At 09:32 09/06/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk &lt;bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca&gt; wrote: [snip] Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked bigtime, but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made nowadays... (that's why the newest keyboard I use on any PeeCee is an IBM "klackety" keyboard CoCo...) and although they were a little harder to upgrade than today's machines, they were easier to hack & interface to. Sure, they weren't on par to the minis & mainframes of the same timeframe, but that's true today; and it was still a very capable, affordable & expandable computer in it's own right. [whew... just had to get that out of the way; 6809's being my favorite & all... ;-) ] Huh? That's where I beg to differ with you! I *lusted* over the ads in HotCoCo & Rainbow mags for the Chieftain (methinks... weren't many of those ads), and even more so, the Gimix... The Gimix was one *bitchin'* box - ran OS-9 level 2 (wasn't there a level 3 for that?), it could take 512K of RAM if you wanted it to, and this was by '83 or '84... It truly was a mini, as it was designed to run multiuser apps on multiple terminals with no problem... I dunno if they ever made a video card for it.... <MODE="Shameful Begging"> Anyone have a Gimix that needs a new, loving home??? hint, hint, hint... </MODE> Maybe if the "real" problems you are talking about are displaying JPGs & whatnot... the only thing I can think of that doesn't involve grafix which is too much for it involves Crypto... No, it couldn't - it was a flat memory space. However, with the right SAM, bank switching was available & with some "creative memory accounting" it worked quite well, especially with OS-9. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it... Roger "Merch" Merchberger

At 14:00 09/06/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk &lt;bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca&gt; wrote: Huh? The CoCo had a standard RS-232 port, with the exception of the control lines. It ran standard RS-232 voltages & with software handshaking worked just fine, albeit slowly as it was bit-banged instead of UART driven (which on the CoCo1 & 2 I can sympathize with... but to not include a UART on the CoCo3 as they'd become *very* cheap by then, that was just plain *stoopid*... :-( ) Huh? 40Mhz ain't fast enough for you for a 6809??? :-) Check here: http://www.inicore.com/core_lib/inicpu.htm Granted, I have *no* idea how much these cost or anything... :-/ *I* wish OS-9/68K was available for my Palm... It'd knock PalmOS for a loop! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: AND connector It was SERIAL, and it was close enough to RS-232 for most COMMON uses. But it was NOT RS-232 EXCEPT,... Somebody challenged Radio Shack about calling their serial port "RS-232". The Radio Shack answer was, "Of course it is really RS-232. The RS in RS-232 stands for "Radio Shack", so we can make any changes that we want in the standard."

They had sound too on the Commode-ores, the Coco's too IIRC. I think they left the serial port off (even on the POS Sanyo MBC-555-2 that I had) to get you for another expnsive add-on after you committed a lot of money for the unit itself. The Sanyo serial port was a crap 8250 UART and it cost nearly $100 for a 3x3 card that screwed to the back, had only a few parts such as a UART and 1488/1489 send/recieve and some resistors, caps and diodes. The Sanyo had a Ctrl key but NO Alt, u nderrated power supply, bitmap (Apple type) video on a supposed IBM compat, and other really pain in the rump problems. Witht he help of a few BBS systems, numerous editions of Soft Sector magazine and newsletters froma few Sanyo user's groups I finally had the machine where I was comfy with it, then dropped it for a clone and a PS/2. A real POS was that chicklet keyboard on the PCjr...after literally hours on end on those crappy keyboards I was so relieved to get off t hat machine to go to an AT with a tactile Alps switch keyboard. I would love to have a bulldozer and run over any more that are in existence (not really but I feel they suck that much). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:01 PM -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum -> tube -> -> -> Roger Merchberger wrote: -> -> > Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked -> > bigtime, but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made -> > nowadays... (that's why the newest keyboard I use on any PeeCee is an -> > IBM "klackety" keyboard from '84 or so... and wouldn't mind having an -> > interface for these on my CoCo...) and although they were a little -> > harder to upgrade than today's machines, they were easier to hack & -> > interface to. Sure, they weren't on par to the minis & -> mainframes of the -> > same timeframe, but that's true today; and it was still a very -> capable, -> > affordable & expandable computer in it's own right. -> -> Not really a general purpose computer more like the game console -> box of today. -> The C64/Coco/Apple was the quick and simple computer - 8k rom - 64k D-ram -> and a graphics chip and CPU. It was the cost cutting that got ya -> like none of -> the common 8 bit computers had a serial port. Even the AT was -> too cheap to -> drive the IRQ open collector. -> -> > [whew... just had to get that out of the way; 6809's being my -> favorite & -> > all... ;-) ] -> That was a toss up for me between the 6809 and the PDP-8. -> Needless to say I -> working a 12/24 bit CPU that reminds you of the 6809. -> http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html -> -> >> Nobody in the USA made a nice 6809 machine. -> > -> > -> > Huh? That's where I beg to differ with you! I *lusted* over the ads in -> > HotCoCo & Rainbow mags for the Chieftain (methinks... weren't many of -> > those ads), and even more so, the Gimix... The Gimix was one -> *bitchin'* -> > box - ran OS-9 level 2 (wasn't there a level 3 for that?), it -> could take -> > 512K of RAM if you wanted it to, and this was by '83 or '84... -> It truly -> > was a mini, as it was designed to run multiuser apps on multiple -> > terminals with no problem... I dunno if they ever made a video -> card for -> > it.... -> -> I had forgot about them. -> -> > No, it couldn't - it was a flat memory space. However, with the right -> > SAM, bank switching was available & with some "creative memory -> > accounting" it worked quite well, especially with OS-9. -> I suspect one could decode the opcodes since you get instruction fetch -> information with the 6809.. -> -> > That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it... -> > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -> -> Mind you with fast ram now days and programable logic a nice OS-9 -> machine could be built. Finding a fast 6809 chip is the problem. -> Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. -> -> ->

As far as I recollect it was the same scheme as the apple graphics. IBM software worked ok as long as it wasn't made as direct hardware addressing of the IBM video. The "upgrade" video card with RAM add-on gave the MBC-5xx sereis actual hardware CGA for a mere $275 (what a deal huh, and that was with bare DRAM sockets) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Sellam Ismail -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:45 PM -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum -> tube -> -> -> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> -> > Sanyo had a Ctrl key but NO Alt, u nderrated power supply, -> bitmap (Apple -> > type) video on a supposed IBM compat, and other really pain in the rump -> -> So this has always intrigued me about the Sanyo. Are you saying that the -> graphics screen on the MBC-55x was mapped in an interlaced fashion? Did -> it have the same addressing? -> -> Sellam Ismail Vintage -> Computer Festival -> ----------------------------------------------------------------- -> ------------- -> International Man of Intrigue and Danger -> http://www.vintage.org -> -> * Old computing resources for business and academia at -> www.VintageTech.com * ->

The only place that you're likely to find a 16C is on E-bay unless you're offering an EXTREMELY interesting trade. The 16Cs are like gold and have been for several years. Joe At 09:47 PM 9/6/02 -0700, you wrote:

Here's an interesting application of technology. This fellow claims to have used a flatbed scanner to make images of records and has written some software to decode the music from those images. http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/ Obviously the resulting sound quality is a bit crude, but it's an interesting hack. -brian.

Is it a JAMMA compatable board? If so you might want to look into the Multi-JAMMA adapter that lets you put 6 JAMMA boards in your cabinet. Or is this one of the games that has specialized controls? I think getting into Arcade systems is even more dangerous than getting into Classic Computers. As my wife loves our Neo Geo 4-Slot, so she doesn't object to new games for it (gotta love cartridge based arcade systems). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying to get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. : ) Power issues and space.... It would be interesting to find just how many of us cross over from classic computers into arcade games. After all, arcade games are single-purpose computers anyways...... - Matt At 04:36 PM 9/7/2002 -0700, you wrote: Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.htmlhtml. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

I don't know, the BA213 (VAX 3400?) with a PDP-8/e on top make an excellent place to sit the dish full of quarters for our Neo Geo. My guess is just about anyone under the age of 35-45. Of course most people here are probably using MAME, rather than having their own Arcade cabinets. It's intesting, but neither my wife or I were that big of video game fans prior to getting married. After getting married we've found that it's turned into a common hobby. We now have most home console systems, and we got the Neo Geo arcade cabinet as it was cheaper than getting the Neo Geo home console and the games we wanted (she's actually the one that found the cabinet for sale locally, on eBay). On the home consoles we seem to tend to prefer the arcade ports and two player games. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

But when you collect video games like I do, and run them during social events (about 6 of 'em at a time), it's as bad as firing up a VAX. Of course, the wiring in my house sucks. The electricians put an average of three rooms on a 15 amp branch. Jerks.... Yea - no kidding. Try playing Robotron on a PC.... Or Star Wars (using keyboard) I also like putting quarters in my machines. It's sort of a savings account for my addiction. I used to use "Forward Air" and have my games arrive at Houston Intercontinental Airport. From there, I would use a hotshot delivery service to bring them to my house. Shipping to IAH was about $150, and another $25 to have it brought into my garage. Now I just look locally for my stuff. Getting it into the house and past the wife was my task..... (probably the hardest) Recently I grabbed a Centipede for $250. That's a good price (it's in decent condition). Before that was a Missile Command ($650) and a Tempest ($450). On the whole, I find arcade game collecting complementary to my VAX addiction. Both use similar technology (not including mass storage), so the techniques used to fix one can be used with the other. Both devices (VAX and arcade game) are about the same vintage, and use similar components - for the most part. - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.htmlhtml. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" &lt;erd_6502(a)yahoo.com&gt; To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe Cool-- played this on my brothers Nintendo. Rolled the score over once. It wasn't a hard game... Does this thing come around every year? Did I miss it this time? I'm close enough to walk, but IIRC so are you. Bob

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" &lt;erd_6502(a)yahoo.com&gt; To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe One life. It _really_ wasn't a hard game... Cool. If you think of it, ping me. I suppose that might be a problem. 'Course, I have lots of family on call 24/7 if I need anything moved, picked up, delivered, whatever. Being the oldest has it's perks. ^_^ Bob

--- Clayton Frank Helvey &lt;msspcva(a)yahoo.com&gt; wrote: Columbus, OH. The next auction here is 9-Nov. The whole schedule (OH, IN, NJ) is at http://www.usamusement.com/calendar.html There are other companies that run on different circuits. I have never looked into the schedules for VA, but I would suspect that you have one or two within a 3 hour drive. I know that people do show up at the USAA auctions from all over the state and beyond. Yep. Gauntlet is another favorite of mine, but I couldn't afford to get very good at it. I was just amazed at the lack of interest in it. The last time I saw one sell, there were three or four and the first ones went for $300-$400; it was the final one that went cheap. All the really interested parties got theirs early. I also think it's an easy game to play to completion, presuming that you have an endless supply of quarters. Picking up goodies gets you health; dropping coins in the machine gives you more health (1000 or 2000, depending on the switches). I have beaten it on my Lynx. It _is_ an excellent cooperative game, even on _that_ platform (yes, I have multiple Lynx consoles (3) *and* multiple copies of Xenophobe (2)). Once you get the finger memory to move, pick up stuff, and throw bombs at the "Festers", it's a pushover. The higher levels get a little tricky with fires to put out (you have to switch between weapon and fire extinguisher) and with yawning chasms (switch out jetpacks and weapons), but it's lots and lots of running search sweeps and killing everything that's green. Such things exist. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com

Crude yes but pretty cool too. It amazes me what some people will do with their spare time. Next thing you know, he'll start trying to fix some broken old computer just because he thought it might be fun. E.

Ernest wrote: Or maybe even build one... Just FYI, I've chosen to spend my weekends building a COSMAC Elf. As featured in Popular Electronics magazine. Google for "COSMAC Elf" or beg me to FTP the articles to you. It'll have to wait until my ADSL line gets fixed though. Went down on Friday morning, low chance of repair until Wednesday. Later. -- Phil. philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F

Eric Smith wrote: The link does not work for me.

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: With one glaring exception: NO CONTROL KEY. What computer comes without a CONTROL key? That and the RF video out only with no built-in composite video output would have made the CoCo a complete lemon if it weren't for the brilliance of the users that managed to extend and expand it. And OS-9 was also a definite plus. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/413862db/at…

Quothe Bob Lafleur, from writings of Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 10:23:43AM -0400: The tube is apparently functioning as a pre-amplifier; even it it's attached to a power amplifier that uses transistors, it can add some of that "tube sound" to the final output. Of course, if they were going for true hi-fi, surely they'd add some extras like a miniature record player designed to play miniature 33 RPM records, read by a laser, instead of CDs. Of course, what's the point when people are going to be listening to streaming audio, and other forms of digitized (low-fi) audio? ...and if they want something that emphasizes the tube sound, they could build a TubeHead (from PAIA) pre-amp into a custom PeeCee cabinet, and use the output from some random sound card as the input, and it would probably cost less than purchasing that motherboard. Not sure what 5.1 audio is, but a single tube could be a dual triode, and hence be used for stereo (is there such a thing as a quad triode?) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1039 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020907/4ff4de22/at…

Dou-diode-triodes were standard tubes in radios, actually. I am pretty sure there was a quad triode produced, probably for the organ industry. Quite a few very weird types were used (four plate dual triodes, sextuple diodes, etc) - mostly used for frequency dividers. William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: *ahem* Not all digitized audio is low-fi. Peace... Sridhar

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Douglas Wood wrote: D'ya mean like Tony Cole's "ultimate clone"? His machine, with gold plated case ("for RF shielding") made the cover of a bunch of magazines, thereby providing free advertising for his VIPC company far past the cost of building the machine. But that was a long time ago. Now he is more commonly known for his Cray memorabilia. "Tony Cole and the Crays" hmmm. it would be a nice name for a rock band.