13 Oct
2015
13 Oct
'15
6:08 p.m.
Pictures of the S/130 system I'm building up are at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02
I think the last I posted here... the cpu was up and running, that was the
first piece I refurbished. I took everything out of the rack and cleaned
that up well, and the cpu has been remounted there.
Yesterday I mounted the 6030 dual 8" floppy drive. It was squeaky clean
inside and at power up everything does what it should. However, I can't
proceed further with it as I have no media. The docs say it uses hard sector
8" floppies, which I believe I can find. However, it specifies 8
sectors/track hard sector floppies - and those I've never heard of. Maybe DG
made them special just for their gear, or, maybe the drive or controller or
software was smart enough to expect the more common 32 hard sector floppies
and knew to only pay attention to every 4th sector hole ;) In any case,
before I spend "real dollar$" on media, if anyone has a single piece of 8
sector hard sectored 8" media I'd love to get one for testing :) Getting the
6030 connected to the cpu took a lot of documentation reading. It would seem
that DG didn't believe in anything plugging in to interface boards. Instead,
interface boards went in the cpu with no external connectors. Then you
wirewrap from the backplane from a given slot to one (of a stack) of paddle
boards bolted to the rear of the cpu chassis. Those paddleboards have edge
connectors, and that's where you connect the device cable. Fun stuff.
I started digging in to refurbishing a 6125 mag tape unit to go with the
above system. It has power supply issues. The schematics I have are similar
but not 100% correct so some guessing was involved. Whenever I turned on the
tape unit, any other things (shop light, oscilloscope, etc.) plugged in to
the same circuit would start randomly turning off and on. That is not a good
sign ;) Earth leakage... Checking the snubber circuit on the mains side of
the transformer led me to suspect a mylar that sat between hot and neutral.
I lifted one leg of it (just for testing) and that problem is definitely
gone. Next problem is the power supply makes a loud ringing noise. I believe
that's usually either ceramic disc capacitors or transformers, but I'm
having a really hard time locating the exact source of the sound. I'm going
to remove the power supply from the metal chassis and hook it up externally
(that's how it goes in the rack anyways) and see if I can tell for sure that
is the issue. Other than that, offline tests all work, so that will be
racked up shortly and cabled to the S/130 cpu.
Next on the list is refurbishing the DG 4084 dual cassette tape unit and
racking that. Something tells me media will be unobtainium for that.
Last step will be to refurbish and install a hard drive, most likely I'll
use a 6050.
So... some progress at least :)
J
13 Oct
13 Oct
8:04 p.m.
On 10/13/2015 5:08 PM, Jay West wrote:
Pictures of the S/130 system I'm building up are
at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02
I think the last I posted here... the cpu was up and running, that was the
first piece I refurbished. I took everything out of the rack and cleaned
that up well, and the cpu has been remounted there.
Yesterday I mounted the 6030 dual 8" floppy drive. It was squeaky clean
inside and at power up everything does what it should. However, I can't
proceed further with it as I have no media. The docs say it uses hard sector
8" floppies, which I believe I can find. However, it specifies 8
sectors/track hard sector floppies - and those I've never heard of. Maybe DG
made them special just for their gear, or, maybe the drive or controller or
software was smart enough to expect the more common 32 hard sector floppies
and knew to only pay attention to every 4th sector hole ;)
I see that sector count (0-7) in the 6030 technical reference.
But all of the HS floppies I have for DG are 32 sectors - and many of
those are software distribution floppies for Novas, appropriate to the
6030. They are all labelled DG Diskette (as opposed to /2, /3 or /4),
as per the illustration in the 6030 manual.
SO:
The manual specifies a max sector access time of 166ms, and a min of
1.2ms. 166ms implies a rotational speed of 360 rpm (6 revolutions per
second, or 166ms).
Divide that by 8, and we get sectors about 20ms apart (8 sectors), with
an extra index pulse 1/2 of that, or 10ms.
For 32 sectors they would be at 5.1ms and the extra index pulse would be
1/2 of the 32 sector pulse, or 2.6ms.
Looking at the schematic I have, 001-000797-10 (rev 10), sheet 2, bottom
left quadrant, the index pulse is fed into a one-shot with a time
constant noted of 3.9ms to generate the index pulse - which would be
pretty darn close to 1/2 of the way in between 2.6ms and 5.1ms.
The sector pulse is derived from a counter, U63. The counter has an
input signal labelled "DIV 4" to pins 5 and 6.
Also (this would have saved time had I seen it right away) there is a
timing diagram, 001-000893-00 that shows 5.2ms between sector pulses,
and 2.6ms for the extra index pulse, with pulses being 1.1ms in length
and also shows the 3.9ms one-shot timing.
That cinches it: the design is for 32 sector floppies.
More to follow related to my hardware and software inventory, but I just
got called to dinner.
JRJ
10 p.m.
On 10/13/2015 7:04 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
On 10/13/2015 5:08 PM, Jay West wrote:
More to follow related to my hardware and software inventory, but I just
got called to dinner.
JRJ
Jay (West): FYI, my Nova 4 has the later "Eclipse" series hard drive and
the DSDD soft sectored floppy. I'm a little surprised about the S/130
4234/6030 hard sector floppy combination. You
If anyone needs the below, let me know. Al (Kossow): let me know if you
would like me to send you the images, and how.
The 6030 technical manual identifies these prints:
001-000258 (9 sheets) Disc Cartridge Control [have - not shown because
it didn't have "Diskette" in its name]
001-000797 (2 sheets) Diskette Interface (A) [have - see below]
001-000812 (1 sheet) Diskette Interface (B) [have - see below]
001-000846 (8 sheets) Flow & Timing [have - see below]
001-000893 (2 sheets) Diskette Timing [have - see below]
It looks like the 4234 is dual-purpose: diskette and cartridge drive
control.
I have not scanned any of this stuff in, but have the means to do so,
and would expect to get around to it - but later rather than sooner
unless there is a need now.
Manuals / drawings:
6030:
Manual-759 DG 010-000064-02 MANUAL Diskette Drive Series 6030, 6031
Manual-760 DG 010-000064-05 MANUAL Diskette Drive Series 6030, 6031
Manual-812 DG 014-000065-01 MANUAL Technical Reference Model 6030
Diskette Subsystem
Manual-813 DG 014-000065-01 MANUAL Technical Reference Model 6030
Diskette Subsystem
Manual-959 DG 016-000271-02 MANUAL Mech. IPL Flexible Disc Model 6030/6031
Manual-960 DG 016-000271-11 MANUAL Mech. IPL Flexible Disc Model 6030/6031
4234 controller:
Manual-549 DG 001-000846-01 MANUAL Flow Charts (4234)
Manual-550 DG 001-000846-01 MANUAL Flow Charts (4234)
DG Diskette search (not listed already, with one later reference removed)
Manual-540 DG 001-000796-07 SCHEMATIC Diskette Power Supply (Schematic)
Manual-541 DG 001-000796-12 SCHEMATIC Diskette Power Supply (Schematic)
Manual-542 DG 001-000797-08 MANUAL Diskette Interface (Logic Diagram)
Manual-543 DG 001-000797-10 MANUAL Diskette Interface (Logic Diagram)
Manual-544 DG 001-000797-13 MANUAL Diskette Interface (Logic Diagram)
Manual-547 DG 001-000812-06 MANUAL Diskette Control Track Addressing
Section B (Logic Diagram)
Manual-578 DG 001-000893-00 MANUAL Diskette Adapter Timing S
BASEMENT 1975
Manual-579 DG 001-000893-13 MANUAL Diskette Adaptor Timing
Manual-1236 DG 096-000298-04 LISTING Cartridge/Diskette Diagnostic
Manual-1237 DG 096-000299-05 LISTING Cartridge/Diskette Reliability
(Listing)
Manual-1238 DG 096-000300-04 LISTING Cartridge/Diskette Formatter (Listing)
Software on floppy (Hard sector) (most of which I have imaged as byte
streams in logical sector order)
KIND ID MACHINE CONTENTS COMMENT
DGFHS 1001 NOVA NOVA DOS Starter DK W/O Mag Tape 072-000002-02 (Copy)
DGFHS 1002 NOVA NOVA DOS Starter DK Rev. 3.00 072-000002-04
DGFHS 1003 NOVA NOVA DOS Starter DK Rev. 3.00 072-000002-04 (Copy)
DGFHS 1004 NOVA NOVA DOS SYSGEN Diskette: W/O Mag Tape 072-000003-01
DGFHS 1005 NOVA NOVA DOS SYSGEN Diskette: W/O Mag Tape 072-000003-02 (Copy)
DGFHS 1006 NOVA NOVA DOS UTILITY Diskette W/O Mag Tape 072-000004-01
DGFHS 1007 NOVA NOVA DOS UTILITY Diskette W/O Mag Tape 072-000004-02 (Copy)
DGFHS 1008 NOVA NOVA DOS UTILITIES DK Rev. 3.00 072-000004-04
DGFHS 1009 NOVA NOVA DOS UTILITIES DK 072-000004-?? (Copy, Revision not
shown)
DGFHS 1010 NOVA RTOS Mag Tape Support 072-000006-01 (RTOS DOS Support
not Mag?
DGFHS 1011 NOVA NOVA DOS Starter Diskette With Mag Tape 072-000009-00
DGFHS 1012 NOVA CMSP (Communications Mux Software Pkg?) 072-000018-00
DGFHS 1013 NOVA MicroNOVA Starter DK Rev. 3.00 072-000035-03
DGFHS 1014 NOVA DOS Update 2 for Rev 3.00 072-000241-01
DGFHS 1015 NOVA NOVA RTOS 072-000040-00
DGFHS 1016 NOVA NOVA RTOS on Diskette "072-000040-02 (Rev 6)
""3100"""
DGFHS 1017 NOVA RTOS Rev. 6.20 072-000040-03
DGFHS 1018 NOVA RTOS Update 1 ON Diskette 072-000322-00 (Rev 6)
DGFHS 1019 NOVA Real Time Input/Output System (RTIOS) 072-000048-00
DGFHS 1020 NOVA RDOS Patch on Diskette "072-000091-01A
""3181F"""
DGFHS 1021 NOVA RDOS Patch on Diskette "072-000091-01A (Copy)
""3181F"""
DGFHS 1022 NOVA NRDOS on Diskette 1 of 3 "072-000098-02 ""OLD REV
WIPED"""
DGFHS 1023 NOVA NRDOS on Diskette 2 of 3 "072-000099-02 ""OLD
REV"""
DGFHS 1024 NOVA NRDOS on Diskette 3 of 3 "072-000100-02 ""OLD
REV"""
DGFHS 1025 NOVA RDOS Update 1 on Diskette "072-000091-02 ""OLD
REV"""
DGFHS 1026 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.40 on Diskette 1 of 3 072-000098-03
DGFHS 1027 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.40 on Diskette 2 of 3 072-000099-03
DGFHS 1028 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.40 on Diskette 3 of 3 072-000100-03
DGFHS 1029 NOVA Update 2 for Rev 6.40 RDOS on Diskette 072-000091-03
DGFHS 1030 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.50 DK 1 072-000098-04
DGFHS 1031 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.50 DK 2 072-000099-04
DGFHS 1032 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.50 DK 3 072-000100-04
DGFHS 1033 NOVA NRDOS Rev 6.50 DK 4 072-000543-00
DGFHS 1034 NOVA Update 2 for RDOS Rev 6.50 on DK 072-000091-04
DGFHS 1035 NOVA Update 3 for RDOS on DK Rev. 6.50 DK 1 072-000091-04
DGFHS 1036 NOVA Update 3 for RDOS on DK Rev. 6.50 DK 2 072-000589-00
DGFHS 1037 NOVA NOVA 3 Mapped RDOS Rev 6.60 DK 1 072-000098-05
DGFHS 1038 NOVA NOVA 3 Mapped RDOS Rev 6.60 DK 2 072-000099-05
DGFHS 1039 NOVA NOVA 3 Mapped RDOS Rev 6.60 DK 3 072-000100-05
DGFHS 1040 NOVA NOVA 3 Mapped RDOS Rev 6.60 DK 4 072-000543-01
DGFHS 1041 NOVA Update 1 for RDOS on DK Rev 6.60 072-000091-05
DGFHS 1042 NOVA Update 2 - Nova/Eclipse RDOS Rev 6.60 072-000091-05
DGFHS 1043 NOVA Update 2 - Nova/Eclipse RDOS Rev 6.60 072-000091-05
DGFHS 1044 NOVA RDOS BATCH Processor on Diskette R. 6.20 072-000061
DGFHS 1045 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 1 072-000098-06
DGFHS 1046 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 2 072-000099-06
DGFHS 1047 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 3 072-000100-06
DGFHS 1048 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 4 072-000543-02
DGFHS 1049 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 5 072-000669-00
DGFHS 1050 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 1 072-000098-06
DGFHS 1051 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 2 072-000099-06
DGFHS 1052 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 3 072-000100-06
DGFHS 1053 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 4 072-000543-02
DGFHS 1054 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 6.70 DK 5 072-000669-00
DGFHS 1055 NOVA Update 1 NOVA/Eclipse RDOS Rev. 6.70 072-000091-06
DGFHS 1056 NOVA Update 1 NOVA/Eclipse RDOS Rev. 6.70 072-000091-06
DGFHS 1057 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 7.00 DK 1 072-000098-07
DGFHS 1058 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 7.00 DK 2 072-000099-07
DGFHS 1059 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 7.00 DK 3 072-000100-07
DGFHS 1060 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 7.00 DK 4 072-000543-03
DGFHS 1061 NOVA N Mapped NOVA 3,4 RDOS Rev 7.00 DK 5 072-000669-01
DGFHS 1062 NOVA Update 1, NOVA/Eclipse RDOS Rev 7.00 DK1 072-000091-07
DGFHS 1063 NOVA Update 1, NOVA/Eclipse RDOS Rev 7.00 DK2 072-000589-01
DGFHS 1064 NOVA URDOS Diskette 1 of 3 072-000101-01
DGFHS 1065 NOVA URDOS Diskette 2 of 3 072-000102-01
DGFHS 1066 NOVA URDOS Diskette 3 of 3 072-000103-01
DGFHS 1067 NOVA URDOS Diskette 1 of 3 072-000101-01 (Copy)
DGFHS 1068 NOVA URDOS Diskette 3 of 3 072-000103-01 (Copy)
DGFHS 1069 NOVA SOS FORTRAN IV Compiler 072-000069-00 (Yes, SOS, not DOS)
DGFHS 1070 NOVA DOS FORTRAN IV Runtime & Compiler 072-000005-00
(Checksum Error FORT1.LB)
DGFHS 1071 NOVA DOS FORTRAN IV Runtime & Compiler 072-000005-00 (Copy)
DGFHS 1072 NOVA FORTRAN 4 DOS Compiler Rev 5.30 072-000005-03
DGFHS 1073 NOVA NOVA FORTRAN CSP 072-000044-00 (Commercial Subroutine Pkg
DGFHS 1074 NOVA FORTRAN IV Runtime Library 072-000025-00
DGFHS 1075 NOVA NOVA FORTRAN IV Runtime 072-000025-02
DGFHS 1076 NOVA NOVA FORTRAN IV Runtime 072-000025-02
DGFHS 1077 NOVA NOVA FORTRAN IV Compiler 072-000027-02
DGFHS 1078 NOVA NOVA FORTRAN IV Compiler 072-000027-02
DGFHS 1079 NOVA Update 2 NOVA FORTRAN IV 072-000348-00A
DGFHS 1079A NOVA Update 2 NOVA FORTRAN IV 072-000348-00A
DGFHS 1080 NOVA FORTRAN 4 Runtime Rev. 5.30 072-000025-03
DGFHS 1081 NOVA Update 1 for DOS FORTRAN 4 Rev 5.30 072-000473-00
DGFHS 1082 NOVA Update 1 for DOS FORTRAN 4 Rev. 5.30 072-000473-00
DGFHS 1083 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN IV Compiler Rev. 5.50 072-000027-05
DGFHS 1084 NOVA Update 4, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 1 072-000291-03
DGFHS 1085 NOVA Update 4, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 2 072-000309-00
DGFHS 1086 NOVA Update 5, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 1 072-000291-03
DGFHS 1087 NOVA Update 5, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 2 072-000309-00
DGFHS 1088 NOVA Update 6, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 1 072-000291-03
DGFHS 1089 NOVA Update 6, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 2 072-000309-00
DGFHS 1090 NOVA Update 7, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 1 072-000291-03
DGFHS 1091 NOVA Update 7, N/Eclipse FORTRAN IV 5.50 DK 2 072-000309-00
DGFHS 1092 NOVA NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev. 6.10 DK 1 072-000052-04
DGFHS 1093 NOVA NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev. 6.10 DK 2 072-000055-04
DGFHS 1094 NOVA NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev. 6.10 DK 3 072-000511-01
DGFHS 1095 NOVA Upd. 1 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 1 072-000283-03
DGFHS 1096 NOVA Upd. 1 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 2 072-000712-00
DGFHS 1097 NOVA Upd. 2 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 1 072-000283-03
DGFHS 1098 NOVA Upd. 2 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 2 072-000712-00
DGFHS 1099 NOVA Upd. 3 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 1 072-000283-03
DGFHS 1100 NOVA Upd. 3 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 2 072-000712-00
DGFHS 1101 NOVA Upd. 4 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 1 072-000283-03
DGFHS 1102 NOVA Upd. 4 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 2 072-000712-00
DGFHS 1103 NOVA Upd. 5 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 1 072-000283-03
DGFHS 1104 NOVA Upd. 5 NOVA RDOS FORTRAN 5 Rev 6.10 DK 2 072-000712-00
DGFHS 1105 NOVA ALGOL Runtime Libraries 072-000047-00
DGFHS 1106 NOVA RDOS ALGOL Compiler Rev. 2.10 072-000046-01
DGFHS 1107 NOVA RDOS ALGOL Compiler Rev. 2.10 072-000046-01
DGFHS 1108 NOVA NOVA ALGOL Runtime Rev 2.10 072-000047-02
DGFHS 1109 NOVA NOVA ALGOL Runtime Rev 2.10 072-000047-02
DGFHS 1110 NOVA Update 1 ALGOL Rev. 2.10 072-000288-00
DGFHS 1111 NOVA Update 1 ALGOL Rev. 2.10 072-000288-00
DGFHS 1112 NOVA Update 1 ALGOL Rev. 2.10 072-000288-00
DGFHS 1113 NOVA Update 1 ALGOL Rev. 2.10 072-000288-00
DGFHS 1114 NOVA SOS Single User Extended BASIC 072-000067-00
DGFHS 1115 NOVA DOS BASIC 072-000092-01
DGFHS 1116 NOVA NOVA Extended BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK 1 072-000030-06
DGFHS 1117 NOVA NOVA RDOS Extended BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK 1 072-000030-06
DGFHS 1118 NOVA N/E RDOS Extended BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK 2 072-000355-02
DGFHS 1119 NOVA NOVA Extended BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK 1 072-000030-06
DGFHS 1120 NOVA NOVA/Eclipse M/U Ext. BASIC Rev 5.40 DK2 072-000355-02
DGFHS 1121 NOVA Update 1 for RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev. 5.40 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1122 NOVA Update 2 RDOS Extended BASIC Rev. 5.40 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1123 NOVA Update 3 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev 5.40 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1124 NOVA Update 3 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev 5.40 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1125 NOVA Upd. 4 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK1 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1126 NOVA Upd. 4 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK2 072-000703-00
DGFHS 1127 NOVA Upd. 4 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK1 072-000279-04
DGFHS 1128 NOVA Upd. 4 N/E RDOS Ext. BASIC Rev. 5.40 DK2 072-000703-00
DGFHS 1129 NOVA DG Plotter Software (From Tape)
DGFHS 1130 NOVA DG Plotter Software (From Tape)
DGFHS 1131 NOVA DG Diagnostics / Plot Subroutines
DGFHS 1132 NOVA PLOT.DM Backup 12/14/76
DGFHS 1133 NOVA Floppy/Copy NOVA V1.1 FC-N-1384
DGFHS 1134 NOVA Copy Floppy Copy FC-N-1384
DGFHS 1135 NOVA DTOS Diagnostics
DGFHS 1136 NOVA DTOS Model N1 on Diskette 075-000004-00
DGFHS 1137 NOVA DTOS Model N2 on Diskette 075-000005-00 (BAD)
DGFHS 1138 NOVA DTOS Model P1 on Diskette 075-000006-03
DGFHS 1139 NOVA DTOS Model P2 on Diskette 075-000007-03
DGFHS 1140 NOVA DTOS Model P3 on Diskette 075-000008-03
14 Oct
14 Oct
12:59 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Jay West
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:08 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: DG S/130 progress
Pictures of the S/130 system I'm building up are at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02
[... snip long cool progress description ...]
Great series of pictures Jay!
I planned to work last Saturday on the "dead" PDP-11/10, but got distracted
to the NOVA 3 that I have. Probably because I am going to pick up a NOVA 4
(if the description of the guy is correct).
After more than a year on a desk, I mounted the 6125 tape drive in the top
of the rack with its power supply on the right side next to it.
The rest of the system is very much like your system: 6125 tape drive,
6031 single 8" floppy drive, NOVA 3, and in the bottom a 6070 hard disk
unit.
It would seem that DG didn't believe in anything
plugging in to
interface boards. Instead, interface boards went in the cpu with no
external connectors. Then you wirewrap from the backplane from a given
slot to one (of a stack) of paddle boards bolted to the rear of the
cpu chassis. Those paddleboards have edge connectors, and that's where
you connect the device cable. Fun stuff.
Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything.
I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable
from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do
have the cable
from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally
mounted
one).
My 6125 did power up correctly, but when I mount a tape and press BOT,
it spools some tape and then stops. When I press BOT again, it spools
again some tape. Did that a few times ... had to manually rewind the tape
as REWIND did not work. Could be a missing BOT on the tape, or issues ...
So... some progress at least :)
Keep posting! I am a "newbie" on DG stuff with a long road ahead.
I am not sure whether the NOVA 3 is healthy either. Several bulbs of
the console are probably burnt out. I am thinking about a replacement
with LEDs as bulbs will continue to die.
I have off-line some pages of DG on my website. As this will get
more interest (from myself), I will upload them in a moment. At the
bottom of the navigation section (left) will be an entry "Data General".
Any comment and information is welcome!
- Henk
2:16 p.m.
On 10/14/2015 11:59 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote:
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Jay West Sent:
Wednesday, October
On both my Eclipse S/140 and Nova 4 the peripheral cables that go from
the backplane to the paddle boards use one or two connectors that slip
over the backplane pins instead of wire-wrapping onto the pins.
JRJ
It would seem that DG didn't believe in
anything plugging in to
interface boards. Instead, interface boards went in the cpu with no
external connectors. Then you wirewrap from the backplane from a given
slot to one (of a stack) of paddle boards bolted to the rear of the
cpu chassis. Those paddleboards have edge connectors, and that's where
you connect the device cable. Fun stuff.
Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything.
I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable
from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable
from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally
mounted one).
6:07 p.m.
Henk wrote...
Great series of pictures Jay!
Thanks! Most of
those pics are "so I don't forget where wires go", but some
of them are presentable :)
After more than a year on a desk, I mounted the 6125
tape drive in the top
of the rack with its power supply on the right side next to
it.
I went to mount my 6125 today, but alas I may have to get creative. My 6125
was in a "desktop" stand, and when I remove the power supply and also look
at the DG Installation docs - it appears that they used a different sheet
metal backing to mount the 6125 in a rack (on the side, as you say) rather
than on the desktop unit. I was sooo hoping to just remove and mount. Well,
either they used different metal or my vertical posts are spaced different
than expected. I don't think it's the latter, because all the measurements
matched with the installation guide for the cpu and the 6030 disk unit.
Hummmm.. looking at pictures... it's the former. The sheet metal the PS is
mounted on is definitely shorter (left to right) on mine than what is
pictured. I guess I now have a use for the metal brake that I just bought
yesterday that is still in my car ;)
Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with
connectors for everything.
Anything I would say to that would probably start a
flame-war between DEC
and DG enthusiasts, so I'll just leave that one alone ;)
I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not
have the cable from
the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable
from the
paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally mounted
one).
As Bruce pointed out to me, there are actually only a few different
backplane wirings. Since it hasn't been rackmounted yet, I haven't gone
searching all the DG racks to see if I have any of the internal or external
or device cables for the 6125. We'll see. I suspect I will have to make all
my own cables; all my DG gear came from two collectors in separate
acquisitions - with one exception. This 6125 I bought off a shelf at the
local electronics haunt years ago, and it had no cables.
My 6125 did power up correctly, but when I mount a tape
and press BOT, it
spools some tape and then stops. When I press BOT again, it spools
again
some tape. Did that a few times ... had to manually rewind the tape as
REWIND did not work. Could be a missing BOT on the tape, or issues ...
If there's no BOT tape on the tape, yeah. If there is, I'd look first at
testing the BOT/EOT sensor. I think there's a procedure for that in the
manual. ISTR that when it hits the BOT tape, it actually backs up a little
so it can get a "running jump".
Keep posting! I am a "newbie" on DG stuff
with a long road ahead.
Ditto here, new to DG gear as well. Bruce has been a great
help, but pouring
over docs for hours has been invaluable.
Best,
J
6:25 p.m.
Jay, have you tried floppydisk.com? Their site only shows 3.5 and 5.25"
floppies, but they do have 8" too (although not cheap).
Not sure if they'll have the hard-sectored ones but they have SSSD
soft-sectored (for my RX01) at $90 for a pack of ten. Going rate on ebay is
$25-35 a pack...
15 Oct
15 Oct
12:54 p.m.
Henk wrote...
Ahh yeah, but that was not my intention. They are different companies,
so they have different ways of doing things, although quite similar.
The one does not have to be better than the other, but my (first)
impression is that DEC stuff is a little easier. But then, I am a
"newbie" in DG land.
As far as I know, there is one pin header on the horizontal circuit
board for connection to the controller and one cable on the vertical
board that goes to the PSU. The other side of the PSU (rear in the rack)
has the mains power cable (cannot be detached).
Yes Bruce is a most-helpful guy ++. I hope to be able to return a favor.
I am told that the disk in the NOVA 3 has a COBOL environment (compiler),
and the NOVA 4/C that I picked up today has a manual of BUSINESS BASIC.
The application on the NOVA 4 is an accounting system written in BASIC.
The complete listing is also in the doc, so expect the interpreter to
find as well on the disk.
I still have to do an inventory of what the system contains, but from
memory I saw it is a NOVA 4/C (or was it "S"?). In the bottom is a
fixed disk drive. It does not have a top for a removable cartridge,
it is a hard disk only. Capacity 12.5 MB according to the doc. On top
of the hard disk drive is mounted one 8" floppy drive. It IS bolted
onto the top of the hard disk. The interface cable of the hard disk
and the cable from the floppy disk both go together to one single
typical DG edge connector. The doc says that the floppy drive is 1.2 MB.
Below the slit for the floppy is a large small rectangular push button
with an LED in it. I have seen similar floppy drives, but never on DG.
But it is "original" DG, because I have the mating blue front cover with
openings for this floppy drive. The hard disk drive/floppy drive combo
can be lifted by one person, but I would not walk a 100 meter with it.
It is heavy, I estimate between 40 and 50 kilo. Not good for your back,
but when you're on your own (unloading the van) ...
Would love to see that "backing up" :-) Open reel tape drives still
have the great looks. No wonder you see them in the back spinning in
old SciFi movies (remember Time Tunnel?)
How true! I have nobody in vicinity to talk to about DG stuff. Just like
you, I read docs to know how to mount and connect the 6125.
I'm now reading bits about the NOVA 3 itself, and hope to do some tests
on Saturday. A first check gave me the impression that several bulbs on
the console are burnt out. I hope the system is fine, but not sure
about that :-/
greetz,
- Henk
Great series of pictures Jay!
>Thanks! Most of those pics are "so I don't
forget where wires go", but
>some of them are presentable :)
I am used to make notes and draw sketchy pictures to remember how cables
were connected. But then, I try to re-install all cabling within a week.
My memory is not yet completely faded in a week, and the drawings do
the rest :-) When I started collecting back in 1996 or so, I did not
have a camera, so drawing was the only option. I still have drawings of
the PSU and cable harness for the 11/35 from back then.
>After more than a year on a desk, I mounted the
6125 tape drive in the
>top of the rack with its power supply on the right side next to it.
I went to mount my 6125 today, but alas I may have to
get creative.
My 6125 was in a "desktop" stand, and when I remove the power supply
and also look at the DG Installation docs - it appears that they used
a different sheet metal backing to mount the 6125 in a rack (on the side,
as you say) rather than on the desktop unit. I was sooo hoping to just
remove and mount. Well, either they used different metal or my vertical
posts are spaced different than expected. I don't think it's the latter,
because all the measurements matched with the installation guide for the
cpu and the 6030 disk unit.
Hummmm.. looking at pictures... it's the former. The sheet metal the PS
is mounted on is definitely shorter (left to right) on mine than what is
pictured. I guess I now have a use for the metal brake that I just bought
yesterday that is still in my car ;)
LOL. I also drive for weeks with stuff in the back of the car.
Not because I forgot it ... just waiting for a tactical moment to get it
from the car into the house ;-)
I can only tell
about the 6125 that I have. Perhaps there are other methods,
but the drawings and doc that I have (from Bruce, tnx!) match my config.
On the right vertical post of the rack you mount two hinges. Each hinge has
a pin that simply goes through a hole of the vertical post, and one screw.
The screw (Allen type) is at the front side, you have to remove the pin of
the hinge (screw). After you mount the two hinges on the right side vertical
post, you can mount the 6125 tape drive. Yup, the entire tape drive hangs on
those two hinges. The form the pivot to swing the tape drive in and out of
the rack. That's why the horizontal circuit board has that rounded shape!
On the tape deck, at the left side is a hole for a screw to lock the tape
drive in the rack. The screw simply fits a hole in the left side vertical
post.
The power supply is mounted at the right side (seen from the front) in the
rack, using a metal plate from front to rear vertical post. The drawings
indeed show two versions. The difference is the length of the metal plate.
The distance between components on the horizontal circuit board of the
tape drive and the bottom of the PSU cage is just ~0.5".
Long story. If you like, I can take a set of pictures on Saturday.
Indeed! I feel
like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything.
Anything I would say to
that would probably start a flame-war between
DEC and DG enthusiasts, so I'll just leave that one alone ;) I have the
controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable
from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable
from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the
horizontally mounted one).
As Bruce pointed out to me, there are actually only a few
different
backplane wirings. Since it hasn't been rackmounted yet, I haven't gone
searching all the DG racks to see if I have any of the internal or
external or device cables for the 6125. We'll see. I suspect I will
have to make all my own cables; all my DG gear came from two collectors
in separate acquisitions - with one exception. This 6125 I bought off a
shelf at the local electronics haunt years ago, and it had no cables. My 6125 did
power up correctly, but when I mount a tape and press BOT,
it spools some tape and then stops. When I press BOT again, it spools
again some tape. Did that a few times ... had to manually rewind the
tape as REWIND did not work. Could be a missing BOT on the tape, or
issues ...
If there's no BOT tape on the tape, yeah. If there is, I'd look
first at
testing the BOT/EOT sensor. I think there's a procedure for that in the
manual. ISTR that when it hits the BOT tape, it actually backs up a
little so it can get a "running jump". Keep posting!
I am a "newbie" on DG stuff with a long road ahead.
Ditto here, new to DG
gear as well. Bruce has been a great help, but
pouring over docs for hours has been invaluable.
1:38 p.m.
Henk wrote...
------
On the right vertical post of the rack you mount two hinges. Each hinge has
a pin that simply goes through a hole of the vertical post, and one screw.
------
Yep, I got the installation instructions in the manual, which are
wonderfully detailed WRT rackmounting. You may not have noticed this
though.... If you are mounting the 6125 anywhere except the very top of the
rack - no problem. However, if you are mounting it right at the very top you
will want to know something that the manual isn't clear on. Those pins you
mention above - they look like they are threaded and you just screw them
into the hinge from the top. But if you look very closely, you'll see that
the pins can be screwed into the hinges *from the bottom* until they stick
out of the top the right way. You won't get it mounted in the very top of a
rack unless you do it that way (depending on your rack of course).
------
As far as I know, there is one pin header on the horizontal circuit board
for connection to the controller and one cable on the vertical board that
goes to the PSU. The other side of the PSU (rear in the rack) has the mains
power cable (cannot be detached).
------
Yep, they are different then. The desktop power supply itself is identical
but the metalwork is not. In addition, the power cord is removable on the
desktop version. I will have to make "non-standard adjustments" for that :|
------
It is heavy, I estimate between 40 and 50 kilo. Not good for your back, but
when you're on your own (unloading the van) ...
------
Tell me about it. After I mounted the 6125 I noticed the blue cover door
wouldn't open all the way due to clearance on the left front of the rack.
Further scrutiny revealed that $previous_owner mounted the two front
vertical rails with a slant. The front vertical rails are flush with the
front of the rack at the bottom, but at the top they are back about 1/2
inch. So today I am unracking everything in the rack, adjusting the two
front vertical rails, and then re-racking everything. What a major pain. My
fault though - I should have noticed this before I got all the way to the
top in putting stuff in the rack.
J
2:01 p.m.
Jay wrote...
------
Yup, I mounted the 6125 in the top of the rack. The thought indeed did not
occur that you can screw the pin in the metal hinge from the *bottom* side.
I removed the top plastic part with the Data General text (top cover) to
get the clearance space needed to hang the drive on the pins. If you have
a helping hand you can leave the top cover installed. Make sure that the
other guy is holding the drive while *you* screw the pins in :-)
Either way, you have to hang the tape drive on th pins while it is at 90
degrees with the front of the rack (fully "opened" position).
Ughh, that's no fun! If my rack was like that, I would not have noticed
that either. You simply don't expect that, especially because this is
not possible with DEC (or HP) racks. They are either riveted or welded.
Enjoy the disassembly/assembly, a great moment for many pictures :-)
- Henk
Henk wrote...
------
On the right vertical post of the rack you mount two hinges. Each hinge
has
a pin that simply goes through a hole of the vertical post, and one screw.
------
Yep, I got the installation instructions in the manual, which are
wonderfully detailed WRT rackmounting. You may not have noticed this
though.... If you are mounting the 6125 anywhere except the very top of the
rack - no problem. However, if you are mounting it right at the very top
you
will want to know something that the manual isn't clear on. Those pins you
mention above - they look like they are threaded and you just screw them
into the hinge from the top. But if you look very closely, you'll see that
the pins can be screwed into the hinges *from the bottom* until they stick
out of the top the right way. You won't get it mounted in the very top of a
rack unless you do it that way (depending on your rack of course). ------
It is heavy, I estimate between 40 and 50 kilo. Not good for your back,
but when you're on your own (unloading the van) ...
------
Tell me about it. After I mounted the 6125 I noticed the blue cover door
wouldn't open all the way due to clearance on the left front of the rack.
Further scrutiny revealed that $previous_owner mounted the two front
vertical rails with a slant. The front vertical rails are flush with the
front of the rack at the bottom, but at the top they are back about 1/2
inch. So today I am unracking everything in the rack, adjusting the two
front vertical rails, and then re-racking everything. What a major pain.
My fault though - I should have noticed this before I got all the way to
the top in putting stuff in the rack.
2:30 p.m.
Henk wrote...
-----
Yup, I mounted the 6125 in the top of the rack. The thought indeed did not
occur that you can screw the pin in the metal hinge from the *bottom* side.
I removed the top plastic part with the Data General text (top cover) to get
the clearance space needed to hang the drive on the pins. If you have a
helping hand you can leave the top cover installed. Make sure that the other
guy is holding the drive while *you* screw the pins in :-) Either way, you
have to hang the tape drive on th pins while it is at 90 degrees with the
front of the rack (fully "opened" position).
-----
As I said, it depends on the rack. I have two styles of DG rack. On one of
them, you can mount the tape unit in the very top position by putting the
top hinge pin in from the top. But on the other style of rack, it is not
possible at all unless you put the pin into the hinge from the bottom. The
two racks have slightly different metalwork at the top. I really wanted my
6125 at the very top and found it couldn't be done - then I happened to
notice that in the bottom of the pins there is a hex indentation for an
allen wrench so you CAN screw them in from the bottom :)
-----
Ughh, that's no fun! If my rack was like that, I would not have noticed
that either. You simply don't expect that, especially because this is not
possible with DEC (or HP) racks. They are either riveted or welded.
-----
It was a silly mistake, I know better, and just didn't pay attention. I was
in too much of a rush to get a rack that was top to bottom that gorgeous
blue color ;) I now have the two front vertical posts flush with the front
all the way up the rack. Now I have to re-adjust all the upper rails/slides
to match, and then the re-racking begins. None of it is THAT much trouble
really, except the 6125 is kind of a bit** to mount ;) Maybe it's just cause
I'm so short lol
-----
Enjoy the disassembly/assembly, a great moment for many pictures :-)
-----
Yeah, it would be... but I'm in a rush to get a rack that is top to bottom
that gorgeous blue color.... *grin*
J
5 Nov
5 Nov
5:13 p.m.
Hello,
I'm curious to know if you managed to find some hard sectored floppies
to be used with your DG machine...
When you wanna have some fun to try, I could send you the current
version of the tool to transfer data between DG nova and PC.
Unfortunately I have no bootable media yet, but maybe an image could be
obtained using SIMH, then transferred to physical floppy to try.
Andrea
8:06 p.m.
Yep, I purchased a couple boxes of 8" HS floppies, I think you were going to contact
me off-list. In any case... send me the current version and I'll give it a whirl.
J
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of shadoooo
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 4:14 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DG S/130 progress
Hello,
I'm curious to know if you managed to find some hard sectored floppies to be used with
your DG machine...
When you wanna have some fun to try, I could send you the current version of the tool to
transfer data between DG nova and PC.
Unfortunately I have no bootable media yet, but maybe an image could be obtained using
SIMH, then transferred to physical floppy to try.
Andrea
3181
days inactive
3205
days old
12 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net -
cube1＠charter.net -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
shadoooo＠gmail.com