
xterm -132
start E11 in the xterm window
Done.
Jerome> One other aspect of the VT100 emulation is that when I use a
Jerome> standard PC keyboard with the 6 keys above the arrow keys, I
Jerome> am able to convert them to operate like the 6 EDIT keys on a
Jerome> VT220 keyboard (LK201). ...
I haven't tried that sort of thing. Being a TECO guy, I don't have
much use for the F keys.
paul
6:50 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Under X11, use
xterm -132
as your terminal, and 132 column switching escape sequences works.
I don't know why they don't just enable this by default. You can also
turn it on via shift-middleclick.
Paul Koning
wrote:
Jerome> Jerome H Fine
<jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to> writes:
Jerome> I realize that you are probably not running Windows 98 SE,
Jerome> but I have a Pentium III running Windows 98 SE (because I use
Jerome> E11 to run PDP-11 programs and this is the ONLY operating
Jerome> system which works)
I've said this before.... Linux seems to work just fine for me,
including hairy stuff like networking.
Jerome Fine replies:
I accept that Linux versions of E11 work very well, but I require
one very special feature of the VT100 emulation:
132 character text lines under KED within RT-11
Does E11 under Linux allow this?
I have tried a number of other Windows operating
systems, but
with the same hardware, only Windows 98 SE seems to work.
I understand that Windows 95 works as well, but I did not have
the correct AGP board at the time.
One other aspect of the VT100 emulation is that when I use a
standard PC keyboard with the 6 keys above the arrow keys,
I am able to convert them to operate like the 6 EDIT keys on
a VT220 keyboard (LK201). This allows me to use many of
the features of the VT220 / LK201 keyboard. In addition, I
have mapped the F1 - F12 PC keys into F6 - F20 for the
LK201 keyboard (F14 was not possible). As a result, when
I use the SL: (Single Line Editor) under RT-11, I have many
extra features not available on a VT100. I also tested these
features with a real DEC VT220 and the results were very
satisfying.
if you shift-leftclick and enable the vt220 keyboard, xterm maps
PF1-PF4 to F1-F4, and most of the Fn keys to the
corresponging F key on the PC keyboard.
Some other keys (help, etc.) get mapped to shift-Fn keys.
I would appreciate any help in using Linux with E11 for
these
2 aspects I have just mentioned.
31 Aug
31 Aug
2:57 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S)
that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to get
Well, I can't really speak for the specific hardware you're going to use.
However, I've taken 100MB and 200MB IBM drives out of my PDP-11/73,
connected them to a Linux box via a SCSI controller, dd'd them off to a disk
image. I've then ftp'd the disk image to a Mac, written the disk image to
CD-R. Then taken the CD-R, placed it in the PDP-11/73's CD-ROM drive and
booted the PDP-11 off of CD-ROM.
What I've not attempted to do is dd a disk image back to a SCSI HD. It's on
my list of things to try, but who knows what decade I'll finally find the
time.
Zane
8:23 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I haven't done this on a PDP-11, but have done it with SCO Unix,
Linux, and FreeBSD drives. It's all geometry. I do know that BSD v2
sets partitions on cylinder boundaries, so the principles should be the
same as in later platforms.
You need a target disk with the same head/sector geometry as the
source. The number of cylinders is a lot less critical, as long as the
target isn't smaller than the source.
You can actually get away with using an unmatched target as long as
fsck never runs. :)
I dunno about other OS disks. The little I know about RT-11's
filesystem implies that most any old disk should work.
Doc
I've a
couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S) that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to get
Well, I can't really speak for the specific hardware you're going to use.
However, I've taken 100MB and 200MB IBM drives out of my PDP-11/73,
connected them to a Linux box via a SCSI controller, dd'd them off to a disk
image. I've then ftp'd the disk image to a Mac, written the disk image to
CD-R. Then taken the CD-R, placed it in the PDP-11/73's CD-ROM drive and
booted the PDP-11 off of CD-ROM.
What I've not attempted to do is dd a disk image back to a SCSI HD. It's on
my list of things to try, but who knows what decade I'll finally find the
time.
8:51 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
What I've
not attempted to do is dd a disk image back to a SCSI HD. It's on
my list of things to try, but who knows what decade I'll finally find the
time.
I haven't done this on a PDP-11, but have done it with SCO Unix,
Linux, and FreeBSD drives. It's all geometry. I do know that BSD
v2 sets partitions on cylinder boundaries, so the principles should
be the same as in later platforms.
You need a target disk with the same head/sector geometry as the
source. The number of cylinders is a lot less critical, as long as
the target isn't smaller than the source.
You can actually get away with using an unmatched target as long
as fsck never runs. :)
I dunno about other OS disks. The little I know about RT-11's
filesystem implies that most any old disk should work.
1 Sep
1 Sep
4:25 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy
<healyzh(a)aracnet.com> writes:
Zane> My idea is actually to first dd the HD to a disk image, then
Zane> prep that disk image under SIMH or E11. Copy the data I want
Zane> on the HD to the image using the emulator, and then dd it back
Zane> to the HD. Logically it should work just fine. With RT-11,
Zane> you shouldn't even need to dd the HD to a disk image, just
Zane> create whatever size disk image and dd it out there. The other
Zane> OS's would be a bit more picky.
Not necessarily. If you tell the simulator that it has an MSCP disk,
the OS should just accept whatever size it is, because the rule of
MSCP is that the disk tells the OS its size and the OS makes no
assumptions. Certainly RSTS does this correctly.
As for "geometry" -- MSCP doesn't have any that the OS can see, or at
best it has just some vague hints that actually serve no real
purpose. That certainly fits with modern drives -- anything built in
the last 10 years or so has a software geometry that has no connection
to reality, and a real geometry that's (a) not visible, (b) much more
complex than tracks and cylinders of fixed size. Look at IDE disks,
for example; they all claim to have 15 heads and 63 sectors, or
whatever is the max in the old IDE conventions. But those numbers
have nothing to do with reality, they exist only for backward
compatibility.
paul
6:05 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> writes:
Zane> My idea is actually to first dd the HD to a disk image, then
Zane> prep that disk image under SIMH or E11. Copy the data I want
Zane> on the HD to the image using the emulator, and then dd it back
Zane> to the HD. Logically it should work just fine. With RT-11,
Zane> you shouldn't even need to dd the HD to a disk image, just
Zane> create whatever size disk image and dd it out there. The other
Zane> OS's would be a bit more picky.
Not necessarily. If you tell the simulator that it has an MSCP disk,
the OS should just accept whatever size it is, because the rule of
MSCP is that the disk tells the OS its size and the OS makes no
assumptions. Certainly RSTS does this correctly.
As for "geometry" -- MSCP doesn't have any that the OS can see, or at
best it has just some vague hints that actually serve no real
purpose. That certainly fits with modern drives -- anything built in
the last 10 years or so has a software geometry that has no connection
to reality, and a real geometry that's (a) not visible, (b) much more
complex than tracks and cylinders of fixed size. Look at IDE disks,
for example; they all claim to have 15 heads and 63 sectors, or
whatever is the max in the old IDE conventions. But those numbers
have nothing to do with reality, they exist only for backward
compatibility. 
6:03 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 22:48, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
<snip>
HELP!! Something seems to be missing. Is SIMH being
used
with SCSI hard disk drives are are the SCSI hard disk drives
first being copied to a hard disk file AFTER which SIMH does:
ATTACH RQ0: hard_disk_file.DSK
I don't know of any command that allows SIMH to ATTACH
a raw SCSI hard drive like E11 allows. What am I missing
in this discussion? PLEASE!
Wouldn't something like:
attach rq0 /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s2
(Or for Linux)
attach rq0 /dev/sda
for SIMH work? (It'll require root, or a chown of the device) And, as
I've never tried this.. YMMV..
David
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
31 Aug
31 Aug
8:57 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
David Holland wrote:
--
---
Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to
the beginning.
Wouldn't something like:
attach rq0 /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s2
(Or for Linux)
attach rq0 /dev/sda
for SIMH work? (It'll require root, or a chown of the device) And, as
I've never tried this.. YMMV..
David
So, if I ran SIMH under freebsd
attach rq0 /dev/fd0.rx50
and I could attach my physical "emulated rx50" to simh??
(freebsd has a fd0.rx50 floppy device that I have yet to try)
Cheers
Tom
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:49 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
>>>> "Tom" == Tom Ponsford
<tponsford(a)theriver.com> writes:
Tom> David Holland wrote:
>
>
> Wouldn't something like:
>
> attach rq0 /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s2
>
> (Or for Linux)
>
> attach rq0 /dev/sda
>
> for SIMH work? (It'll require root, or a chown of the device)
> And, as I've never tried this.. YMMV..
>
> David
>
Tom> So, if I ran SIMH under freebsd
Tom> attach rq0 /dev/fd0.rx50
Tom> and I could attach my physical "emulated rx50" to simh??
Tom> (freebsd has a fd0.rx50 floppy device that I have yet to try)
Hm... yes, that would work, if the OS has enough magic to set up the
floppy drive to RX50 compatible layout (10 sectors per track, not 9)
and does the address remapping to handle the interleave and cylinder
shift that RX50s use. Failing that, you can handle those parts at the
application level if the OS at least gives you some primitives.
That's what I did in Linux for RX50 support in "rstsflx".
paul
1 Sep
1 Sep
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 10:48:11PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
HELP!! Something seems to be missing. Is SIMH being
used
with SCSI hard disk drives are are the SCSI hard disk drives
first being copied to a hard disk file AFTER which SIMH does:
ATTACH RQ0: hard_disk_file.DSK
I don't know of any command that allows SIMH to ATTACH
a raw SCSI hard drive like E11 allows. What am I missing
in this discussion? PLEASE!!!
I have no idea how to do this with any version of Windows, but UNIX/Linux/etc.
have always given you access to the raw disk. In my case, the relevant
command would resemble something like...
ATTACH RQ0: /dev/sda
(where 'sd' is the driver, and 'a' is the controller).
This works with any and all emulators since to UNIX, unlike Windows, everything
is a file. "Devices" are not special entities to open()/close() calls, etc.
I ran into this sort of problem in reverse when I was playing with various
VMS emulators under Windows - there was no way to stick a physical VMS
distro CD into the CD-ROM drive and have the emulator access it - when I
sought help, the only answer I got was to use Linux :-) or to extract an
image file of the CD and stick that on the Windows box and 'mount' that.
If anyone has any solutions to this difference in operation between the
two environments, I'd love to hear it.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Sep-2004 02:50 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -50.8 F (-46.0 C) Windchill -87.59 F (-66.5 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 16.3 kts Grid 015 Barometer 680.4 mb (10611. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
6:30 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
In my case, the relevant command would resemble
something like...
ATTACH RQ0: /dev/sda
(where 'sd' is the driver, and 'a' is
the controller).
This works with any and all emulators since to UNIX,
unlike Windows,
everything is a file. "Devices" are not special entities to
open()/close() calls, etc.
Well, devices _are_ often special in various ways. Most notably here,
disk devices normally do not support accesses that are not a multiple
of the sector size, aligned on sector boundaries. (Since most
emulators don't try to do anything else with disks, they probably will
work fine. This is partly just general misimpression correcting, but
also partly because you may run into trouble if you try to use
something like a CD - the CD blocksize is fundamentally 2352, which
turns into 2K for a data CD (the other 304 bytes going for ECC and
suchlike), and many CD drives don't support sub-2K accesses, meaning
you may not be able to use a CD to back even a read-only disk.)
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:12 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
On Wednesday 01 September 2004 22:30, der Mouse wrote:
Well, devices _are_ often special in various ways.
Most notably
here, disk devices normally do not support accesses that are not a
multiple of the sector size, aligned on sector boundaries. (Since
most emulators don't try to do anything else with disks, they
probably will work fine. This is partly just general misimpression
correcting, but also partly because you may run into trouble if you
try to use something like a CD - the CD blocksize is fundamentally
2352, which turns into 2K for a data CD (the other 304 bytes going
for ECC and suchlike), and many CD drives don't support sub-2K
accesses, meaning you may not be able to use a CD to back even a
read-only disk.)
A proper OS device driver will figure out that you're not
reading/writing a whole block (or on a block boundary), and give you
back or modify only what's required, when using a read()/write()
syscall or fread()/fwrite(). :)
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:41 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks
<dickset(a)amanda.spole.gov> writes:
Ethan> On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 10:48:11PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine
Ethan> wrote:
> HELP!! Something seems to be missing. Is SIMH
being used with
> SCSI hard disk drives are are the SCSI hard disk drives first
> being copied to a hard disk file AFTER which SIMH does: ATTACH
> RQ0: hard_disk_file.DSK I don't know of any command that allows
> SIMH to ATTACH a raw SCSI hard drive like E11 allows. What am I
> missing in this discussion? PLEASE!!!
Ethan> I have no idea how to do this with any version of Windows, but
Ethan> UNIX/Linux/etc. have always given you access to the raw disk.
Ethan> In my case, the relevant command would resemble something
Ethan> like...
Ethan> ATTACH RQ0: /dev/sda
Ethan> (where 'sd' is the driver, and 'a' is the controller).
Ethan> This works with any and all emulators since to UNIX, unlike
Ethan> Windows, everything is a file. "Devices" are not special
Ethan> entities to open()/close() calls, etc.
It's not quite that simple.
Most Unices (though not Linux) have two ways to look at disks, the
regular "block" device, and a "character"[sic] also called
"raw". To
do raw disk access you have to use the raw device.
Second, the application may need to know the size of the disk. With a
file that's easy: seek to the end, and ask for the position. While
devices are "files", the seek and position technique doesn't work
there, at least not on Linux when I was digging into this some years
ago. You *can* usually find out how big a device is, but the means
are specific to each flavor of the OS.
paul
6:57 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Jerome Fine replies:
HELP!! Something seems to be missing. Is SIMH being used
with SCSI hard disk drives are are the SCSI hard disk drives
first being copied to a hard disk file AFTER which SIMH does:
ATTACH RQ0: hard_disk_file.DSK
I don't know of any command that allows SIMH to ATTACH
a raw SCSI hard drive like E11 allows. What am I missing
in this discussion? PLEASE!!!
Under Linux, I attach to the cdrom using
ATTACH RQ1: /dev/cdrom
Hard disk should be similiar (something like /dev/sda).
I don't think simh for Windows allows for raw device access like that.
Paul Koning
wrote:
>>>>"Zane" == Zane H Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
Zane> My idea is actually to first dd the HD to a disk image,
then
Zane> prep that disk image under SIMH or E11. Copy the data I want
Zane> on the HD to the image using the emulator, and then dd it back
Zane> to the HD. Logically it should work just fine. With RT-11,
Zane> you shouldn't even need to dd the HD to a disk image, just
Zane> create whatever size disk image and dd it out there. The other
Zane> OS's would be a bit more picky.
Not necessarily. If you tell the simulator that it has an MSCP disk,
the OS should just accept whatever size it is, because the rule of
MSCP is that the disk tells the OS its size and the OS makes no
assumptions. Certainly RSTS does this correctly.
As for "geometry" -- MSCP doesn't have any that the OS can see, or at
best it has just some vague hints that actually serve no real
purpose. That certainly fits with modern drives -- anything built in
the last 10 years or so has a software geometry that has no connection
to reality, and a real geometry that's (a) not visible, (b) much more
complex than tracks and cylinders of fixed size. Look at IDE disks,
for example; they all claim to have 15 heads and 63 sectors, or
whatever is the max in the old IDE conventions. But those numbers
have nothing to do with reality, they exist only for backward
compatibility.
7 Sep
7 Sep
7:39 p.m.
New subject: Who is "sysman-inc" in eBay?
Anybody know just who is sysman-inc on eBay?
He seems to snapping up alot of PDP parts at pretty high prices..
Leaving none for us poor hobbyist... :-{
I guess he is a purchaser at a part dealer?
/wai-sun
8 Sep
8 Sep
2:51 p.m.
New subject: Who is "sysman-inc" in eBay?
On Sep 7, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
Anybody know just who is sysman-inc on eBay?
He seems to snapping up alot of PDP parts at pretty high prices..
Leaving none for us poor hobbyist... :-{
I guess he is a purchaser at a part dealer?
/wai-sun
He's a hobbyist (and a friend of mine) with more money than most
hobbyists.
He uses his business name for all his internet dealings.
He's got (at least) a PDP-8, an -8i, and an -8e plus some PDP-11's.
Definitely a preservationist, but a private one.
Mike
3:27 p.m.
New subject: Who is "sysman-inc" in eBay?
On Sep 7, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
However, while he might be a hobbyist there are also several dealers that
will bid quite high on anything that they consider "interesting" at which
point the price is likely to go higher than most any hobbyist is willing to
pay. Of course at least a couple of them lurk on this list as well.
Zane
Anybody know just who is sysman-inc on eBay?
He seems to snapping up alot of PDP parts at pretty high prices..
Leaving none for us poor hobbyist... :-{
I guess he is a purchaser at a part dealer?
/wai-sun
He's a hobbyist (and a friend of mine) with more money than most
hobbyists.
He uses his business name for all his internet dealings.
He's got (at least) a PDP-8, an -8i, and an -8e plus some PDP-11's.
Definitely a preservationist, but a private one.
Mike
1 Sep
1 Sep
5:52 a.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without masking the holy DEC and
PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
Could someone please take a closeup photo of the DEC/PDP logo on their
11/03 or 11/23 and send it to me? Or point me to a site which have it? I
need to match the paint for the logo restoration.
Contact me offlist if you wish:
squidster3128 _at_ yahoo _dot_ com
/wai-sun
3:42 p.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
I have an 11/23+ that I can take a picture of but it won't be right away.
We have a major hurricane heading directly here and it should arrive
Saturday so I'm BUSY getting prepared. FWIW the 11/23 was outside during
the last hurricane and didn't blow away. I hope it won't blow away in this
one!
Joe
At 10:52 PM 9/1/04 +0800, you wrote:
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without masking
the holy DEC and
PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
Could someone please take a closeup photo of the DEC/PDP logo on their
11/03 or 11/23 and send it to me? Or point me to a site which have it? I
need to match the paint for the logo restoration.
Contact me offlist if you wish:
squidster3128 _at_ yahoo _dot_ com
/wai-sun
4:54 p.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
Wai-Sun Chia wrote:
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without
masking the holy DEC and
PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
I don't think it's been defamed (or defaced). The 11/03-L front
panel is embossed, but not colored.
http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/
Warning - These were taken in less-than-good light, and are fairly
large files - about 250KB each. The third one - pdp1103l-3.jpg is the
best shot.
http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/tn/pdp1103l-3.jpg.html
Doc
21 Sep
21 Sep
2:26 a.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
At 10:52 AM 9/1/2004, you wrote:
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without masking
the holy DEC
and PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
Could someone please take a closeup photo of the DEC/PDP logo on their
11/03 or 11/23 and send it to me? Or point me to a site which have it? I
need to match the paint for the logo restoration.
Was it like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=51…
Ed K.
22 Sep
22 Sep
6:06 a.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
I've since discovered/found out that my BA11-N (PDP-11/03L) is indeed
originally monochrome (DEC Gray).
But there is a late version of the BA11-M (PDP-11/03) which has the
embossed PDP logo in white on a DEC maroon background (so says Megan).
http://hampage.hu/pdp-11/kepek/pdp1103.jpg
It seems that it's quite rare too...
(note also the 2 rivets)
Ed Kelleher wrote:
At 10:52 AM 9/1/2004, you wrote:
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without
masking the holy DEC
and PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
Could someone please take a closeup photo of the DEC/PDP logo on their
11/03 or 11/23 and send it to me? Or point me to a site which have it?
I need to match the paint for the logo restoration.
Was it like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=51…
Ed K. 
10:16 a.m.
New subject: 11/23 or 11/03 picture of DEC/PDP logo
Some idiot resprayed my BA11-N chassis, without masking
the holy DEC
and PDP logo. So now, I'm going to have to restore it. :-)
How do you know it was painted over? Is it a label which is
adhesive-mounted to the surface which has been sprayed? Or
is it something embossed into the metal. If the latter, they
didn't have a color scheme beyond the color spray-painted
by DEC over the metal...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com |
| Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com |
| SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) |
| 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
1 Sep
1 Sep
6 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
Doc Shipley wrote:
I dunno about other OS disks. The little I know
about RT-11's
filesystem implies that most any old disk should work.
Jerome Fine replies:
Normally, I find it a bit inconvenient to use a hard disk
to copy stuff back and forth from RT-11 running under
E11 on a Pentium and a real DEC PDP-11. If someone
is trying to do this and is having problems, I will suggest
how I solved the problem.
For myself, while I have used a hard SCSI disk drive
to be sure it is possible, I find the use of magneto optical
media a bit more convenient. Since the media is removable,
the PC does not complain when I boot that the media is
not in the drive. Then under E11, I am able to:
MOUNT DU0: SCSI0:
Of course, on a real DEC PDP-11, I must use a SCSI
host adapter. I have a CQD 220/TM which does the
job along with an Adaptec AHA2940-AU on the PC.
A Sony SMO S-501 drive on each system completes
the needed hardware to allow me to transfer 300 MBytes
back an forth. I also use the MO media as a backup for
the 600 MByte ESDI hard drives (Hitachi DK515-78)
on the real DEC PDP-11. Since each ESDI hard drive
has 20 RT-11 partitions, I use both sides of each MO
media PLUS 4 RT-11 partitions from another media.
It required very careful co-ordination, but is MUCH
better than a tape since any small changes can be
made on the MO media to keep the backup up to date.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
31 Aug
31 Aug
3:18 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S)
that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on
them, will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to
get messed around by the PC BIOS INT13
Well, I don't know Linux, but on NetBSD, once booting is done the BIOS
should be completely out of the loop.
I've moved disks between peecees and Suns (whose ROM code speaks SCSI
native and thus doesn't have the C/H/S silliness peecees still haven't
managed to get rid of) with no problems at all.
on the otherwise LBA device
Um, LBA is an IDE thing, as I understand it, so it doesn't really apply
(though the way SCSI addresses disk blocks is conceptually similar to
what little I understand of LBA: it treats the disk as large
one-dimensional array of blocks, indexed by consecutive integers).
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
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10:55 p.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:00:00 +0100
classiccomp-tech(a)bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk wrote:
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S)
that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device,
It will copy every sector from the
disk, from the first to the last.
or am I going to get
messed around by the PC BIOS INT13 doing stupid CHS translation on the
otherwise LBA device and potentially miss some blocks at the end of
the device?
CHS and LBA are more or less IDE / BIOS "problems".
Does Linux go through the SCSI cards BIOS or does it
talk
directly to the carsd hardware & so do raw LBA?
Linux does not use the BIOS to
access disks. Even for IDE disks.
Of course, it probably all depends on the version of
linux I'd use.
The version has no effect on this.
If you have no Linux machine yet, you may have a look at "knoppix".
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
1 Sep
1 Sep
1:52 a.m.
New subject: Imaging SCSI hard disks
On Mon, 2004-08-30 at 15:00, classiccomp-tech(a)bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk
wrote:
I've a couple of SCSI hard drives (DEC RZ24-S)
that I'd like to do a
complete image of. If I stick them in a linux box and do a dd on them,
will it copy all the blocks from the device, or am I going to get
messed around by the PC BIOS INT13 doing stupid CHS translation on the
otherwise LBA device and potentially miss some blocks at the end of
the device? Does Linux go through the SCSI cards BIOS or does it talk
directly to the carsd hardware & so do raw LBA?
Linux will just use the SCSI card's hardware - it won't touch the PC's
BIOS at all, so you've got nothing to worry about there.
Of course, it probably all depends on the version of
linux I'd use.
Not really. Anything from the last 5 or 6 years (maybe longer) should
have support for the 2940 controllers, and procedure will be the same on
all of them.
Actually, I think the first time I ever did this was with the SCSI
interface that was on board a Pro Audio Spectrum sound card way back
when and it worked fine even then...
Any suggestions?
My only experience is really with Slackware and Redhat (and SLS in the
early days!) but they shouldn't give you any problems. Freebsd is
another option and should just work the same way as far as what you're
needing to do.
(note, I've not actually got a linux box setup to
do this at this
point in time, I've an AHA2940 lined up to stick in a PC and then
figure out the wonderfull world of SCSI on linux...)
It all just works - don't worry about it :)
Aside - the DEC drives are formatted to 512 byte sectors aren't they?
I've got some SCSI drives formatted for Acorn hardware that I need to
image, but they're formatted to 256 byte sectors and I'm not sure if I'm
going to run into problems there - probably all sorts of assumptions are
made in software about drives using 512 byte sectors, and I don't think
many SCSI drives will even format to 256 bytes per sector these days...
cheers
Jules
7239
days inactive
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33 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
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classiccomp-tech＠bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk -
dholland＠woh.rr.com -
dickset＠amanda.spole.gov -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jhfinexgs2＠compsys.to -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
kth＠srv.net -
mbg＠theworld.com -
mcesari＠comcast.net -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
Pres＠macro-inc.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
tponsford＠theriver.com -
waisun.chia＠hp.com