Just curious how many Hewlett-Packard Integral computers were sold. We have one here at the SMECC Museum that we are building a display around it for.
31 Jan
2021
31 Jan
'21
10:47 a.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 9:01 AM ED SHARPE via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Just curious how many Hewlett-Packard Integral?
computers were sold.??
We have one here at the SMECC Museum that we are building a display around it for.??
Of course we are looking for any advertising material, posters or anyting visually
related to this computer to make the display "more than just a computer on the
table"?
Please let us know if you have any material that would fit this need!??
Thank you very much in advance
Ed Sharpe - Archivist?? for SMECC
As to the number sold, you should be able to get a sense of it by collecting serial
numbers from those who have them - once you get enough of them (maybe 20 or so) you should
get a sense of about where the numbering started and where it ended. I have two units and
if you're interested I can pull the numbers and send them along.
31 Jan
31 Jan
11:57 a.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 9:01 AM ED SHARPE via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Just curious how many Hewlett-Packard Integral?
computers were sold.??
We have one here at the SMECC Museum that we are building a display around it for.??
Of course we are looking for any advertising material, posters or anyting visually
related to this computer to make the display "more than just a computer on the
table"?
Please let us know if you have any material that would fit this need!??
Thank you very much in advance
Ed Sharpe - Archivist?? for SMECC
There is one up on Ebay where you can read the serial number - which is 2505A01815 (the
first 4 digits are the build week/year indicator [maybe 25th week of 1985]; "A"
is place of mfg [US]; 01815 is the number).
2:01 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
Wayne after Ed:
As to the number sold, you should be able to get a
sense of it by collecting serial numbers from those who have them - once you get enough of
them (maybe 20 or so) you should get a sense of about where the numbering started and
where it ended.
I'm curious to what degree people have used serial number intelligence
gathering and countermeasures in the industry. Like were/are there
market research firms that would go to Fry's and record numbers off of
boxes to try to extrapolate sales for things like printer consumables,
and whether companies like HP ever took measures to try to obfuscate
the potential information content of their product serial numbers.
I always thought this could be a fun business idea.
You could do the same thing with similar data like fast food
restaurant receipt numbers etc. It might be a good model for
crowd-sourced data collection.
2:47 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
I'm curious to what degree people have used serial
number
intelligence gathering and countermeasures in the industry. Like
were/are there market research firms that would go to Fry's and
record numbers off of boxes to try to extrapolate sales for things
like printer consumables, and whether companies like HP ever took
measures to try to obfuscate the potential information content of
their product serial numbers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/20/secondworldwar.tvandradio
De
3:21 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
> I'm curious to what degree people have used
serial number
> intelligence gathering and countermeasures in the industry. Like
> were/are there market research firms that would go to Fry's and
> record numbers off of boxes to try to extrapolate sales for things
> like printer consumables, and whether companies like HP ever took
> measures to try to obfuscate the potential information content of
> their product serial numbers.
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
A minor glitch, common to MOST studies is the assumption that the sample
is representative of the whole.
But, consider that the tanks were presumably put into service immediately,
as soon as they could leave the factory.
Therefore, #20 was in use for a while longer before #92. Unstated was
whether they had any idea how long that had been.
It is likely that the tanks that were captured were probably captured
because they broke down, or were no longer working as well as the fresh
ones. That would tend to bias the sample as tending to be the oldest.
Therefore, it would be likely (not a certainty) that the newest ones,
being in better condition, and POSSIBLY including some improvements were
more likely to have been able to get away. That would call for detailed
comparison of #20 with #92, looking for any differences, AND looking to
see how well they had been maintained. (Loss of efficiency over time can
be a function of maintenance)
Admittedly,within their tiny sample, the numbers are fairly well
distributed, although there is a definite increasing gap between numbers
between.
The formula assumes that production is at a constant rate, rather than
speeding up over time (early production is usually not as fast as later),
or slowing down with parts shortages.
Their sample was too small to be completely trusted as being
representative. Realistically, there were numerous factors that could
make such a tiny sample unrepresentative. And therefore, the estimate
of 109 should have been plus or minus a LARGE number.
It is not clear nor stated how many had been captured by the time that
they made the GUESS of 246 for an actual number of 245.
Perhaps they had captured hundreds by then, and could more reliably
estimate. If they had still captured only a few, then their guess was
extraordinarily lucky. The reliability of the calculation increases
dramatically as the sample size grows.
3:36 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 05:47:49PM -0500, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
Nice article, but certain paragraph made me uneasy:
"By 1941-42, the allies knew that US and even British tanks had been
technically superior to German Panzer tanks in combat, but they were
worried about the capabilities of the new marks IV and V. "
Oh really. I remember that US combat manual (or whatever they were
called) from the era recommended a Tiger should be engaged by at least
four Shermans. Assuming Tiger was waiting for them coming by the road,
the first one was to be destroyed by the first shot, then the next one
or two while they were getting closer to German tank, and finally the
fourth had a chance to outmanouver the Tiger (they really sucked in
dancing, from what I have read) and pack it a shot in the back from
close distance.
Sorry for nitpicking. Perhaps my memory comes from alternative
reality, but it rhymes with data claiming that number of M4 Shermans
produced during 1942-1945 period was almost 50000.
As of the problem itself, here are some links. It is called "German
tanks problem".
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318184
https://www.eadan.net/blog/german-tank-problem/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem
--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola
--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **
I'm
curious to what degree people have used serial number
intelligence gathering and countermeasures in the industry. Like
were/are there market research firms that would go to Fry's and
record numbers off of boxes to try to extrapolate sales for things
like printer consumables, and whether companies like HP ever took
measures to try to obfuscate the potential information content of
their product serial numbers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/20/secondworldwar.tvandradio
De
3:59 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
On Mon, 1 Feb 2021, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote:
Nice article, but certain paragraph made me uneasy:
"By 1941-42, the allies knew that US and even British tanks had been
technically superior to German Panzer tanks in combat, but they were
worried about the capabilities of the new marks IV and V. "
Oh really. I remember that US combat manual (or whatever they were
called) from the era recommended a Tiger should be engaged by at least
four Shermans. Assuming Tiger was waiting for them coming by the road,
the first one was to be destroyed by the first shot, then the next one
or two while they were getting closer to German tank, and finally the
fourth had a chance to outmanouver the Tiger (they really sucked in
dancing, from what I have read) and pack it a shot in the back from
close distance.
Sorry for nitpicking. Perhaps my memory comes from alternative
reality, but it rhymes with data claiming that number of M4 Shermans
produced during 1942-1945 period was almost 50000.
As of the problem itself, here are some links. It is called "German
tanks problem".
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318184
https://www.eadan.net/blog/german-tank-problem/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem
Thank you for the references.
I know nothing of any actual details about tanks.
But, "Oddball" (Donald Sutherland) in "Kelly's Heroes" said that
the only
way that they could take on a Tiger,
"Yeah. Look, a Tiger has only one weak point. That's its ass. You got to
hit it point blank and you've got to hit it from behind."
5:49 p.m.
New subject: Serial numbers intelligence
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 03:59:27PM -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
[...]
I know nothing of any actual details about tanks.
But, "Oddball" (Donald Sutherland) in "Kelly's Heroes" said that
the
only way that they could take on a Tiger, "Yeah. Look, a Tiger has
only one weak point. That's its ass. You got to hit it point blank
and you've got to hit it from behind."
Heh. I half-liked the movie. Action moments seemed ok to me, but the
overall theme of "let's make some money of this", not so much.
I do not have extensive knowledge about equipment, but in my younger
years I was an avid strategy gamer. Turn-based strategy rather than
real-time one. I wanted to make educated choices, so I started to read
from various places, watching documentaries etc. So,
not an expert,
just a somehow educated gamer. So, yes, if the armageddon happens, I
might know what to pick from one of those military storages... But I
would rather pick an amateur telescope.
Comparing tank performance is a broad subject, of course. And off
topic. I have learned few shocking things about those beasts. I do not
remember all the details I used to, but I was not amazed from what I
learned about US and British tanks... Stuff like a round from 88mm
German gun could penetrate both side walls of the best opposing
tank. With poor fellows sitting inside. As I do not play anymore (lack
of time), I still read an article or two on the military history. I
came to thinking that war is totally unglorious business, each side
makes errors and the winner is, whoever makes smaller number of
catastrophic ones. Or can survive on his legs while the opponent
cannot, even if he made less errors. Etc.
A bit closer to interests of this list, there was a vast field of
information services supporting the high command. Punch cards, trucks
with sorters and card punches landing on shores of Normandy... Not as
a part of assault forces, of course. A subject (almost) completely
lost from war movies. I have barely scratched it.
--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola
--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **
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cisin＠xenosoft.com -
drb＠msu.edu -
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Wayne.Smith＠warnerbros.com