22 Feb
2017
22 Feb
'17
1:49 p.m.
From: Jim Stephens
That A6006 produces a hit in this document
...
AAV11-C ANALOG OUTPUT BOARD
...
4 DACs, and a DC-DC converter.
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
Noel
22 Feb
22 Feb
1:58 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Feb 22, 2017, at 1:49 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at
mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
Speaking of which, I wonder if the code for that program still exists. Would be nice to
run on the LGPs that are still around (or on the simulator).
paul
From: Jim Stephens
That A6006 produces a hit in this document
...
AAV11-C ANALOG OUTPUT BOARD
...
4 DACs, and a DC-DC converter.
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-) 
2:18 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On 2/22/17 1:58 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
The AAV11-C is an analog output board and I know of no code for it as it
was usually part of a user application.
Same for its complementing Analog input board ADV-11 M8000 and in
systemss ussually appered with M6010
digital output card, IBV-11 M7954 instrument bus interface. See MINC-11
systems for more.
The sound (not music) card was actually a internally built and not sold
(that I know of). But people did use the D/A
cards to do music by outputting in real time created waveforms or by
toggling bits on parallel cards.
Allison
On Feb 22,
2017, at 1:49 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
Speaking of which, I wonder if the code for that program still exists. Would be nice to
run on the LGPs that are still around (or on the simulator). From: Jim Stephens
That A6006 produces a hit in this document
...
AAV11-C ANALOG OUTPUT BOARD
...
4 DACs, and a DC-DC converter.
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output
board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
paul
2:51 p.m.
New subject: AAV-11
On Feb 22, 2017, at 2:18 PM, allison <ajp166 at
verizon.net> wrote:
At my alma mater, the physics department had an 11/20 with AD01 and AA11 analog I/O, as
well as DR11-A digital I/O and KW11-P programmable clock. Originally that system ran DOS
(8 kW, RC-11 system disk). One of the professors had extended DEC BASIC to drive those
peripherals. For an honors project, I did the same and more with RT BASIC. Among other
things, you could write interrupt handlers in BASIC to respond to digital inputs or clock
signals.
I also wrote a crude CRT display program by sending X/Y pairs to the AD01 and then to the
X and Y inputs of a scope. Refresh memory was on the RC11, using bus address increment to
DMA directly from disk to AD01.
paul
...
The AAV11-C is an analog output board
and I know of no code for it as it was usually part of a user application.
Same for its complementing Analog input board ADV-11 M8000 and in systemss ussually
appered with M6010
digital output card, IBV-11 M7954 instrument bus interface. See MINC-11 systems for
more. 
23 Feb
23 Feb
3:23 a.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison wrote:
The sound (not music) card was actually a internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
6:10 a.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On 02/23/2017 03:23 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison
wrote:
The sound card was a rare item and i'd guess there are very few ever
built and never sold.
Why not find the very much more common D to A card and drive that with
software
to make noise or music. Or even a single bit output!
Allison
The sound (not music) card was actually a
internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have
one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
11:04 a.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 3:23 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison
wrote:
Last time I needed just a beep it was the DTR line on the async card
being flipped
by a simple loop. If you flip it and leave it you get a click....
Obviously you need
an amplifier(maybe or a transistor) and speaker to hear it.
The sound card I have is not part of the OS (any) and there is no
support so it does
nothing without code and a d/a or even a few bits will do sound.
FYI there was many articles in the micro world on doing sound and music
in Byte and DDJ back when (1975 to mid 80s) in the time before PCs and
sound cards. For example Processor Technologies Music system.
See http://www.sol20.org/manuals/music.pdf for the manual on that.
I believe it was Polymorphic systems that did a polyphonic sound system
for z80 computers.
Those are samples of interest connected with computer music back then.
Allison
The sound (not music) card was actually a
internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have
one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
11:16 a.m.
New subject: story of Mel
________________________________________
From: cctech [cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of allison [ajp166 at
verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:04 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 3:23 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison
wrote:
Last time I needed just a beep it was the DTR line on the async card
being flipped
by a simple loop. If you flip it and leave it you get a click....
Obviously you need
an amplifier(maybe or a transistor) and speaker to hear it.
The sound card I have is not part of the OS (any) and there is no
support so it does
nothing without code and a d/a or even a few bits will do sound.
FYI there was many articles in the micro world on doing sound and music
in Byte and DDJ back when (1975 to mid 80s) in the time before PCs and
sound cards. For example Processor Technologies Music system.
See http://www.sol20.org/manuals/music.pdf for the manual on that.
I believe it was Polymorphic systems that did a polyphonic sound system
for z80 computers.
Those are samples of interest connected with computer music back then.
____________________________________________
I always thought music in the old days was more about MIDI and letting
something designed for it do the work ala Usenix Nashville 1991.
bill
The sound (not music) card was actually a
internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have
one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
1:18 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
________________________________________
From: cctech [cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of allison [ajp166 at
verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:04 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 3:23 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
To you that's the old days. To me its recent history.
Midi became the common bus to talk to instruments and drivers
(keyboards, synthetic strings and all) of
all sorts. It popped up in the early 80s as a viable bus for music and
stage control IO.
Before midi... when dirt was relatively new then, we used computers and
software to do things like
flip the PDP-8 link bit and a speaker attached. Fancy would have been
a R2R of 5 or 8 bits as simple
D/A on a parallel output port (or LP11) and with the right timing loops
and maybe some data you could
synthesize any waveform and most any pitch. if the machine was fast
enough. Of course you need a
music input too and something to compile it to data and commands (or did
it using a #2 and paper).
There was a major conference in the 70s for computer generated music.
Look up NOTRAN.
Allison
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison
wrote:
Last time I needed just a beep it was the DTR line on the async card
being flipped
by a simple loop. If you flip it and leave it you get a click....
Obviously you need
an amplifier(maybe or a transistor) and speaker to hear it.
The sound card I have is not part of the OS (any) and there is no
support so it does
nothing without code and a d/a or even a few bits will do sound.
FYI there was many articles in the micro world on doing sound and music
in Byte and DDJ back when (1975 to mid 80s) in the time before PCs and
sound cards. For example Processor Technologies Music system.
See http://www.sol20.org/manuals/music.pdf for the manual on that.
I believe it was Polymorphic systems that did a polyphonic sound system
for z80 computers.
Those are samples of interest connected with computer music back then.
____________________________________________
I always thought music in the old days was more about MIDI and letting
something designed for it do the work ala Usenix Nashville 1991.
bill
The sound (not music) card was actually a
internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have
one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
1:24 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
________________________________________
From: cctech [cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of allison [ajp166 at
verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:04 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: story of Mel
On 2/23/17 3:23 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
Right after the creation of dirt was the first Philadelphia computer
music Festival...
I have the vinyl created back then for it and its interesting listening.
https://www.vintagecomputermusic.com/notran_system.php
This is how it was done when programmer wrote code. ;)
Allison
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:18:50PM -0500, allison
wrote:
Last time I needed just a beep it was the DTR line on the async card
being flipped
by a simple loop. If you flip it and leave it you get a click....
Obviously you need
an amplifier(maybe or a transistor) and speaker to hear it.
The sound card I have is not part of the OS (any) and there is no
support so it does
nothing without code and a d/a or even a few bits will do sound.
FYI there was many articles in the micro world on doing sound and music
in Byte and DDJ back when (1975 to mid 80s) in the time before PCs and
sound cards. For example Processor Technologies Music system.
See http://www.sol20.org/manuals/music.pdf for the manual on that.
I believe it was Polymorphic systems that did a polyphonic sound system
for z80 computers.
Those are samples of interest connected with computer music back then.
____________________________________________
I always thought music in the old days was more about MIDI and letting
something designed for it do the work ala Usenix Nashville 1991.
bill The sound (not music) card was actually a
internally built and not sold
(that I know of).
There must have been a few though, since several claim to have
one and
it even showed up on ebay.
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
/P
2:45 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Feb 23, 2017 12:23 AM, "Pontus Pihlgren" <pontus at update.uu.se>
wrote:
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
What do you have for graphics? I have a DEC VSV11 board set and a Matrox
QC-640 board.
3:02 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
3:08 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
Indeed. That break-point is entirely relative to one's own age and
experiences... for me, "ancient history" is either pre-PET/Apple
II/TRS-80 stuff or perhaps just "8-bit home micros", depending on the
context.
-ethan
3:31 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: story of Mel
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin
at xenosoft.com> wrote:
-------
My "ancient history" is running a system consisting of an IBM 082, an 085, a
604, a 402 and a 514, the original "sneakernet"; later, after promotion to run
the statistics department, a relatively rare 101.
Even made the 402 multiply (albeit slowly) when "they" said it couldn't be
done; many happy memories...
m
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
Indeed. That break-point is entirely relative to one's own age and
experiences... for me, "ancient history" is either pre-PET/Apple
II/TRS-80 stuff or perhaps just "8-bit home micros", depending on the
context.
-ethan 
3:46 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: story of Mel
There are a few Easter eggs on my web site, one points to my biography.
Click on "1949" in the copyright statement at the bottom of my home page,
vintagecomputer.net
Bill
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Fred Cisin
<cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
-------
My "ancient history" is running a system consisting of an IBM 082, an 085,
a 604, a 402 and a 514, the original "sneakernet"; later, after promotion
to run the statistics department, a relatively rare 101.
Even made the 402 multiply (albeit slowly) when "they" said it couldn't be
done; many happy memories...
m
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
Indeed. That break-point is entirely relative to one's own age and
experiences... for me, "ancient history" is either pre-PET/Apple
II/TRS-80 stuff or perhaps just "8-bit home micros", depending on the
context.
-ethan
4:14 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fred Cisin [cisin at
xenosoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 3:02 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: story of Mel
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
___________________________________
I certainly hope people here don't think I'm a youngster since I just (re)joined
the list. I started in computers with the 1401. I didn't look at computer generated
music until I saw the talks at Usenix Nashville 1991. Especialy the one done by
the guys from Bell Labs. I always had an interest in music as well as computers
but didn't connect the two at first. Now I am very interested in MIDI. I am in the
process of converting an old Baldwin 46H Console to MIDI (as the electronics in it
were shot and beyond possibility of repair.) Once I had my COCO 3's up again if
I coudn't figure it out myself I was going to ask about interfacing between my
Casio keyboard and my Orchestra-90. It could prove rather interesting to use
a COCO as the sysnthesizer for the Console Organ once it is rewired. :-)
bill
10:12 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On February 23, 2017 2:02:50 PM CST, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I love the wisdom of Allison's remark, that
what some of us still see as "recent current events"
is "ancient history" for the youngsters.
and the youngsters insist on reinventing dirt.
--
Chris Elmquist
24 Feb
24 Feb
1:33 a.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:45:44AM -0800, Glen Slick wrote:
On Feb 23, 2017 12:23 AM, "Pontus Pihlgren"
<pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
What do you have for graphics? I have a DEC VSV11 board set and a Matrox
QC-640 board.
I have a few. A loose untested VSV90, a VTV01 in an 11/34 (also no
tested), a loose VCB02, a Matrox boardset which I know little about,
and VSV11 which should work.
/P
8:55 a.m.
New subject: DEC VSV11 - was Re: story of Mel
On 2017-02-23 2:45 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
On Feb 23, 2017 12:23 AM, "Pontus Pihlgren"
<pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
(I'm just hoping I'l get lucky and find one.. I have an 11/73 with
graphics, it would be nice to add sound to it)
What do you have for graphics? I have a DEC VSV11 board set and a Matrox
QC-640 board.
For anyone interested - There are three VSV11's on ebay at the moment.
--Toby (not affiliated)
22 Feb
22 Feb
3:42 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> writes:
Speaking of which, I wonder if the code for that
program still exists.
Would be nice to run on the LGPs that are still around (or on the
simulator).
The LGP-30 version certainly does:
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30/papertapes/Games/
The story is about porting it to the RPC-4000, though. The manual for
the RPC-4000 version (including the cheat switch) is on Bitsavers:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/royalPrecision/RPC-4000/programWrite…
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
4:08 p.m.
New subject: story of Mel
On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:42:33 +0000, Adam Sampson wrote
Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> writes:
I've disassembled and partly annoted that; it turns out the LGP30 version also
has a 'cheat switch', and invoking it benefits the player.
--
Kevin Schoedel <schoedel at kw.igs.net> VA3TCS
Speaking of which, I wonder if the code for that
program still exists.
Would be nice to run on the LGPs that are still around (or on the
simulator).
The LGP-30 version certainly does:
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30/papertapes/Games/
23 Feb
23 Feb
3:22 a.m.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 01:49:10PM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
But of course I have :)
6:36 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 01:49:10PM -0500, Noel Chiappa
wrote:
As have I. In fact I am pretty sure I referenced it in my Ph.D. thesis...
-tony
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
But of course I have :) 
12:24 p.m.
On 2/23/2017 4:36 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Pontus Pihlgren
<pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
PDP 8's sound is more fun ... Listen via radio. :)
Ben.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 01:49:10PM -0500, Noel
Chiappa wrote:
As have I. In fact I am pretty sure I referenced it in my Ph.D. thesis...
-tony
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
But of course I have :)
8:25 a.m.
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Noel Chiappa [jnc at
mercury.lcs.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:49 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Q Bus Music Board
From: Jim Stephens
That A6006 produces a hit in this document
...
AAV11-C ANALOG OUTPUT BOARD
...
4 DACs, and a DC-DC converter.
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
Noel
________________________________________
I think IO have a couple of them but I never heard them play music. :-)
bill
10:48 a.m.
On 2/23/17 8:25 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Noel Chiappa [jnc at
mercury.lcs.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:49 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Q Bus Music Board
I have two of them and a RT-11 program in macro that can output tones
and clicks
music is just an extension of that.
To do music (or sounds with an D/A) card its a matter of moving a
sequence of bytes/words
in a regular periodic rate representing the voltage for instant of the
wave form.
For tones its a loop with values for amplitude, frequency, and wave shape.
For a simple output card its a matter of changing the state of a single
bit at the required rate
(flip it once every half millisecond and you get a 1khz tone).
If an PDP-8, 6502, 8080 and many others can do it a pdp-11 and any
output can.
Hell I've heard Line printers play music and asr33s rattling out a crude
version of
Jingle bells complete with bell!
Allison
From: Jim Stephens
That A6006 produces a hit in this document
...
AAV11-C ANALOG OUTPUT BOARD
...
4 DACs, and a DC-DC converter.
Sounds like it might be a standard analog output board, for lab settings.
I'll bet the music thing is some marketing ploy, like the card game in 'The
Story of Mel'. (What, you haven't read 'The Story of Mel'?!? :-)
Noel
________________________________________
I think IO have a couple of them but I never heard them play music. :-)
bill
11:34 a.m.
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Pontus Pihlgren [pontus at
Update.UU.SE]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:26 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Q Bus Music Board
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 01:25:24PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
I think IO have a couple of them but I never heard
them play music. :-)
A couple of A6006 or a couple of Q Bus Music Boards?
(I'm guessing A6006, I think that even I have D/A boards lying
around)
__________________________________________
Don't remember the numbers and they are packed away as I haven't done much
with my PDP's since moving 3 yearsago but they are the A/D, D/A boards probably
from a MINC somewhere. At the time I got them I was
getting interested in
robotics, HVAC and home control and the PDP's seemed like
reasonale candidates
as it's all for fun anyway. Might be fun to make one talk Bluetooth and then use it
to control Lego MIndstorms and even my Roomba's.
bill
2705
days inactive
2707
days old
27 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
ats＠offog.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
schoedel＠kw.igs.net -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au