10 Jul
2001
10 Jul
'01
12:31 a.m.
Ok, here is a stump the audience question.
I've got a board that I found that was made by SMS. Its dual width, has a
50 pin header that is terminated like a SCSI connection. A boatload of
chips one big one marked
N8X305N A
SKS8427 CT
(hand lettered #4 on it)
and it is a 50! pin DIP (extra wide like 900 mils vs 300 or 600) There are
a bunch of PALs with various serial numbers on them, 3 LEDs on the card
edge (with the 50 pin connector) and a few jumpers, one connector marked
"P4" (26 pin 2 x 13, .1" spacing)
about mid-board.
On the back it is marked:
ProG Assy: 1002049-0001
Assy No: 0004356-0001
Serial Num TS 1668
Anyway, if I plug it into my trusty VAX and do a SHO DEV it doesn't appear,
but if I do a SHO QBUS I've now got what the system thinks is a TSV05
installed. This makes me wonder if it isn't a board that one can connect to
a SCSI Cipher tape and get TSV05 emulation out of it. Anyone heard of this
thing?
--Chuck
10 Jul
10 Jul
2:41 a.m.
On 9 Jul, Chuck McManis wrote:
Anyway, if I plug it into my trusty VAX and do a SHO
DEV it doesn't appear,
but if I do a SHO QBUS I've now got what the system thinks is a TSV05
installed. This makes me wonder if it isn't a board that one can connect to
a SCSI Cipher tape and get TSV05 emulation out of it. Anyone heard of this
thing?
Get out your old ohm meter and measure the resistence of the 50 pins of
the header to GND. If it looks like SCSI I would connect an old SCSI
tape and try...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
8:32 a.m.
Jochen said:
Get out your old ohm meter and measure the resistence
of the 50 pins of
the header to GND. If it looks like SCSI I would connect an old SCSI
tape and try...
OK I'll bite. Compare & contrast SCSI and Pertec, OHM-ically.
I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in such a test.
John A.
10:02 a.m.
On 10 Jul, John Allain wrote:
I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in
such a test.
Measure the resistence of the pins to GND. Get the SCSI pinout from
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/storage/scsiinternal.html
and of course you have to hnow that a terminated SCSI pin has a
resistence of 100 to 150 Ohms to GND. Now compare your measureing to
the pinout and if you get the right resistence on the right pins you
can asume it is SCSI.
The next step is to connect some SCSI device and play around in the
hope that the magic smoke does not escape.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
10:41 a.m.
At 09:32 AM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
OK I'll bite. Compare & contrast SCSI and
Pertec, OHM-ically.
I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in such a test.
John A.
Two connectors vs one :-) Pertec has two 50 headers. I ohm'd it out and it
is SCSI, (at least all the right pins are grounded and the data pins are
terminated. So I hooked it up to an EX8200 and while it doesn't do anything
"wrong" it doesn't do anything. VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains
it is off line.
--Chuck
11:02 a.m.
--- Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> wrote:
Two connectors vs one :-) Pertec has two 50 headers. I
ohm'd it out and it
is SCSI, (at least all the right pins are grounded and the data pins are
terminated. So I hooked it up to an EX8200 and while it doesn't do anything
"wrong" it doesn't do anything. VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains
it is off line.
Perhaps it only understands SCSI commands for a particular vendor's tape
drive?
-ethan
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11:28 a.m.
New subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit
I just acquired (again) a Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit with
(manual!)designed to provide 2-axis servo control. It was originally used on
a DAC NC drilling machine when I bought it. I sold it to a friend some ten
years ago and he is starting to get the drill operational again, didn't need
the controller, and gave it to me. It includes a Remex paper tape reader and
IIRC, it uses 24 bit serial logic internally. One of the things that makes
it kind of neat is that it was built around 1971. Anyone else familar with
this unit?
1:39 p.m.
New subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit
John Allain wrote:
DAC is a company here in Santa Barbara that makes (made?) NC drills and some
other equipment. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with the GM CAD system.
DAC NC ... Anyone else familar with this
By DAC do you mean the GM CAD system? 
5:29 p.m.
New subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit
At 09:28 AM 7/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
I just acquired (again) a Tektronix 1711 Machine
Control Unit with
(manual!)designed to provide 2-axis servo control. It was originally used on
a DAC NC drilling machine when I bought it. I sold it to a friend some ten
years ago and he is starting to get the drill operational again, didn't need
the controller, and gave it to me. It includes a Remex paper tape reader and
IIRC, it uses 24 bit serial logic internally. One of the things that makes
it kind of neat is that it was built around 1971. Anyone else familar with
this unit?
I've never heard of it but it sounds interesting. I have access to a
large collection of old Tektronix catalogs and can probably find the
catalog listings for it if you need them.
Joe
3:16 p.m.
On 10 Jul, Chuck McManis wrote:
I hooked it up to an EX8200
[...]
VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains it is off
line.
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
3:49 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many
quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s
and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here.
One drive is broken, it can't pass its own power on self test. I looked to
see if there was anything obvious, when you power it on it goes "clunk-a",
pause, "clunk-a", pause, "clunk-a". For about a minute and then the
front
lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or anything? If not I'll
toss it.
The second one goes "clunk-a, clunk-a, whirr, whirr" :-) and eventually is
ready to receive a tape. When hooked to the CQD-223/T it works (slow but it
works) and when hooked to the SMS card nothing happens. I've also got a
CMS tape controller (looks a lot like the CMD one) and it works with the
drive but it won't boot from the drive.
I've got one more board to check with this drive to see if it will be
usable in one of my VAXen. (I've got two other EX8200's so this one is
definitely in the 'spare' category :-)
--Chuck
3:58 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote:
lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or
anything? If not I'll
toss it.
Yes, I would like the SCSI interface board from it to convert a
differential drive I've got (assuming the one in yours is single-ended).
ok
r.
4:07 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
I've got an 8200 rebadged as an external Maynard Maynstream
2200HS. I used to use it to backup my Amiga's but only one software
package would even deal with the drive. I've yet to find either a
Mac or PC backup program that liked the drive, but then again, most
recent packages don't support it at all. I bought it for like $30
6-7 years ago and it had a tape stuck in it. Maynard replaced it
under warranty and it's seen little use since then due to
compatibility problems.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs
many quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to
EX8200s and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. 
5:02 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention. It worked VERY reliably,
even under Win95 with Seagate Backup Executive. Unfortunately, it is limited in
capacity to 5GB per 112 meter tape with software compression. The drive is very
slow with software compression, however, as the overhead drops the rate down
below the streaming rate of common inexpensive SCSI adapters.
Under more or less ideal circumstances, I was able to make the drive stream
(under Win9x) across a 10Mb ethernet, which was adequate at the time for backups
over the ethernet. When software compression was used on a relatively slow
machine, the software compression slowed the transfers down enough that the
drive frequently had to stop, rewind, and start again, lowering the transfer
rate to well under 100KB/sec. This didn't happen with adapters that used DMA
and with machines running faster than 150 MHz. Performance was MUCH better
using DOS backup utilities.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
At 10:16 PM
7/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
I've got an 8200 rebadged as an external Maynard Maynstream
2200HS. I used to use it to backup my Amiga's but only one software
package would even deal with the drive. I've yet to find either a
Mac or PC backup program that liked the drive, but then again, most
recent packages don't support it at all. I bought it for like $30
6-7 years ago and it had a tape stuck in it. Maynard replaced it
under warranty and it's seen little use since then due to
compatibility problems.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs
many quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to
EX8200s and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here.
5:55 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention. It
worked VERY reliably,
even under Win95 with Seagate Backup Executive. Unfortunately, it
is limited in
capacity to 5GB per 112 meter tape with software compression. The
drive is very
slow with software compression, however, as the overhead drops the rate down
below the streaming rate of common inexpensive SCSI adapters.
When I got it, it's capacity of 2.5gig uncompressed was still
a pretty substantial drive, especially compared to the Colorado 120's
and 250's that were popular at the time. Not to mention that most
people were still trying to break the IDE 540meg barrier. The other
reason I bought it was because it was cheap surplus and I decided to
take a chance on being able to get it fixed. I did toy with the idea
of using it under Win95/98 for a bit but decided that since the OS
had to be reinstalled to do a restore anyway that it wasn't worth the
hassle.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11 Jul
11 Jul
7:40 a.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
I've never had to do it, but Backup Executive provides a crash-recovery option
that supports restoring the system from scratch, thereby allowing you to skip
the reinstall-the-system prologue to doing the restore. A reinstall is
indicated after doing that, however, but I've contemplated it and concluded it
might, in fact, be worth the trouble.
It's possible that current third-party offerings are better than the early stuff
I've tried out, but my experience with backup software has been pretty
discouraging. After years of using Exabyte drives with Exabyte/Novell
"Enterpirz" backup software, which worked as well as one could want, but
doesn't
handle long file names, I found the Windows-based options wanting. So far, I've
not found even one that works every time, and every time really should be read,
"twice in a row."
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
>I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention.
It worked VERY reliably,
<snip>
hassle.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
12 Jul
12 Jul
1:11 a.m.
New subject: Backup software (was: EX8200's)
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
It's possible that current third-party offerings
are better than the
early stuff I've tried out, but my experience with backup software
has been pretty
Of course, the opposite applies as well. Does anyone know why newer
UNIX dump software tends to no longer support some form of
verification of the data dumped to tapes? Some classic dump software
once supported this, such as that found with SunOS 4.1.1.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
7:30 a.m.
New subject: Backup software (was: EX8200's)
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
I've never seen the dump program offer verification passes on SunOS...
some reference points would be nice.
It may have been a SunOS enhancement.
The closest thing on FreeBSD 4.3 is restore -N which restores without
writing anything to disk for tape verification.
Bill
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
It's possible that current third-party
offerings are better than the
early stuff I've tried out, but my experience with backup software
has been pretty
Of course, the opposite applies as well. Does anyone know why newer
UNIX dump software tends to no longer support some form of
verification of the data dumped to tapes? Some classic dump software
once supported this, such as that found with SunOS 4.1.1. 
10 Jul
10 Jul
4:49 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
There were patches released to older versions of AIX and OpenVMS
specifically to deal with this tape drive. Newer versions of those OS's
should have the changes by default.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote:
At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs
many quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s
and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here.
4:55 p.m.
New subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
I've had no trouble getting the EXB-8200's to work on nearly any SCSI interface
with Win9x, NT4, DOS, Windows 3.x, various backup packages, and almost anything
else, aside from Win9x backup utilities, of which I've NEVER seen even one that
works reliably with SCSI-1 devices. Oddly enough, there's no evidence that any
of those backup programs use any SCSI-2 features.
There are diagnostic and test utilities available from EXABYTE's web site,
though I believe there's nothing that doesn't run under DOS. It might be worth
a look.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck McManis" <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:49 PM
Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID?
At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs
many quirks in the
SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or
the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware...
I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s
and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here.
One drive is broken, it can't pass its own power on self test. I looked to
see if there was anything obvious, when you power it on it goes "clunk-a",
pause, "clunk-a", pause, "clunk-a". For about a minute and then the
front
lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or anything? If not I'll
toss it.
The second one goes "clunk-a, clunk-a, whirr, whirr" :-) and eventually is
ready to receive a tape. When hooked to the CQD-223/T it works (slow but it
works) and when hooked to the SMS card nothing happens. I've also got a
CMS tape controller (looks a lot like the CMD one) and it works with the
drive but it won't boot from the drive.
I've got one more board to check with this drive to see if it will be
usable in one of my VAXen. (I've got two other EX8200's so this one is
definitely in the 'spare' category :-)
--Chuck
3:46 p.m.
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11 Jul
11 Jul
2:50 a.m.
On 10 Jul, Tony Duell wrote:
Are you sure it's SCSI? Could it be one of the QIC
standards (QIC-02 can
look a little like SCSI if you're not careful). It may be to link a QIC
tape drive to a Q-bus system.
Ahh, oh yes. QBus/TSV05 to QIC02 sounds very
reasonible. Why didn't I
had that idea? On QIC02 pins 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 are NC but on SCSI these
pins are DB{0,1,2,3,4}. Similar for pins 44, 46, 48, 50.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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days inactive
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22 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
marvin＠rain.org -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1439.monmouth.com -
rdd＠smart.net -
red＠bears.org -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
thompson＠mail.athenet.net