26 Oct
2010
26 Oct
'10
5:28 a.m.
From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
On 10/25/10 7:26 PM, leaknoil wrote:
Or 80 brushes, I think the holes in cards were made tall and narrow to make reading them
that way easier.
It looks to me like a punch card exactly fits in
there and the contacts are what read the holes in the card.
nope
cards are read with 12 brushes 
26 Oct
26 Oct
4:05 p.m.
>> It looks to me like a punch card exactly fits
in there and the
>> contacts are what read the holes in the card.
> nope
> cards are read with 12 brushes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010, Roger Holmes wrote:
Or 80 brushes, I think the holes in cards were made
tall and narrow to
make reading them that way easier.
"face down, nine edge first" (the way
Watson was buried)
or a matrix of 80 * 12
or a matrix of 40 * 12 (Wang clamshell port-a-punch reader)
My father (NOT a computer historian) used to tell me that IBM patented the
shape of the hole! That resulted in a few short-lived attempts at
round-hole cards, etc.),
and patented the "brush against brass roller". That resulted in a few
matrix readers, soon followed by CDC and others finally getting around to
making light-and-photocell readers, that so out-performed IBM's readers
that it significantly strengthened IBM's competitors.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:14 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
Hi,
Back in the mid to late 80's I used to see all of these IBM tech's on
the city buses and in the streets with these handheld devices, they were
standard IBM off-white with a small keyboard on them, the size of a
footprint of a VHS cassette, but about 1.5 times as thick...
They were using them to send and receive text messages to the service
center and to one another (Pre-cursor to AOL IM'ing I suppose...)
This was in New York City, I'm assuming it must've been either across
an early text message pager type network or a nascent cellular setup
that IBM established for its service techs...
Anyone have one of these? Know what they are called? Model#,
photo's, spec's, etc?
I would love to get one if possible.
Thanks,
curt
4:19 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
Hi,
Back in the mid to late 80's I used to see all of these IBM tech's
on the city buses and in the streets with these handheld devices, they
were standard IBM off-white with a small keyboard on them, the size of
a footprint of a VHS cassette, but about 1.5 times as thick...
They were using them to send and receive text messages to the
service center and to one another (Pre-cursor to AOL IM'ing I suppose...)
This was in New York City, I'm assuming it must've been either
across an early text message pager type network or a nascent cellular
setup that IBM established for its service techs...
IBM PCradio?
4:40 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
You have any photo's of one of the units? It might've been over a
packet radio network at the time...
Evan Koblentz wrote:
Hi,
Back in the mid to late 80's I used to see all of these IBM tech's
on the city buses and in the streets with these handheld devices,
they were standard IBM off-white with a small keyboard on them, the
size of a footprint of a VHS cassette, but about 1.5 times as thick...
They were using them to send and receive text messages to the
service center and to one another (Pre-cursor to AOL IM'ing I
suppose...)
This was in New York City, I'm assuming it must've been either
across an early text message pager type network or a nascent cellular
setup that IBM established for its service techs...
IBM PCradio?
5:01 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
On 2010 Oct 26, at 1:40 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
You have any photo's of one of the units? It
might've been over a
packet radio network at the time...
google gives slightly different result for "IBM PCradio" and "IBM PC
radio".
Photos:
http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=pcradio
From http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1991.html:
"The company announces the IBM 9075 PCradio, a battery-powered
personal computer
that lets mobile workers, such as service technicians, get
information,
order parts and update customer records without leaving their job
sites
via radio, cellular or telephone communications."
5:13 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
Nope, this wasn't a laptop, it was no bigger then a very thick VHS tape
with (what I'm remembering...) a 2, maybe 4 line X 80 LCD window on it....
Brent Hilpert wrote:
On 2010 Oct 26, at 1:40 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum
wrote:
You have any photo's of one of the units?
It might've been over a
packet radio network at the time...
google gives slightly different result for "IBM PCradio" and "IBM PC
radio".
Photos:
http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=pcradio
From http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1991.html:
"The company announces the IBM 9075 PCradio, a battery-powered
personal computer
that lets mobile workers, such as service technicians, get
information,
order parts and update customer records without leaving their job
sites
via radio, cellular or telephone communications."
5:23 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
Ohhh yes, I've seen those. I believe they are POCSAG (pager
protocol) terminals. Motorola made a bunch of those, possibly other
companies as well. I've seen utility companies use them as well, right
around that time.
-Dave
On 10/26/10 5:13 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Nope, this wasn't a laptop, it was no bigger then
a very thick VHS tape
with (what I'm remembering...) a 2, maybe 4 line X 80 LCD window on it....
Brent Hilpert wrote:
> On 2010 Oct 26, at 1:40 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
>
> > You have any photo's of one of the units? It might've been over a
> packet radio network at the time...
>
> google gives slightly different result for "IBM PCradio" and "IBM PC
> radio".
>
> Photos:
> http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=pcradio
>
> From http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1991.html:
> "The company announces the IBM 9075 PCradio, a battery-powered
> personal computer
> that lets mobile workers, such as service technicians, get information,
> order parts and update customer records without leaving their job sites
> via radio, cellular or telephone communications."
>
>
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
?Ohhh yes, I've seen those. ?I believe they are POCSAG (pager protocol)
terminals. ?Motorola made a bunch of those, possibly other companies as
well. ?I've seen utility companies use them as well, right around that time.
Yep...working retail near Motorola HQ (Schaumburg, IL) in the mid 90s,
I'd see their guys come in with those all the time. And I have seen
the IBM-branded ones in the hands of mainframe techs a bit later on.
Might even have seen some for sale at hamfests once they were retired.
6:18 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
On 10/26/10 6:14 PM, Jason T wrote:
Yes I've seen them at hamfests and surplus dealers. I always wanted
to play with one, but they seemed very opaque at the time, not much
information available about them. Now the protocols and stuff are
readily available, but not so much in the late 90s when those boxes were
floating around for cheap.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Ohhh yes,
I've seen those. I believe they are POCSAG (pager protocol)
terminals. Motorola made a bunch of those, possibly other companies as
well. I've seen utility companies use them as well, right around that time.
Yep...working retail near Motorola HQ (Schaumburg, IL) in the mid 90s,
I'd see their guys come in with those all the time. And I have seen
the IBM-branded ones in the hands of mainframe techs a bit later on.
Might even have seen some for sale at hamfests once they were retired.
6:15 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of "IBM Thingy's"...
Nope, this wasn't a laptop
Nor was the PCradio. It's only shaped like a laptop, but it's really
small like a modern netbook, or even smaller, and kind of clunky.
But if it definitely wasn't a clamshell of any size, then it could have
been the same basic idea. I have interviewed some of the people who
designed the PCradio, and learned that there definitely were other versions.
12:14 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
and patented the "brush against brass
roller". ?That resulted in a few
matrix readers, soon followed by CDC and others finally getting around to
making light-and-photocell readers, that so out-performed IBM's readers
that it significantly strengthened IBM's competitors.
I am not sure I would agree - IBMs card handling was pretty superior
(2501, 2520, 3505/3525) to everything else, until the Documations came
into play. For example, look at sorters - the last man standing by a
long shot was the 083.
--
Will
12:53 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
> and patented the "brush against brass
roller". ?That resulted in a few
> matrix readers, soon followed by CDC and others finally getting around to
> making light-and-photocell readers, that so out-performed IBM's readers
> that it significantly strengthened IBM's competitors.
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, William Donzelli wrote:
I am not sure I would agree - IBMs card handling was
pretty superior
(2501, 2520, 3505/3525) to everything else, until the Documations came
into play. For example, look at sorters - the last man standing by a
long shot was the 083.
But, in the earlier quote, the context was input of bulk data into batch
processing computers, such as 360. The optical readers were capable of
much higher speeds, which was the limiting factor in those days of data
processing.
But, EAM was so much more FUN! Using an IBM sorter to alphabetize was a
great way to spend a rainy afternoon.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:04 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
But, in the earlier quote, the context was input of
bulk data into batch
processing computers, such as 360. ?The optical readers were capable of
much higher speeds, which was the limiting factor in those days of data
processing.
IBM 2501. Damn near every 360 installation had one.
It hogged a channel, as it had a built in control unit. 2520 is the
corresponding hoggy punch.
Years ago on this list was a pointer to a Government auction for a lot
of six (!) 2501s. There was also a pointer to a 2501 in Newfoundland.
I wonder if any of these machines survived.
--
Will
12:20 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
My father (NOT a computer historian) used to tell me
that IBM patented the
shape of the hole! ?That resulted in a few short-lived attempts at
round-hole cards, etc.),
More than a few, actually. There were many, including a trinary one
(Super Bee or something. Anyone help?) that used cards with
information only on the four edges of the card, but the choices were
hole, no-hole, or hole-with-no-outside-edge.
--
Will
12:43 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
On 27 Oct 2010 at 0:20, William Donzelli wrote:
I recall decks of cards that were used to identify plants, birds,
etc. Holes along the edges; you inserted knitting needles according
to observed characteristics and shook the deck. The cards left on
the needles (or maybe the ones that fell out; I can't recall) were
your candidates.
Didn't the NCR CRAM use a similar addressing system for its cards--
some sort of edge-hole coding?
--Chuck
My father (NOT
a computer historian) used to tell me that IBM
patented the shape of the hole! ?That resulted in a few short-lived
attempts at round-hole cards, etc.),
More than a few, actually. There were many, including a trinary one
(Super Bee or something. Anyone help?) that used cards with
information only on the four edges of the card, but the choices were
hole, no-hole, or hole-with-no-outside-edge.
12:57 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
I recall decks of cards that were used to identify
plants, birds,
etc. ?Holes along the edges; you inserted knitting needles according
to observed characteristics and shook the deck. ?The cards left on
the needles (or maybe the ones that fell out; I can't recall) were
your candidates.
Yes, that is the idea. Apparently the women that used to do this were
very fast, and could do a sort in a blink of an eye.
--
Will
9:57 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
William Donzelli wrote:
My mother is (was?) one of these women.
Peace... Sridhar
I recall decks
of cards that were used to identify plants, birds,
etc. Holes along the edges; you inserted knitting needles according
to observed characteristics and shook the deck. The cards left on
the needles (or maybe the ones that fell out; I can't recall) were
your candidates.
Yes, that is the idea. Apparently the women that used to do this were
very fast, and could do a sort in a blink of an eye.
1:10 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
On 2010 Oct 26, at 9:43 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 27 Oct 2010 at 0:20, William Donzelli wrote:
I recall decks of cards that were used to identify plants, birds,
etc. Holes along the edges; you inserted knitting needles according
to observed characteristics and shook the deck. The cards left on
the needles (or maybe the ones that fell out; I can't recall) were
your candidates.
I remember some variation of them being used for library checkout in
the 60's.
I think they were inserted into a clunky machine which stamped the
return date.
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/06/one_dead_media.php
My father
(NOT a computer historian) used to tell me that IBM
patented the shape of the hole! ?That resulted in a few short-lived
attempts at round-hole cards, etc.),
More than a few, actually. There were many, including a trinary one
(Super Bee or something. Anyone help?) that used cards with
information only on the four edges of the card, but the choices were
hole, no-hole, or hole-with-no-outside-edge. Didn't the NCR CRAM use a similar addressing
system for its cards--
some sort of edge-hole coding?
12:50 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
> My father (NOT a computer historian) used to tell
me that IBM patented the
> shape of the hole! ?That resulted in a few short-lived attempts at
> round-hole cards, etc.),
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, William Donzelli wrote:
More than a few, actually. There were many, including
a trinary one
(Super Bee or something. Anyone help?) that used cards with
information only on the four edges of the card, but the choices were
hole, no-hole, or hole-with-no-outside-edge.
As a matter of fact, I asked him what those were called a few months
before he died in 1987. He couldn't remember for sure, but thought that
it was something like "Royal McBee" (If I'm remembering correctly what he
said). He said that calling them "edge-sort" should usually work.
My high school had a bunch of those, with their "knitting needles" for
"how to pick the right college".
But, in the earlier quote, the context was input of bulk data into batch
processing computers, suc as 360.
I don't think that I ever saw any bulk readers for edge punch cards, just
the manual poke the needles and see what falls out of the deck.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:04 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
As a matter of fact, I asked him what those were
called a few months
before he died in 1987. ?He couldn't remember for sure, but thought that
it was something like "Royal McBee" (If I'm remembering correctly what he
said). ?He said that calling them "edge-sort" should usually work.
Yes, Royal McBee. I think I have a box or two of those things.
There is a good book called Punched Cards (or something similar) from
the 1940s or 50s that goes over all of the systems used before
computers came about. Highly recommended.
--
Will
1:24 a.m.
New subject: What are these IBM 'thingys'
Before we go too much further, I need to reiterate my disclaimer:
My father (NOT a computer historian) used to tell me
that, . . .
He did social science research, which included a lot of data processing
using FORTRAN. But, I am NOT going to claim that he was an expert in the
history nor the technology.
My father never fully seemed to understand why there were multiple
sizes of Phillips screwdrivers, so I was a little surprised that he seemed
to understand the principle of the brush and brass roller.
I mention that he was my source for that information, because I can't
verify the accuracy. And, I don't know what HIS source was for that
information.
I may well be trying to claim that OS/2 for the PDP-11 was written in
Valtrep, so I want to clarify that my source could have been WRONG.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5023
days inactive
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23 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
evan＠snarc.net -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk -
silent700＠gmail.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com