Subject: Re: Transistor Substitution
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:11:44 +0100 (BST)
To: cctalk at
classiccmp.org
>> I have a couple of DEC machines which I
need to replace a few components
>> on, and also stock up spares of others. With the transistors and diodes,
>> however, I often can't find a direct replacement - and don't know how to
>> figure out what a modern substitute is.
>>
>> For a 2N3009, for example, I can find basic information and a datasheet
>> online easily enough - but as for choosing a functional, available
>> substitute for it, I'm honestly not even sure where to begin.
[...]
Way too much information.. What he needs to know
is what can he buy now that
should work to replace a 2n3009?
There is a saying in England :
'Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed
him for life'.
Yes Teach a man to fish... Often the problem has greater scope. Recently
I when through a similar situation.. problem was the psrson could solder and
somewhat read a schematic.. Terms like breakdown voltage, Ic, Beta and Ft
were completely lost as he had no context other than what building a lot of
kits taught him.
So sometimes the scope is not only teaching fishing, but what a fish is
and why one wants to catch one.
I try to use that principle when posting here. I try to
show how solve
similar problems in the future. None of us will be around for ever [1]
and I think it's important the information, methods, 'tricks', etc get
passed on
I was trying to be light but maybe a ;-) may have helped.
[1] It would only take one careless mistake when
repairing an SMPSU...
As the bit of the original message I've left above semems to suggest, the
2N3309 is an example, and the OP possibly needs to substitute other
transistors as well.
There are many substitutes possible, likely dozens or more. I picked
one that is generally easy to find in many places.
The other case was without context I ahd to pick a robust solution rather
than one that oen that might work. An example is for simple logic a 2n3904
or the plastic pn2222 should do fine but if it drives a relay or lamp the
added current capability if the 2n2222 is a better choice or maybe 2n2219.
The only case
where they type transistor is a bit fussy is some of the faster
flip chip cards (logic) and SMPS.
Maybe in DEC equipment... But I can assure you that the HP9100 is
'touchy'. It's not particularly high-speed, it's certainly not an SMPSU,
but you will have 'fun' working out what transistors to use.
There were some applications that DEC used transistors that wanted
faster transistors, core drivers and head drivers being those that
easily come to mind.. Others it was sufficient to insure it was SI or Ge
and the proper PNP or NPN.
If the design had any vestage of ECL or other non-saturating logic then a lot
of parameters become important. Then it is more difficult.
SMPSUs are an animal and yes the wrong part there can cause pain or at best
end up in a troubleshooting endless loop.
Some old logic from the days before silicon devices can be fussy as they
use MADT and other generational germainium devices and yes those do not
substitute well without a carefull examination as to how they are applied.
The gates and flipflops from the TX2 are a good example of early fast logic
using germainium transistors. For context fast in early transistor computer
designs is anything over a few megahertz (like greater than 1mhz!).
Allison
-tony