At 09:05 26/08/2004, you wrote: 1: Like you, the IBM Model M - I'm also including modern imitations such as the Unicomp I'm using now, which sounds & feels just like the original. 2: is a Wyse kb, I forget the model number, just it was (as best I recall) quite pleasant to type on. 3: would have to be the TRS-80 Model 102, very nice keyboard considering the 1/2 A4 (Letter to you Americans) sized layout 4: BBC Model B - similar to the Tandy in feel. The layout's a bit screwy, but once you get used to it its very comfortable 5: Sinclair QL - Not a nice keyboard, but the one I grew up with. Hmm - I'm ambivalent about that sort of thing. I don't really mind where they are, so long as they're somewhere... Besides, modern PC keyboard are quite wide enough without adding a couple more columns of keys down the left-hand side... The Sharp MZ-80K had a similar keyboard to the PET-2001, but uniquely worse. Whilst the PET needed very careful keypressing, at least the keys didn't stick up or down if you didn't hit them exactly square on the top... The later CBM PET keyboards were quite good, but suffer badly if not used regularly. The 8000 series has to have one of the few keyboard which can be made to recover by repeatedly hammering a duff key.

At 04:05 AM 8/26/2004, you wrote: Best keyboard: cheap 101key (using a $5 Mitsumi at the moment) so when I spill coffee on it I don't make it worse by crying over it. Worst keyboard: DEC LK201 on VT220 terminals - no <ESC> key, misplaced angle bracket <> keys (both on same key), reduced size shift key so you always missed it and hit something else. A TECO nightmare. Plus you couldn't get a cup of coffee within 6 inches of it before it would crap out. Ed TECO forever

Ditto on the IBM "M" I've got a collection of them, including one with a built-in mousestick, like the Thinkpads, and one with no numeric keypad, so it fits nice on your lap. I also have the special one used for the 3270 emulation card, with all sorts of wierd key caps. I've always been fond of the original Apple 101-key ADB keyboard. Not clicky, but not silent either, about halfway between a mushy Dell keyboard and a type M. The keyboards for my Quadex Q500 are *really* nice, if not the most ergonomic things in the world. They are HUGE, all metal encased beasts with at least 150 keys, most of them for odd typesetting commands like adjusting kerning and tracking, and switching between common fontsizes. It has a regular numeric keypad, and a keypad with numbers that go from 0 to 20, 'cause you don't want to actually TYPE 2 then 0 :) Now if I can retrofit them to work on a PC... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Wickens" &lt;m.wickens(a)rhodium-consulting.com&gt; To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:05 AM Subject: Best keyboards you've used ever! number of or of set of Adds, head weird!).

At 04:05 AM 8/26/2004, you wrote: Function keys on the left? Made me look. Just found some IBM Personal Computer AT keyboards squirreled away in a closet like that. Don't want to drop one of those suckers on your toe. Found an aftermarket "Value Priced" XT keyboard in it's box too. with the price sticker - $159! Guess that was back when an XT cost $2000.

Am 26 Aug 2004 9:05 meinte Mark Wickens: Oh, that's simple, it's the SIEMNS low profile terminal keyboard, introducted with the series 975x termainls. While I kept the old terminal (*1,*2), I had no problem, to say good bye to the old, almost 2 inch high keyboard. The layout was basicly the same, just as flat as todays keyboard. Second comes of course the original PC-D keyboard, which was in fact a striped down version of the 9750 design with way less keys ... only some 125 or so. After that? No real lovable keyboard came along. Well, the 8160/9750 keayboard had over 140 or so keys (I have to count them). It was _rightsized_ roughly you had 5 areas: 20 localy programmable keys (each for 16 char) on the left, next the alpha section (as allways) followed by what could be called the cursor block ... But unlike today, it was made up of _24_ keys with separate functions. Next was a numeric block, mostly like todays PC-Keyboards (except, again it was 19 different keys). Above all a row of special functions, message handling keys, short message keys and function keys (again some 20 keys) was located. It is just a dream. I men, let's take just the simple left tab key, mising on todays PC - how easy table handling is, if such a _dedicated_ key is available. Not to mention all the oter cursor controls. The term full screen editor becomes a complete new meaning. Arround 1986 I added a little controller to attatch the Keyboard to a PC, but there where to many programms working with low level scan codes and such to make it worth. Maybe today, it could be possible to reach again the level of comfort we had 25 years ago. Yeah, did I mention that I'm talking late 70s *G* Gruss H. *1 - Hey, after all it was a real vector display, so an 'A' was made up from 5 straight lines, and not a cloud of glibberisch pixels. *2 - Well, and in fact, just because the new terminal was based on a micro processor instead of a TTL graveyard didn't make anything better. The 8160 slicer did in fact interpret the screen codes as a programm code and produced the desired effects, which resulted in some nice features, never seen again in other machines. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/

First on that list is a Symbolics Lisp Machine keyboard. I don't know their nomenclature, but it was the one in a rounded sort of case, physically reminiscent of... #2: Sun type-3. In good shape, of course. The Sun type-3 is notable in that when in good shape it's one of the best I've ever had the pleasure to use, but when in bad shape it's one of the worst. Old HP pocket calculators. (That style of keyboard would be horrible for typing on, but HP was smart enough to use other kinds of key when making keyboards for typing on. The calculator keyboards were great for what they were used for.) The TeleVideo 950 or 925 (the keyboards are almost identical). There was a time when I considered the Hazeltine 1500 keyboard to be top-of-the-line. Today, I cannot understand how I ever felt that way. My Korg C-3500. Soft touch, decent velocity sensing, full size. I rate this one better than the one I learned on, which was a real mechanical, because it's more uniform and reliable. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

And thusly Mark Wickens spake: My fav keyboards are the IBM Model "M" and the Commodore 64 keyboard. :) I am not sure what this says but when I first started using VICE quite a long time ago, after not touch a C64 for quite a few years, I was able type on a PC keyboard like it was a C64 one... My fingers just knew where certain keys were, like the double quotation mark (") being shift-2... It is very annoying that VICE now defaults to a PC kayboard map. :( Cheers, Bryan Pope

Original IBM peecee - nice and clacky Apple Lisa, same reason and therefore ditto early Macs Later model RM 380Z (black one) ACT Sirius 1/Victor 9000 Acorn ACW VT1xx (wish I could peecee-ify it!) DEC LK201 (lack of ESC worrieth me not, I'm an EDT-head :) Atari Mega ST keyboards CPT 8520 (currently dead) Mac Design II keyboards (early fat ones) Apple ][GS NeXTstation (another one I want to peecee-ify) My current peecee keyboard (compaq heavy edition from a few years ago) Apple ][ and ][e There's probably more but you get the idea :) Cheers w

In no real order : Best : Original IBM PC (the clicky, capacitive, matrix one) Tandy M100 (Amzingly good for such a small machine) Old HP calculators - -35, 67, etc (OK, not suitable for typing on, but they're a lot better than any other calculator keyboard I've used) ICL Termiprinter (The encoding scheme is ingenious, and it has a good feel) Worst : Science of Cambridge MK14 (If you thought the ZX81 was bad you should try this!) Sinclair ZX81 Sinclair Spectrum (The one that feels like dead flesh!) Sinclair QL (Can you tell I don't think Sinclair ever sold a useable keyboard?) Apple ][ (Feel is OK, but there's no up and down arrows, it can't produce lower case, etc). HP9831 (It's a Chicklet keyboard. A similar one was used on some HP9825s, but my 9825 has the later, full-travel keyboard) IBM PCjr (That IR link was ridiculous!) Original PET Most ingenious mechanism : HP9810 (differential transformers etched in the PCB traces, one of which is damped when you press a key). -tony

Hi, gang, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 26-Aug-04 at 09:05 Mark Wickens wrote: <snippety> Youbetcha! In sequence... --Original IBM 101-key PS/2 "clicker." Still use one, would never give it up, still think it's the best darn unit EVER, in terms of feel, response, and reliability. Then again, I learned to type on an old Underwood manual typewriter, which probably explains both my heavy touch (something that pulverizes lesser keyboards over time), and my liking for solid tactile feedback. --The Wyse keyboards, such as those that came with the old WysePC 286. The base was just about as solid as the IBM's, even if they didn't go 'click.' Those are really the only two I've been able to really 'like.' I tolerate others, simply because I'm given little choice in the matter (usually work computers, etc.) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"