19 Mar
1999
19 Mar
'99
2:43 p.m.
I would like to put together a simple PDP-11 system.
I've got a M7270
card (LSI 11 processor) and an M8044-DB card (32KW MOS memory). I've also
got a couple of PDP-11/03 and PDP-11/23 rack chassis that are both QBUS.
I've also got a pair of RX02 drives. Does the M7270 go into an 11/03
chassis?
Yes, it does... same ole' qbus...
What other cards would I need to build a usable '11
? No doubt a floppy
controller card of some sort (although I also recently got the DSD440 to
go with the funky RX02 emulator card) Some sort of serial port for a
terminal (M number?) What is the minimum RT-11 system?
You'll need processor (M7270), memory (M8044), serial line card
(dlv11-J, M8043), boot/terminator (BDV11, REV11, etc), disk
interface card, disk, terminal. Of that list, I think you'll need a
BDV11 or REV11, unless the disk controller you have has on-board
boot (which the DSD880 controllers do have).
If I remember correctly, RT-11 originally booted in as little as
8kb of memory. Later we had to increase the minimum to 12 or 16 kb.
I also picked up the programmers panel for a PDP-11/10.
I'd love to put
together a PDP-11/10 if I new what to look for.
I wish I'd known earlier... I have a couple of pdp-11/05,10 chassis
which I am giving to a group in Rhode Island...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
19 Mar
19 Mar
6:39 p.m.
Megan wrote:
If I remember correctly, RT-11 originally booted in as
little as
8kb of memory. Later we had to increase the minimum to 12 or 16 kb.
And the SPD for RT-11 V5.7 claims that it requires 32 Kbytes for SB,
48 Kbytes for FB, and 76 Kbytes for memory mapped monitors (XM, XB, ZM, ZB).
This is annoying since my GT40 only has 16 Kbytes. Which brings up several
questions:
1) What is the most recent release for which SB (or SJ?) will run
reasonably comfortably in 16 Kbytes?
2) Can I buy that version from Mentec?
3) What is the newest release that is on-topic for this list? I.E, what
was current on March 19, 1989?
Eric
8:59 p.m.
And the SPD for RT-11 V5.7 claims that it requires 32
Kbytes for SB,
48 Kbytes for FB, and 76 Kbytes for memory mapped monitors (XM, XB, ZM,
ZB).
Yep...
This is annoying since my GT40 only has 16 Kbytes.
Which brings up
several questions:
<drool>... you have a GT40? I missed out on one years ago... I had
it in my office, but couldn't get the signatures to take it home, and
it ended up being lost in an office move... <sigh>
1) What is the most recent release for which SB (or
SJ?) will run
reasonably comfortably in 16 Kbytes?
I would suggest that you have to go back to V4.0 of RT to even still
have the VT11 support in the monitor...
2) Can I buy that version from Mentec?
I don't know how many releases they have in their library... but I
also don't know if they would consider selling it...
3) What is the newest release that is on-topic for
this list? I.E, what
was current on March 19, 1989?
I believe V5.5 was the release which was current at that time. We were
still working on V5.6, which wasn't released until 1992. It might have
been V5.4, though... Heck, after 15 years of releases, they all sort
of merge in my memory...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
10:21 p.m.
Megan wrote:
This is
annoying since my GT40 only has 16 Kbytes. Which brings up
several questions:
<drool>... you have a GT40? I missed out on one years
ago... I had
it in my office, but couldn't get the signatures to take it home, and
it ended up being lost in an office move... <sigh> 1) What is the
most recent release for which SB (or SJ?) will run
reasonably comfortably in 16 Kbytes?
I would suggest that you have to go back
to V4.0 of RT to even still
have the VT11 support in the monitor... 2) Can I buy
that version from Mentec?
I don't know how many releases they have in their
library... but I
also don't know if they would consider selling it... 3) What is the
newest release that is on-topic for this list? I.E, what
was current on March 19, 1989?
I believe V5.5 was the release which was current
at that time. We were
still working on V5.6, which wasn't released until 1992. It might have
been V5.4, though... Heck, after 15 years of releases, they all sort
of merge in my memory...
20 Mar
20 Mar
12:36 a.m.
What was a GT40?
A graphics terminal based on the small (5.5 inch tall) PDP-11/05
minicomputer, with a VR14 vector display (14-inch magnetically deflected
X-Y monitor), a keyboard, and a light pen.
The display list processor of the GT40 is a three-board set, referred to
in some of the documentation as a VT40. The same boards in a different
backplane were available for use on other Unibus systems as a VT11.
The display list processor has a boot PROM that makes the GT40 act as a
dumb terminal, and supports downloading of executables over the serial line
from the host in a special format. (Unfortunately the
actual boot PROM in
my GT40 doesn't match the listing in the manual; in fact
it's not even
*close*.)
I was asked recently to comment on a system
which originally used a VT05 and then a VT52. I actually kept a
working VT52. What was a VT05? Or at least what were the
differences between a VT05 and a VT52?
The VT05 was the first raster CRT terminal DEC made in-house. It is not as
tall as a VT52, but a little deeper (which is amazing as the VT52 is quite
deep). The styling was that early-1970s "futuristic" styling. If memory
serves, it has only 12 lines of display, and is fairly "dumb". By comparison,
the VT52 or the classic ADM-3 dumb terminal is genius-class.
Also, as far as I know, the VT11 support was still
present in V5.4G
of RT-11.
At least some of it.
Mentec has access to V5.3 of RT-11. Actually,
everyone who wants
to run V5.3 of RT-11 under a hobby license with the Supnik emulator
can download V5.3 from gatekeeper.
Unfortunately this license does not allow me to use the software on
my GT40. If I added VT11 simulation to Supnik's emulator, at least I
could run it on a simulated GT40. :-)
I'm hoping to be able to demonstrate the GT40 at the upcoming
Vintage Computer Festival. However, since I don't have an operating
system to run on it, I will only be able to load one game into core
and leave it running. I'd hoped to be able to set up a menu program
that would load other games from a disk, but I'm not going to go the
all the trouble of doing that without an operating system.
Cheers,
Eric
12:33 p.m.
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19 Mar
19 Mar
10:41 p.m.
Jerome Fine replies:
What was a GT40?
It was an 11/05 system with an integral VT11 display processor
and a second serial line all mounted in one of the 5.25" high
chassis. It had a typical pdp-11/05 front panel, but the
color of the silk screening was green and some other color...
The chassis had side rails that a VR14 vector graphics display
could slide into above the system chassis. The unit has a keyboard
and a light pen. The ROM has code to provide a very dumb
terminal... it was generally attached to a decsystem-10 which
could down-line load code into it for execution.
I was asked recently to comment on a system
which originally used a VT05 and then a VT52. I actually kept a
working VT52. What was a VT05? Or at least what were the
differences between a VT05 and a VT52?
The VT05 is the earliest of the 'glass tty' terminals that I
remember... I first saw one at a DECUS in Boston around 1973
or so. It was long and angular. I've never seen a programming
manual for one, so I don't know if it even supported escape
sequences...
Incidentally, get a VT103. The standard memory size is
256 KBytes
and if you re-wire the backplane, you can have all 4 MBytes.
As far as I know, the RT11SJ in V5.4G required about
4800 bytes
plus about 4100 bytes for the USR and something (about 500)
for the device driver. That would leave only about 6 KBytes for
the user job, probably not enough. Maybe the utilities are designed
to work without the USR being there all the time and RT11SJ might
work.
That's right... systems typically ran with USR set SWAP. Back
then we jokingly had a standard response to any problems which
came in... "SET USR NOSWAP"...
Also, as far as I know, the VT11 support was still
present in V5.4G
of RT-11.
VT11 support is still in the VTHDLR library file, but I think that
the GT ON/GT OFF commands were removed much earlier than that...
I don't know if EDIT lost its VT11 support... same thing for TECO.
Mentec has access to V5.3 of RT-11. Actually, everyone
who wants
to run V5.3 of RT-11 under a hobby license with the Supnik emulator
can download V5.3 from gatekeeper. Megan Gentry made V5.3
available (or was very instrumental in doing so - thanks Megan)
some time ago. Do you want the URL?
I have other releases prior to V5.3... I've been thinking of trying
to get them packaged up to be made available -- in my 'copious free
time' (tm)
P.S. Megan - have a good PDP-8 pickup and don't
strain
yourself. That is real heavy iron.
I know... two H960s and one 4' rack... with 4 pdp-8s and disks,
tapes, etc... and an 11/34 with LPS, VT11 and VR14...
Lots of *Iron*... I certainly won't be anemic for some time... :-)
but it still looks like I'll be going it alone (unless I hear from
my son)...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
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