26 Apr
2016
26 Apr
'16
8:21 a.m.
Has anyone ever seen either A/UX or AIX running on an Apple Network Server
or Apple Workgroup Server? I had several hundred AIX machines running in a
server farm for a while, but even the oldest was POWER4 based, and I've only
done a bit of legacy support for PPC60x-based RS/6000 systems. I don't
belive I've ever seen an ANS or AWS IRL.
I'm curious what the last version of AIX that will run on them. I'm
guessing 4.x. I'm also curious if there is one machine that can run A/UX,
AIX, MacOS, and NetBSD.
Here's a fun fact to know and tell. In addition to an SGI Irix screen
running the "fsn" tool in the movie Jurassic Park, there were several
screenshots of a workstation in that same room/scene running A/UX.
-Swift
26 Apr
26 Apr
12:51 p.m.
On 04/26/16 10:21 AM, Swift Griggs wrote:
Has anyone ever seen either A/UX or AIX running on an Apple Network Server
or Apple Workgroup Server?
A/UX did not run on PPC hardware. The AIX that ran on ANS boxes (Apple Network
Servers) was a special deviant, and, among other issues, required Apple ROMs to
boot. ANS boxes were physically much closer to Apple hardware of the time vs
IBM hardware. I consider this to be a good article on the ANS box:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Network_Server
I don't have any additional helpful hints as to getting this special version of
AIX up and running, aside from hunting down and purchasing an ANS box.
If you figure out something new in regards to the ANS, or its specialized
version of AIX, please share.
However,
A/UX - another Apple Unix that (originally) only ran on specific hardware.
There is now an emulation project called "ShoeBill" that will allow you to run
A/UX on top of other hardware.
Hit up duckduckgo.com to search for specific details/FAQ's/etc.
download (Shoebill) code from here::
https://github.com/pruten/Shoebill/
And,
AIX - disclaimer - nothing modern going on here either.
AIX 1.x, among other CPU's, also ran on x86 hardware. I am close to having AIX
1.x running in Bochs::
http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
On top of Oracle Solaris on x86/x64.
enjoy,
Jerry
I had several hundred AIX machines running in a
server farm for a while, but even the oldest was POWER4 based, and I've only
done a bit of legacy support for PPC60x-based RS/6000 systems. I don't
belive I've ever seen an ANS or AWS IRL.
I'm curious what the last version of AIX that will run on them. I'm
guessing 4.x. I'm also curious if there is one machine that can run A/UX,
AIX, MacOS, and NetBSD.
Here's a fun fact to know and tell. In addition to an SGI Irix screen
running the "fsn" tool in the movie Jurassic Park, there were several
screenshots of a workstation in that same room/scene running A/UX.
-Swift
1:25 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:
I'm curious if there were the ROMs on a discrete board or embedded on the
mobo? I didn't realize it was only for M68k systems. I guess there won't
be any system that could run A/UX with AIX, then, since AIX from that era
will want a PPC CPU.
Has anyone
ever seen either A/UX or AIX running on an Apple Network Server
or Apple Workgroup Server?
A/UX did not run on PPC hardware. The AIX that ran on
ANS boxes (Apple
Network Servers) was a special deviant, and, among other issues, required
Apple ROMs to boot. I don't have any additional helpful hints as to
getting this special
version of AIX up and running, aside from hunting down and purchasing an
ANS box.
I'd probably only do that if I could get one with the media. A/UX sounds a
little more interesting to me anyhow at the moment. I've had years of AIX
experience, nowadays. I've never touched A/UX.
If you figure out something new in regards to the ANS,
or its specialized
version of AIX, please share.
Will do.
A/UX - another Apple Unix that (originally) only ran
on specific hardware.
There is now an emulation project called "ShoeBill" that will allow you to
run A/UX on top of other hardware.
I've seen that project before. The only issue is that you need a legal ROM
image and I don't have one. If I had a machine to dump the ROM from, I'd
probably just use that, instead. The project is still really neat, though.
The other issue is that the guy who wrote it got hired by a company who is
probably having him write emulation code (Stromsys ?) and so he can't
continue the project. I've seen this happen before with people writing
Alpha emulators, too. It's a shame for hobbyists, but understandable. The
guy has to eat.
AIX - disclaimer - nothing modern going on here
either.
Hehe, careful, you don't want all the AIX fans coming out of the woodwork
on the attack. AIX is one that I had heard some negativity about when I
first started learning it (I regularly learn new Unix variants just for
fun). Someone called it "Ain't Unix" (and for heaven's sake it
wasn't me).
Now, I can see it's strengths and weaknesses. I won't enumerate any since
folks will go ballistic, I'm sure. I'll just say this, it's got some
decent attributes that might surprise people who hate it. It still not my
favorite, but it grew on me.
AIX 1.x, among other CPU's, also ran on x86
hardware. I am close to
having AIX 1.x running in Bochs::
Yes, I remember reading about AIX running on some special class of PS/2
machines. I've seen photos of AIX floppy disks for that platform. However,
I wonder if it goes out to check your BIOS or some microchannel jiggery
pokery to see if you have an "entitlement" to run it. If you find a way to
make it work and a source for the software, please let me know, too. Thanks!
-Swift
1:46 p.m.
On 04/26/16 03:25 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
All of this stuff, OS, ROM's, other misc code, is widely and easily available
out there on the Interwebs. I won't say any more or provide any specifics, as I
like being on this list and don't want to get booted for sharing locations for
unlicensed software.
Ultimately, it boils down to what your morals are, when using an abandoned
product from a couple of decades ago for hobbyist and/or learning usage only.
I'm certain that anyone here who decided to write a new software product to run
their business on, that ran on top of A/UX would immediately be sending some
money Apple's way.
Sorry for any misunderstanding here, you are reading something into this here
that was never intended.
What I mean here, unlike the other products discussed in this thread, that were
dropped/discontinued after a couple of releases decades ago, AIX wasn't. I'm
not up to date on the Current version of AIX, but I'm thinking 7.x, maybe 8.x????
The stuff I am playing with is 1.x, again, from a couple of decades ago, on a
hardware platform that IBM abandoned. Nothing more is implied. Nothing to read
between the lines.
Unix is a very religious subject. My last intent is to get on someone's bad
side here.
Moving on, all of the AIX 1.x stuff is widely and easily available for easy
download at various locations.
Jerry
A/UX - another Apple Unix that (originally) only
ran on specific hardware.
There is now an emulation project called "ShoeBill" that will allow you to
run A/UX on top of other hardware.
I've seen that project before. The only issue is that you need a legal ROM
image and I don't have one. If I had a machine to dump the ROM from, I'd
probably just use that, instead. The project is still really neat, though.
AIX -
disclaimer - nothing modern going on here either.
Hehe, careful, you don't want all the AIX fans coming out of the woodwork
on the attack. AIX is one that I had heard some negativity about when I
first started learning it (I regularly learn new Unix variants just for
fun). Someone called it "Ain't Unix" (and for heaven's sake it
wasn't me).
Now, I can see it's strengths and weaknesses. I won't enumerate any since
folks will go ballistic, I'm sure. I'll just say this, it's got some
decent attributes that might surprise people who hate it. It still not my
favorite, but it grew on me.
AIX 1.x, among other CPU's, also ran on x86
hardware. I am close to
having AIX 1.x running in Bochs::
Yes, I remember reading about AIX running on some special class of PS/2
machines. I've seen photos of AIX floppy disks for that platform. However,
I wonder if it goes out to check your BIOS or some microchannel jiggery
pokery to see if you have an "entitlement" to run it. If you find a way to
make it work and a source for the software, please let me know, too. Thanks!
-Swift
2:05 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:
Sorry for any misunderstanding here, you are reading
something into this here
that was never intended.
Sorry for misinterpreting what you were saying. I understand what you
meant, now.
I won't say any more or provide any specifics, as
I like being on this
list and don't want to get booted for sharing locations for unlicensed
software.
Understood. I like to keep it legal, since I mainly work as a systems
programmer or sysadmin.
Ultimately, it boils down to what your morals are,
when using an
abandoned product from a couple of decades ago for hobbyist and/or
learning usage only.
Well, I teach some AIX classes on occasion and I've got to be very
careful. YMMV and TEHO.
When it comes to A/UX, I'm a little more sanguine since it's completely
defunct at this point. I do want to learn about it sometime since it's
supposed to have a MacOS compat layer which sounds interesting.
AIX - disclaimer - nothing modern going on here
either.
Hehe, careful, you don't want all the AIX fans coming out of the
woodwork
on the attack. [...] I'm not up to date on the Current version of AIX,
but I'm thinking 7.x,
maybe 8.x????
7.2 TL0 is the latest. There is support for Power8 in 7.x.
The stuff I am playing with is 1.x, again, from a
couple of decades ago,
on a hardware platform that IBM abandoned. Nothing more is implied.
Nothing to read between the lines.
Gotcha, again, sorry for the misread.
Unix is a very religious subject. My last intent is
to get on someone's
bad side here.
Tell me about it. I'm just lucky/glad to have avoided the VMS vs Unix wars
in the 90's. Too much drama. :-)
-Swift
2:38 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Swift Griggs once stated:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:
What VMS vs Unix wars? I don't recall any in the 90s. Perhaps in the 80s
...
-spc (Who used VMS briefly in college ... )
Unix is a very religious subject. My last intent
is to get on someone's
bad side here.
Tell me about it. I'm just lucky/glad to have avoided the VMS vs Unix wars
in the 90's. Too much drama. :-)
2:46 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Sean Conner wrote:
Perhaps so; like I said, I missed them, and thank goodness.
Talk about a polarizing argument. I've met a metric ton of brilliant Unix
*and* VMS folks, and some that knew both. :-)
-Swift
Tell me about
it. I'm just lucky/glad to have avoided the VMS vs Unix wars
in the 90's. Too much drama. :-)
What VMS vs Unix wars? I don't recall
any in the 90s. Perhaps in the 80s
... 
11:44 p.m.
On Apr 26, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Swift Griggs
<swiftgriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Sean Conner wrote:
Perhaps so; like I said, I missed them, and thank goodness.
Talk about a polarizing argument. I've met a metric ton of brilliant Unix
*and* VMS folks, and some that knew both. :-)
-Swift
Don?t fret, once OpenVMS v9.0 is released, on x86-64, there won?t be any doubt as to who
won. :-)
Oh, and while I?m at it, both vi and emacs suck. Give me TPU! :-)
In answer to the original question, Cameron Kaiser used to be heavily into Mac Workgroup
Servers running AIX, but I don?t think he?s on the list any more.
In the long distant past, I used A/UX on Mac IIfx systems. I used AIX on a variety of IBM
systems, more recently, but never on an Apple system.
Zane
Tell me
about it. I'm just lucky/glad to have avoided the VMS vs Unix wars
in the 90's. Too much drama. :-)
What VMS vs Unix wars? I don't recall
any in the 90s. Perhaps in the 80s
...
27 Apr
27 Apr
8:02 a.m.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Zane Healy wrote:
Don?t fret, once OpenVMS v9.0 is released, on x86-64,
there won?t be any
doubt as to who won. :-)
:-) Well, in the spirit of further non-participation let me (a die hard
unix zealot) say that I can't wait to see VMS ported to x86-64. I think
VMS is cool. I've been learning about it lately. It has some great
features.
Oh, and while I?m at it, both vi and emacs suck. Give
me TPU! :-)
Heh, I'm one of the few Unix guys that might be inclined to agree. I can
use both. However, I got used to Wordstar, then the IDE in Borland
products (which is similar to Wordstar). So, my favorite editor is "joe"
not Vi or Emacs, but TEHO. For me, using an editor is about familiarity,
even if something takes more keystrokes etc... I find it odd that people
actually argue about editors, but that's just a difference in value
system.
In answer to the original question, Cameron Kaiser
used to be heavily
into Mac Workgroup Servers running AIX, but I don?t think he?s on the
list any more.
Ah, well lots of knowledgeable folks have responded.
In the long distant past, I used A/UX on Mac IIfx
systems. I used AIX
on a variety of IBM systems, more recently, but never on an Apple
system.
I'm quite comfy with AIX at this point, so I'm more interested in toying
with A/UX. I had a IIci for a while. I should have tried to set that up.
It's listed as compatible. I just wasn't aware of A/UX at that time. I
actually learned about it after tracking down "what is that crazy looking
mac-like Unix variant in Jurassic Park." It sounds like you don't need any
special ROMs installed on the system, just a compatible M68k mac with an
MMU.
-Swift
8:56 a.m.
On Apr 27, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Swift Griggs
<swiftgriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Zane Healy wrote:
I?ve used both for a long time, but UNIX a bit longer.
Don?t fret, once OpenVMS v9.0 is released, on
x86-64, there won?t be any
doubt as to who won. :-)
:-) Well, in the spirit of further non-participation let me (a die hard
unix zealot) say that I can't wait to see VMS ported to x86-64. I think
VMS is cool. I've been learning about it lately. It has some great
features. Oh, and while I?m at it, both vi and emacs suck. Give
me TPU! :-)
Heh, I'm one of the few Unix guys that might be inclined to agree. I can
use both. However, I got used to Wordstar, then the IDE in Borland
products (which is similar to Wordstar). So, my favorite editor is "joe"
not Vi or Emacs, but TEHO. For me, using an editor is about familiarity,
even if something takes more keystrokes etc... I find it odd that people
actually argue about editors, but that's just a difference in value
system.
Okay, I?m impressed! Someone that not only knows about my favorite UNIX text editor, but
uses it! The first tool I install on any UNIX system, if it doesn?t have it, is ?joe?.
:-)
Zane
10:05 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great Swift Griggs once stated:
They argue because each wants to spead "The Good News".
And for the record, I too use joe, but only because I can't use PE any
more.
-spc (See "The Life of Brian" to see where this leads ... )
Oh, and while
I?m at it, both vi and emacs suck. Give me TPU! :-)
Heh, I'm one of the few Unix guys that might be inclined to agree. I can
use both. However, I got used to Wordstar, then the IDE in Borland
products (which is similar to Wordstar). So, my favorite editor is "joe"
not Vi or Emacs, but TEHO. For me, using an editor is about familiarity,
even if something takes more keystrokes etc... I find it odd that people
actually argue about editors, but that's just a difference in value
system. 
26 Apr
26 Apr
8:21 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Swift Griggs wrote:
Has anyone ever seen either A/UX or AIX running on an Apple Network Server
or Apple Workgroup Server? I had several hundred AIX machines running in a
server farm for a while, but even the oldest was POWER4 based, and I've only
done a bit of legacy support for PPC60x-based RS/6000 systems. I don't
belive I've ever seen an ANS or AWS IRL.
I have an AWGS 95. Basically a Quadra 950 with a special PDS card and DDS
drive. It runs A/UX 3.0.1 ... I also ran A/UX 3.0.1 on my IIfx for a while
but I got tired of it and reloaded the machine with System 7.
Out of all the machines Apple made, only the IIfx and the AWGS 95 were in
any way engineered with A/UX in mind ... IIRC, the I/O coprocessors in the
IIfx only run in A/UX, and the PDS card in the WGS 95 is only supported in
A/UX.
A/UX is an interesting system. Compatibility with System 7 apps is pretty
good, though not perfect. The UNIX environment is pretty stunted but that
could have been fixed with further development. They did manage to combine
the System 7 GUI with a basic UNIX command line. One favorite alternative
reality of mine is to imagine Apple continuing to develop A/UX, improving
the UNIX environment and applications compatibility, using the Copland UI
instead of buying NeXT and turning NeXTstep into Mac OS X. But BeOS was
better than either of them ;)
I'm curious what the last version of AIX that will
run on them. I'm
guessing 4.x. I'm also curious if there is one machine that can run A/UX,
AIX, MacOS, and NetBSD.
The Workgroup Servers were 68k Macs that ran A/UX (or later just PPC Macs
that ran Mac OS and AppleShare). In the case of the WGS 95, there was a
hop-up board included, but it was still just a Quadra 950 at heart that
can run Mac OS like any other Q950. The Network Servers were PPC machines
that ran AIX and only AIX... and in that regard not really Macs, IMO. A/UX
never ran on PPC. I saw a fair number of Workgroup Servers back in the good
ole days, 68k and PPC, but I've never ever seen a Network Server.
I remember the "Applefritter" site was hosted on an ANS 700 for a while
and I thought I read somewhere that it ran on AIX 4.x.
No such machine exists but it's interesting to think what may have come
had CHRP succeeded and Apple did things a little differently. I miss the
RISC wars... :O
Best,
Sean
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11 comments
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participants (5)
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healyzh＠aracnet.com -
other＠oryx.us -
scaron＠diablonet.net -
spc＠conman.org -
swiftgriggs＠gmail.com