16 Jul
2002
16 Jul
'02
6:22 p.m.
Anyone have any docs for this beastie? trying to get it up and running,
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a funky RJ-45 ish KB
connection :( also, what OS' are supported on this machine? biggest Hard
Drive, etc..... and where can I find an OS for this machine???
16 Jul
16 Jul
7 p.m.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Geoff Reed wrote:
Anyone have any docs for this beastie? trying to get
it up and running,
No, but it's like my 715, so I have 'some clue'
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a
funky RJ-45 ish KB
It's called HPIL I think .. HP Interface loop. You can find these on eBay
of from collectors that have excess stock :).
connection :( also, what OS' are supported on
this machine? biggest Hard
NetBSD, Linux, and HP-UX should all work.
Drive, etc..... and where can I find an OS for this
machine???
It uses narrorow scsi-2, so that shouldn't be an issue, except for booting
perhaps. I know some Sun systems have bugs that prevent booting off a
partition past the 1G or 2G mark on the drive, there may be a similar
thing here.
Memory is a bit funky if I remember correctly, not 'standard' SIMMS.
There's some more info on HP's PA-RISC systems over here:
http://parisc-linux.org/
-- Pat
7:57 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
need to know
what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a funky RJ-45 ish
KB
It's called HPIL I think .. HP Interface loop. You can find these on
eBay of from collectors that have excess stock :). 
17 Jul
17 Jul
1:43 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
At 12:55 AM 7/17/02 -0700, Eric wrote:
It might use HP-HIL, Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Loop.
<big snip>
Eric is correct. The keyboards use HP-HIL and not HP-IL. They're two completely
different things. I don't know how it got started but a lot of E-bay sellers list
HP_HIL devices and call them HP-IL. HP-HIL is used for operator input devices; keyboards,
mice, tablets, numeric keypads, etc. HP-IL is a two wire serial version of HP-IB and it
used for peripheral interfaces to things like cassette drives, some meters, O-scopes,
logic analyzers, printers, etc. It has never been used for any keyboards, mice or related
items to my knowledge.
You might try searching E-bay for "HP-IL" and find a keyboard and/or mouse.
They're quite common. Bear in mind that if it's a keyboard or similar device they
will be HP-HIL even if the seller claims it's HP-IL. As you noted, HP-HIL uses the
RJ-45 ish connector. Usually there will be two sockets close together so that you can
daisy chain other HP-HIL devices to it. The connectors and sockets are identified by one
or two dots or raised dimple so that's another way to identify them. The dots are used
to idetify which socket to plug additional devices into. Plug the connector with a single
dot into the socket with a single dot, ditto for items with two dots.
Joe
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a
funky RJ-45 ish
KB
It's called HPIL I think .. HP Interface loop. You can find these on
eBay of from collectors that have excess stock :).
3:57 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Eric Smith wrote:
It might use HP-HIL, Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Loop.
Arrrgh. That's what I *meant* to say.
-- Pat
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a
funky RJ-45 ish
KB
It's called HPIL I think .. HP Interface loop. You can find these on
eBay of from collectors that have excess stock :). 
12:18 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
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4:33 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
I wrote:
I've scanned the HP-IL specifications and the HP-IL chip manual, but I
don't have the kit documentation, which had the schematics for the
converter and various other useful information.
> It might use HP-HIL, Hewlett-Packard Human
Interface Loop.
Tony wrote:
Are you sure that's _loop_? HP-HIL is not
physically a loop. It's a
point-to-point serial interface.
It's my understanding that electrically it forms a loop, because the
last device loops the data back. I could be wrong -- it wouldn't be the
first time.
Amd there's an I/O card for the HP150 that adds an
8 bit parallel port
(normally used for a Centronics printe) and an HPIL port.
Forgot about that one. I'd like to get one for my 150.
the 1LB3,
pulse transformers, HP-IL connectors, passive components,
and documentation. I built an interface card for the Apple ][, which
almost
IIRC, it also contained a couple of microcontrollers that contained the
code to allow you to make the 82166 HPIL -> parallel converter. And
some development software (HP41 DevIL ROM, HP75 IOCMDS lexfile). I've
never seen this kit complete, but I do have what I believe to be the
documentation for it.
5:28 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
At 09:31 PM 7/17/02 -0700, Eric wrote:
I wrote:
I'm pretty sure that you're correct about the name but I don't understand
how they know what device to put the "loop" into since almost any HP-HIL device
could be the last one on the chain. For example, you might have only a keyboard, or you
could have a keyboard and then a mouse or you could have a keyboard, a graphics tablet and
then a mouse or maybe just a keyboard and a tablet. The possiblities are astronomical.
IIRC you have have up to 8 devices on the HIL chain.
Oh! And just to add to the confusion, the HP IPC has TWO HP-HIL ports. The IPC keyboard
doesn't have a second port for daisy chaining to other devices so you're supposed
to plug the (HP-HIL) mouse into the second port on the IPC. I've tried standard HP-HIL
keyboards on the IPC and they work fine. I've also used the second port for a mouse
with no problems but I've never tried daisy chaining a mouse off of HP-HIL keyboard
attached to an IPC. Hmm, it might be interesting to put a keyboard and a mouse into EACH
of the ports. (yes, I have IPCs to spare!)
BTW I have two different manuals for the HP-HIL mouse and one manual for the HP-HIL
keyboard and NONE of them tells what HP-HIL stands for!
Joe
> It might use HP-HIL, Hewlett-Packard Human
Interface Loop.
Tony wrote:
Are you sure that's _loop_? HP-HIL is not
physically a loop. It's a
point-to-point serial interface.
It's my understanding that electrically it forms a loop, because the
last device loops the data back. I could be wrong -- it wouldn't be the
first time.
5:36 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
I wrote (about HP-HIL):
> It's my understanding that electrically it
forms a loop, because the
> last device loops the data back. I could be wrong -- it wouldn't be
> the first time.
Joe wrote:
I'm pretty sure that you're correct about the
name but I don't
understand how they know what device to put the "loop" into since
almost any HP-HIL device could be the last one on the chain.
The last device can tell that there are no further devices chained to
it.
I should have said "logically" rather than "electrically"; I do NOT
think
there is electrical connectivity of the data line.
7:06 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
Hello!
HP-HIL stands for Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link,
as far as I know.
Regards,
Szabolcs Rumi
-
5:41 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
For those that don't know what a HP-HIL port looks like here's a picture that I
found on an E-bay auction. It's on the bottom card in the second picture. You can
clearly see word Keybd, the name HP-HIL and the two dots that I mentioned earlier. See
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2039310046>.
Joe
18 Jul
18 Jul
8:10 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
Joe wrote:
For those that don't know what a HP-HIL port looks
like here's a
picture that I found on an E-bay auction.
If anyone's interested, I could photograph the logic analyser in
the lab at HP (where I now work). It's got the RJ-45-like
plug, the dots on the cable, and a keyboard.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
8:11 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
Joe wrote:
For those that don't know what a HP-HIL port looks
like here's a
picture that I found on an E-bay auction.
If anyone's interested, I could photograph the logic analyser in
the lab at HP (where I now work). It's got the RJ-45-like
plug, the dots on the cable, and a keyboard.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
17 Jul
17 Jul
6:18 p.m.
New subject: Keyword 8000
I've been curious for a while about a couple of Keyword 8000 8" drives
and power supply I picked up at a swapfest. I just found an article over
in Germany about these drives. In checking the power supply, one of the
chips had a code date of 1987, so at least I have a time frame! If
anyone would like them for the usual 1.2 x shipping, let me know.
**********
Keyword offers Keypak: TV programs into universe in one
compatibly
COMPUTER WEEK No. 50 of 09.12.1988
AACHEN(pi) - Missing compatibility with text processing programs do
not stand to an exchange of documents in principle into ways. Now a
software package offers the key Fords Office Technologies Ltd. with
Keypak, which permits the transmission between PCS in Dec
environment, which work with different word processing systems. A
compelling condition for application is the office automation program
universe in one of Dec. If Keypak is integrated into the program, users
of
IBM PC, Macintosh, Dec Vaxmate or other computers, which is
connectable to a VAX computer, can exchange documents. The user
does not have to leave its used text processing program. Its document
is
set off in the usual format and converted then from the software into
the
format of the receiver. in detail the procedure looks in such a way:
The
documents are sent to the VAX computer and stored there in the
electronic mail box. At the same time it is signaled to the receiver
that a
message is arrived and ready to be collected. For the correct format
readable with the receiver, the software provides, in which the user
profiles are stored. Keypak converts IBM PC text 4, ms Word,
Macintosh Word, Multimate, Wang, Wordstar, Wordperfect, WPS plus,
Xerox 860, DCA and further programs. Also enterprises with pure text
processing systems can feed documents into the net. In addition the
software producer developed Keyword 8000. The product, which
consists of a CONTROLLER, a floppy disk drive and software, can read
and convert independently of diskette formats dedicated word processing
systems, since the software recognizes most text processing formats. In
the Federal Republic both products are sold by the Macbyte GmbH.
Information: Macbyte GmbH, steppe mountain avenue 5, 5100 Aachen,
telephone 02 41/87 00 55.
18 Jul
18 Jul
12:51 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
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1:22 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
At 01:42 AM 7/19/02 +0100, you wrote:
Some of the points I make below also apply to other
messages, but I'll
attempt to save bandwidth by putting them all together. I have found some
technical info on HP-HIL (actually in an HP-SUX manual...)
-tony
Hey, I *like* HPUX... I've been a user since '89.
Not too sophisticated, but very robust. For me, that counts a lot.
When I sysadmined (basic tasks) a few Solaris and Linux systems I found
that I had to spend much more time on those than on HPUX.
Note: I like them all.
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
2:42 p.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
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2:07 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).)
Tony Duell said:
I have always heard that acronym broken down as "Hewlett-Packard Human
Interface Loop", but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's right. Of
course, even if that is the correct translation of the acronym, that doesn't
mean the name has much relation to the interface's actual properties...
- Dan Wright
(dtwright(a)uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)
-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [-
``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.''
Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan
It might use
HP-HIL, Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Loop.
Are you sure that's _loop_? HP-HIL is not physically a loop. It's a
point-to-point serial interface.
16 Jul
16 Jul
11:24 p.m.
On 2002.07.16 at 23:36 Geoff Reed wrote:
Anyone have any docs for this beastie? trying to get
it up and running,
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a funky RJ-45 ish KB
connection :( also, what OS' are supported on this machine? biggest Hard
Drive, etc..... and where can I find an OS for this machine???
The HP 9000/710 is a very nice box indeed. With 64MB RAM and a 4GB disk
in it HPUX 10.20 runs like a charm. With 32MB or less maybe you should
try HPUX 9.x. It needs a HP-HIL keyboard and mouse, those are sometimes
offered on eBay. But you can also use a serial console, just don't ask
me how to switch to it on that model... ;)
Regards,
Szabolcs Rumi
-
17 Jul
17 Jul
12:29 a.m.
I have some RAM for this if you want it... Kingston KTH715/64s.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rumi Szabolcs" <rumi_ml(a)rtfm.hu>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).
On 2002.07.16 at 23:36 Geoff Reed wrote:
>Anyone have any docs for this beastie? trying to get it up and running,
>need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a funky RJ-45 ish KB
>connection :( also, what OS' are supported on this machine? biggest
Hard
Drive, etc.....
and where can I find an OS for this machine???
The HP 9000/710 is a very nice box indeed. With 64MB RAM and a 4GB disk
in it HPUX 10.20 runs like a charm. With 32MB or less maybe you should
try HPUX 9.x. It needs a HP-HIL keyboard and mouse, those are sometimes
offered on eBay. But you can also use a serial console, just don't ask
me how to switch to it on that model... ;)
Regards,
Szabolcs Rumi
-
12:41 a.m.
On 2002.07.17 at 08:27 Jim Kearney wrote:
I have some RAM for this if you want it... Kingston
KTH715/64s.
Just watch out with that, because although the 712/715 memory
sticks are really compatible with the 710 generally, but the
KTH 715/64 kit has two 32MB sticks AFAIK, and specs are saying
8x8MB is the maximum RAM for the 9000/710 so I'm not sure if
32MB modules would work there...
Regards,
Szabolcs Rumi
-
12:59 a.m.
At 02:40 PM 7/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
On 2002.07.17 at 08:27 Jim Kearney wrote:
I think that 710 memory is installed in quads, so it could
different from 715 memory. From the hardware compatibility guide:
RAM products:
Formal
Product
Number Description Type SPU Hardware Support Comments
A2201A 8 Mbyte ECC RAM (one)Model 710 e
A2202A 16 MB (o e) Models 710 e ,745 i
A2216A 8 Mbyte RAM pair (2,4MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
A2217A 16 Mbyte RAM pair (2,8MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
A2218A 32 Mbyte RAM pair (2,16MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
Note: I think that 710e stands for an upgraded 425s, so it seems that the
original 710 can accept 8 16MB sticks for up to 128MB RAM (though you
probably need to put the HD in an external enclosure to limit power
consumption if you max out the RAM like this). Also from
the hardware compatibility guide:
CPU RAM Designs:
SPU
Model RAM Slots RAM Design Speed Comments
710?[/50] 8,2 quads - - Must be used in quads
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
I have some RAM for this if you want it...
Kingston KTH715/64s.
Just watch out with that, because although the 712/715 memory
sticks are really compatible with the 710 generally, but the
KTH 715/64 kit has two 32MB sticks AFAIK, and specs are saying
8x8MB is the maximum RAM for the 9000/710 so I'm not sure if
32MB modules would work there...
Szabolcs Rumi
1:22 a.m.
I did some research, and you're right. The list of computer this RAM will
work in is:
HP 3000/9X8 ? 918RX / 928LX / 928RX/ 968LX/968RX/978LX/978RX/ 988LX/ 988RX
HP 9000 725/100, 715/50? 715/75?725/50? 725/75, 715/100?715/100CX?715/64?
715/80, 715/33, 745i(100MHz)?745i(50MHz)?747i(100MHz)?747i(50MHz)
Sorry for the confusion. I guess I'll be putting these up on eBay.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Murillo" <carlos_murillo(a)epm.net.co>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: HP9000 model 710 workstation(Apollo 700).
At 02:40 PM 7/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
On 2002.07.17 at 08:27 Jim Kearney wrote:
I think that 710 memory is installed in quads, so it could
different from 715 memory. From the hardware compatibility guide:
RAM products:
Formal
Product
Number Description Type SPU Hardware Support Comments
A2201A 8 Mbyte ECC RAM (one)Model 710 e
A2202A 16 MB (o e) Models 710 e ,745 i
A2216A 8 Mbyte RAM pair (2,4MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
A2217A 16 Mbyte RAM pair (2,8MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
A2218A 32 Mbyte RAM pair (2,16MB@)Models 705,710 Excluding Model 710 e .
Note: I think that 710e stands for an upgraded 425s, so it seems that the
original 710 can accept 8 16MB sticks for up to 128MB RAM (though you
probably need to put the HD in an external enclosure to limit power
consumption if you max out the RAM like this). Also from
the hardware compatibility guide:
CPU RAM Designs:
SPU
Model RAM Slots RAM Design Speed Comments
710?[/50] 8,2 quads - - Must be used in quads
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
I have some RAM for this if you want it...
Kingston KTH715/64s.
Just watch out with that, because although the 712/715 memory
sticks are really compatible with the 710 generally, but the
KTH 715/64 kit has two 32MB sticks AFAIK, and specs are saying
8x8MB is the maximum RAM for the 9000/710 so I'm not sure if
32MB modules would work there...
Szabolcs Rumi
12:41 a.m.
At 11:36 PM 7/16/02 -0700, you wrote:
Anyone have any docs for this beastie? trying to get
it up and running,
need to know what sort of KB it uses, it looks like a funky RJ-45 ish KB
connection :( also, what OS' are supported on this machine? biggest Hard
Drive, etc..... and where can I find an OS for this machine???
The HP 9000/710 is a first generation HPPA system featuring a 50MHz
PA-7000 processor. It can run HPUX 8.05 to 10.2 . It won't run
Linux when it is available (needs at least a PA-7100 processor).
You need an HP-HIL keyboard and mouse. The boot HD's size can be at
least 2GB with HPUX 10.2 AFAIK; the original configurations sold by
HP are shown below:
Boot
Model Description Type Rom OS support
A2208A ?Model 710 grey,diskless DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2209A ?Model 710 grey,420 Mbyte,flex. DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2210A ?Model 710 1024 color,diskless DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2211A ?Model 710 1024 color,420 Mbyte DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2212A ?Model 710 grey,420 Mbyte DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2213A ?Model 710 1280 color,diskless DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2214A ?Model 710 1280 color,420 Mbyte DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2215A ?Model 710 1280 color,840 Mbyte DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07 .10.01-10.20 .
A2222A ?Model 710 1280 color,420 Mbyte,DDS DeskTop 2.0 8.05-9.07
.10.01-10.20 .
Does it have a framebuffer? What are the model numbers on it? It might be
that 710 FB's still use the 60Hz refresh rate of earlier series 400 systems.
How much RAM does it have? Contact me off the list for info on
bootable install media.
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
12:14 p.m.
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8:08 p.m.
There's a guy in the UK that is selling an adaptor for PS/2 KB's/mice to
HP-HIL that is supposedly just wired through... is this
possible?!?!?! does anyone have the pinouts for the HP-HIL port?
18 Jul
18 Jul
2:03 a.m.
Geoff Reed said:
There's a guy in the UK that is selling an adaptor
for PS/2 KB's/mice to
HP-HIL that is supposedly just wired through... is this
possible?!?!?! does anyone have the pinouts for the HP-HIL port?
Well, no. What that box ACTUALLY is (probably) is a thing HP sold with some
of their workstations (715 & others) that plugged into an RJ45-ish port (but
with the tab on the top rather then the sides, like HP-HIL) that broke out
into 1) PS/2 KB and mouse, and 2) HP-HIL connector. As far as I know, you
can't use that box on any arbitrary HP with an HIL port and get a working
keyboard and mouse.
On the other hand, I have serveral of those boxes, so if you get it and it
works I'd be very interested to know that :)
- Dan Wright
(dtwright(a)uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)
-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [-
``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.''
Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan
2:43 p.m.
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2:56 p.m.
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, . . .
you could make one out of a PC, an HPIL interface card, and some software,
...
The HPIL card will cost you, but the PC is cheaper than buying any of its
compnent parts.
There's a
guy in the UK that is selling an adaptor for PS/2 KB's/mice to
HP-HIL that is supposedly just wired through... is this
possible?!?!?! does anyone have the pinouts for the HP-HIL port?
Totally
impossible [1]. The signals are not even close between the 2
interfaces.
[1] OK, somebody could make a keyboard that could work with either PS/2
or HP-HIL interfacee sgnals with just a plug change, but AFAIK HP never did.
19 Jul
19 Jul
2:06 a.m.
At 07:55 PM 7/18/02 -0700, Fred wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, . . .
you could make one out of a PC, an HPIL interface card, and some software,
Again it's the wrong thing. HP-IL is NOT the same as HP-HIL.
There's a guy in the UK that is selling an adaptor for PS/2 KB's/mice to
HP-HIL that is supposedly just wired through... is this
possible?!?!?! does anyone have the pinouts for the HP-HIL port?
Totally
impossible [1]. The signals are not even close between the 2
interfaces.
[1] OK, somebody could make a keyboard that could work with either PS/2
or HP-HIL interfacee sgnals with just a plug change, but AFAIK HP never did. ...
The HPIL card will cost you,
You're not kidding! One just sold on E-Overpay for something like $330!
but the PC is cheaper than buying any of its
compnent parts.
Joe
9:51 a.m.
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8509
days inactive
8511
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30 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
carlos_murillo＠epm.net.co -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
dtwright＠uiuc.edu -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
jim＠jkearney.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
pat＠purdueriots.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
rumi_ml＠rtfm.hu