24 Aug
2004
24 Aug
'04
2:39 a.m.
Hi,
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics? I've got a
few monitors here that are pretty bad - the yellowing I can put up with, but
the difference between the non-yellowed areas and the yellowed areas shows up
like a sore thumb.
Is this just one of those things that happens to plastics that's best
ignored?
Thanks.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Remington, shaves as close as a blade or we send the boys round.
24 Aug
24 Aug
2:53 a.m.
At 10:39 AM 8/24/2004, you wrote:
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or
lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics? I've got a
few monitors here that are pretty bad - the yellowing I can put up with, but
the difference between the non-yellowed areas and the yellowed areas shows up
like a sore thumb.
A Scotch Brite (green fiber abrasive type) pad and glass cleaner
(Windex) works for me.
Is this just one of those things that happens to
plastics that's best
ignored?
Yes, if it's some heirloom collectable type thing.
Ed
3:22 a.m.
On Tue, 2004-08-24 at 14:39, Philip Pemberton wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics?
Copious amounts of Jif (or whatever the hell it's called this week) has
worked well for me in the past. Some sort of scouring sponge (rather
than a simple cloth) is probably best as case plastics tend to be
somewhat uneven.
The other approach is of course to find an identical bit of hardware
with a better shell; I've done that before with some more common Acorn
items that I have, before passing the surplus machine that results on to
a good home.
cheers
Jules
3:38 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
Sent: 24 August 2004 16:23
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
Copious amounts of Jif (or whatever the hell it's called this
week) has worked well for me in the past. Some sort of
scouring sponge (rather than a simple cloth) is probably best
as case plastics tend to be somewhat uneven.
The other lads in the workshop here agree with that - jif/cif is the way
forward!
Cheers
a
7:21 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington
Sent: 24 August 2004 19:38
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
Could someone translate this into American? Over here
Jif is a brand of peanut butter.
Heh, is it? That'll confuse any holidaying Brits over there :D
Cif (as it's now called) is a cream cleanser for kitchens/bathrooms etc and
bits of me think it's ever-so slightly abrasive but I could be remembering
wrongly. I thought it had been renamed from Jif for the global market - do
you not have Cif over there?
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private
home computer collection
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum
www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for advert whinges!
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :(
11:14 a.m.
> Jif is a brand of peanut butter.
www.jif.com
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Adrian Graham wrote:
Heh, is it? That'll confuse any holidaying Brits
over there :D
Not half as badly as vacationing Americans who want a sandwich over there!
Cif (as it's now called) is a cream cleanser for
kitchens/bathrooms etc and
bits of me think it's ever-so slightly abrasive but I could be remembering
wrongly. I thought it had been renamed from Jif for the global market - do
you not have Cif over there?
Peanut butter is commonly suggested for cleaning chewing gum
out of kids' hair and dog fur.
I wonder how well it would work for cleaning plastic cases?
11:52 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
OK, this is what we mean by Jif (or Cif as it's now known):
http://www.unilever.co.uk/ourbrands/brand_cif.html
http://www.unilever.com/brands/hpc/cif.asp
And yes, it is abrasive. Fine for textured plastic, but don't use
it on glossy plastics like old telephones. It'll scratch 'em!
So, what's this "409" stuff that was mentioned earlier?
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
>Jif is a
brand of peanut butter.
www.jif.com 
12:11 p.m.
Rumor has it that John Honniball may have mentioned these words:
Fred Cisin wrote:
OK, this is what we mean by Jif (or Cif as it's now known):
http://www.unilever.co.uk/ourbrands/brand_cif.html
http://www.unilever.com/brands/hpc/cif.asp
And yes, it is abrasive. Fine for textured plastic, but don't use
it on glossy plastics like old telephones. It'll scratch 'em!
It would probably scratch bakelite as well, eh?
From your second link, this snippit may shed a bit'o'light on the name change:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Global presence
Increasingly the name Cif is replacing regional names like Jif, providing a
platform from which Cif can become a truly global brand. Cif is now sold in
45 countries, with Asia the fastest-growing region and India its biggest
market.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
If they're truly going global and looking to market here in the USA, "Jif"
the cleaner would certainly clash with "Jif" the peanut butter.
As I understand it, "peanut butter" is solely a North-American delicacy...
the closest thing I'd heart of in the UK would be Vegemite (or maybe
marmite), but IIRC that's made from brewers yeast, is it not?
Nutella would be similar as well, if you mixed peanut butter with chocolate
before canning... Hmmm... Time to see where I can order some; haven't had
any in *ages*...
>Jif is
a brand of peanut butter.
www.jif.com So, what's this "409" stuff that was
mentioned earlier?
It's a non-abrasive spray cleaner primarily designed for kitchens and
bathrooms as it's supposed to cut grease rather well.
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | JC: "Like those people in
Celeronville!"
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Me: "Don't you mean Silicon Valley???"
zmerch(a)30below.com | JC: "Yea, that's the place!"
| JC == Jeremy Christian
10:31 p.m.
On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 00:20, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote:
I suppose it'd clean your insides out whilst having nutritional value...
If they're truly going global and looking to
market here in the USA, "Jif"
the cleaner would certainly clash with "Jif" the peanut butter.
In terms of trademark?
Or simply a bad mix of flavors? 
6:28 p.m.
Roger Merchberger wrote:
[ ... deleted... ]
As I understand it, "peanut butter" is solely a North-American
delicacy... the closest thing I'd heart of in the UK would be Vegemite
(or maybe marmite), but IIRC that's made from brewers yeast, is it not?
We have peanut butter here in Blighty, but Vegemite is Oz. so it's throw
away the maybe, it's Marmite all the way!
Nutella would be similar as well, if you mixed peanut butter with
chocolate before canning... Hmmm... Time to see where I can order
some; haven't had any in *ages*...
The nuts in Nutella are hazelnuts, IIRC. Still, mustn't go of Topic
(possibly for older British readers only).
[ ...deleted... ]
7:36 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
As I understand it, "peanut butter" is
solely a North-American delicacy...
the closest thing I'd heart of in the UK would be Vegemite (or maybe
marmite), but IIRC that's made from brewers yeast, is it not?
My wife buys "whole earth" brand original crunchy peanut butter - with
no
added sugar , over here.
It must have some aspect of "healthy eating" therefore.
Being "crunchy" , it probably has some abrasive properties.
Firm is based in London.
Geoff.
7:45 p.m.
Geoffrey Thomas wrote:
My wife buys "whole earth" brand original crunchy peanut butter - with no
added sugar , over here.
It must have some aspect of "healthy eating" therefore.
Being "crunchy" , it probably has some abrasive properties.
Firm is based in London.
Do they even shell the peanuts, or just toss the whole thing in the grinder?
Geoff.
25 Aug
25 Aug
7:22 a.m.
> My wife buys "whole earth" brand
original crunchy peanut butter - with no
> . . . Being "crunchy" , it probably has some abrasive properties.
On
Wed, 25 Aug 2004, ben franchuk wrote:
Do they even shell the peanuts, or just toss the whole
thing in the grinder?
No shells.
Peanut butter is sold in two forms: "smooth/creamy/..." and "crunchy"
The crunchy is usually smooth peanut butter with some chunks of peanut
added back in.
It's not very abrasive.
Peanut shells (or better yet walnut shells) are a very useful abrasive,
and are ground up for use in sand-blasting like equipment.
9:20 a.m.
New subject: Semiconductor data books for sale in USA
Tried to post this a couple of days back-didn't see it- so here we go
again.
Contact Marv- NOT me!
DaveB, NZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <marv_e_ads(a)juno.com>
> Subject: [Test-Equipment] FS: Semi Data Books
>
>
> > *** Semiconductor Data Books -- Mostly like new.
> > Probably can't order much from these but,
> > they may be useful to service a 2nd Millennium relic
> > $8 per pound including media rate shipping ***
> >
> > Altera Data Book 1995
> >
> > AMD
> > AM29PL141 Fuse Programmable Controller 1987
> > Analog & Communication Products 1983
> > Array Processing & Digital Signal Processing 1986
> > Bipolar Microprocessor Logic & Interface 1985
> > Bus Interface Products 1988
> > E2Prom Am2864AE/BE 1988
> > LCA Applications Handbook 1988
> > Memory Products 1989/90
> > Microcontrollers 1988
> > MOS Microprocessors & Perhiperals 1987-1988
> > Pal Device Handbook 1988
> > PGA 3000 Series 1988
> > Programmable Logic 1987
> >
> > Anadigics
> > Communications IC Data Book 1998
> >
> > Analog Devices
> > ADSP-2100 User's Manual 1989
> > ADSP-2101/2102 User's Manual 1990
> > ADSP-2101/2102 Emulator Manual 1990
> > ADSP-21020 Users Manual 1991
> > ASSP-21065L User's Manual 1998
> > DSP Products Data Book 1989
> > New Products Update Summer 1999
> > Short Form Designer's Guide Winter 1999
> >
> > Anaren
> > RF & Microwave Components Catalog 2001
> >
> > Atmel
> > Nonvolatile Memory 1996
> >
> > AT&T
> > Analog Integrated Circuits 1989
> > Communications Devices 1988
> > DSP16 & DSP16A Digital Signal Processor 1989
> > DSP16-DS Digital Signal Processor Development System 1987
> > DSP32C Digital Signal Processor June 1988
> > DSP32C Digital Signal Processor Dec. 1988
> > DSP32C Application Software Library 1989
> > Microelectronic Products Selection Guide 1993
> >
> > Avantek
> > Microwave & Millimeter Wave Amplifiers 1989
> >
> > Burr-Brown
> > Handbook of Personal Computer Instrumentation 4th Edition
> >
> > California Micro Devices Corp.
> > Microcircuits Data Book 1989
> >
> > Catalyst Semiconductor Data Book 1996/97
> >
> > Dallas
> > DS5000 Soft Microcontroller 1990
> >
> > Datel
> > DC/DC Converters 1999
> >
> > Dynex Semiconductor
> > Power Semiconductors Product Guide 2000
> >
> > Ferranti
> > VMOS Data Book 1981
> >
> > Fujitsu
> > Bipolar Memory Products 1989
> > Memories 1986-87
> > Progammable Memory Products 1990
> > Wireless Communication Products 1996
> >
> > Gennum Data Book 1992
> >
> > Harris
> > BiCMOS FCT Interface Logic 1990
> > CMOS Digital Data Book 1986
> > Intelligent Power ICs 1992
> > Linear ICs for Commercial Applications 1990
> > Power MOSFET's, IGBT's, Rectifiers, etc. 1991
> >
> > Hitachi
> > 8 Bit Single-Chip Microcomputer Data Book 1985
> > DRAM Data Book 1991
> > Power Diodes 1999
> > Wireless Communications Data Book 1995
> >
> > Holtek
> > Remote Control Data Book 1995
> >
> > Honeywell
> > Signal Processing Technologies 1988
> >
> > Inmos Data Book 1987
> >
> > Integrated Circuit Systems Short Form Catalog 1999
> >
> > Integrated Device Technology
> > HIgh Performance Logic 1992
> > Specialized Memories 1990/91
> > SRAM 1991
> >
> > Intel
> > 386 SL Microprocessor Superset Data Book 1991
> > 386 SL 3 different booklets 1991
> > 486 SX Microprocessor Data Book 1992
> > CHMOS Components Handbook 1985
> > Flash Memory (2 Book set) 1997
> > iAPX 88 Book 1981
> > Introduction to the iAPX 286 booklet 1982
> > i960 CA Microprocessor Users Manual 1991
> > i960 CA SA/SB Reference Manual 1991
> > i960 KA/KA Programmer's Reference Manual 1991
> > Memory Components Handbook 1986
> > MCS-80/85 Family User's Manual 1986
> > Microcommunications Handbook 1988
> > PLDshell Plus/PLDasm User's Guide v3.1 1993
> > Programmable Logic Handbook 1988
> > Programmable Logic 1993
> >
> > Intersil
> > Product Selection Guide 2000
> >
> > M/A COM
> > E-Series RF Signal Processing Devices 1995
> > RF, Microwave & mm Wave, MMIC, Hybrid & Passive Comp. 1994
> > RF, Microwave & mm Wave, Coax Connectors, Adapters, Tools & Accy.
>
> > 1996
> > RF, Microwave & mm Wave, Single & Multi-Function Components &
> > Subassemblies 1996
> >
> > Microchip
> > Embedded Control Handbook V.1 1997
> > Third Party Guide 1996/1997
> >
> > Micron
> > DRAM 1997
> > Flash Memory 1998
> > Specialty DRAM 1993
> > SRAM 1997
> >
> > Mitsubishi
> > Audio 1982
> > GaAs FET's 1986
> > General Purpose IC's 1987
> > Memories 1989
> > Video 1982
> >
> > Monolithic Memories
> > LSI Databook 1985
> >
> > Mosel CMOS (Memories) Data Book 1990
> >
> > Motorola
> > 16/32-Bit Microcomputer System Components
> > BiCMOS Logic 1990
> > Direct Memory Access Controller (DMAC) MC68450 1986
> > Dual Asychronous Receiver/Transmitter (DUART) MC68681 1985
> > I960 Data Booklets (5 different) 1992-1993
> > IBM PC/XT/AT Floppy Disk Controller Family 1992
> > Industrial Control Unit MC14500B 1977
> > M68HC11 Programmer's Reference Manual 1985
> > MC68020 32-Bit Microprocessor User's Manual, 2nd edition 1985
> > Neuron Chip Distributed Communications & Control Processors 1992
> > Raster Memory Controller (RMC) MC68487 1986
> > SCSI Protocol Controller (SPC) 1992
> > X.25 Protocol Controller (XPC) MC68605 1986
> >
> > National
> > 48 Series Microprocessors Handbook 1980
> > Analog & Interface Products Databook w/CD ROM 1999
> > Application Specific Analog Products 1995
> > COP8 Development Tools 1995
> > EEPROM Databook 1985
> > Embedded System Processor Databook 1989
> > FACT Advanced CMOS logic Databook 1993
> > IDM2900 Family Microprocessor Databook 1980
> > Linear 1975
> > Low Voltage Databook 1992
> > Crossvolt Low Voltage Logic Databook 1994
> > Interface Databook 1988
> > Interface Data Transmission 1994
> > Mass Storage 1986
> > Microcontroller Databook 1987
> > Microcontrollers Databook 1988
> > Military/Aerospace Selection Guide 1992
> > NSC800 Microprocessor Family Databook 1985
> > NS16000 Databook 1993
> > Series 32000 Databook 1984
> > Voltage Regulator Handbook 1975
> >
> > NEC Electronics
> > 16 Bit V Series Microprocessors 1991
> > Application Specific Standard Products 1994
> > Display Driver IC's Data Sheet Pack 1990
> > DSP & Speech Processor Products 1992
> > Memory DRAM, DRAM modules, Video RAM's 1993
> > Memory SRAM, ASM, EEPROM 1993
> > Microcomputer Products Shortform Catalog 1991
> > Optical Semiconductor Devices Data Sheet Pack 1991
> > Single Chip Microcontroller Data Book 1990
> > VLSI MOS Memory RAM/ROM & Memrory Cards 1997
> >
> > NCR Data Book 1985
> >
> > Oki
> > Codec/Echo Canceller Family 1997
> > Memory 1990
> > Microcontroller 1990
> > Microprocessor 1989
> > Voice Synthesis LSI 1990
> >
> > Phillips
> > Ferrocube Soft Ferrites & Accessories 2000
> > PSD3XX Programmable Microprocessor Peripherals 1993
> > RF Power Transistors 1989
> >
> > Pioneer Semiconductor
> > High Performance CMOS/BiCMOS Data Book 1993
> >
> > Quality Semiconductor
> > FCT Logic & Clock Management 1995
> > Quick Switch Products 1995
> > Specialty Memory Products 1995
> > 3 Short form guides plus Dual Port Ram book 1995/6
> >
> > RCA
> > Advanced CMOS Logic IC's 54/74 AC & 54/74ACT Series 1987
> > High Speed CMOS Logic IC's 54/74 HC & 54/74HCT Series 1986
> > Power MOSFET's 1984
> >
> > RF Micro-Devices
> > Silicon Innovations 1998
> > 2000 Designer's Handbook w/CD ROM
> >
> > Rockwell
> > C19 Microcomputer Technical Reference Manual (Preliminary) 1990
> > C29/C39 Microcomputer Technical Reference Manual (Preliminary)
> 1993
> >
> > Samsung
> > Linear IC Data Book 1988
> >
> > Sharp
> > Memory Data Book 1993
> >
> > Siemens
> > 8-Bit Single-Chip Microcontroller Handbook 1989/90
> > Bipolar LSI Data Manual 1984
> > Memory Components 1994
> > Microcontrollers, Microprocessors, Peripherals & Memory 1988/89
> >
> > Signetics
> > FAST Data Manual 1987
> > Microcontroller Users' Guide 1989
> > Programmable Logic Data Manual 1987
> >
> > Silicon Systems
> > Storage Products Data Book 1994
> >
> > Simtek Data Book 1994
> >
> > Sipex
> > Data Conversion Products 1995
> > Hybrid Systems DataLinear 1988
> > Inteface Products 1994
> >
> > Sony
> > A/D, D/A Converters 1990
> > Discrete Semiconductor 1992
> > Memory 1993
> >
> > Stanford Microdevices
> > Wireless Products Catalog 1998
> >
> > Standard Microsystems Catalog 1986
> >
> > Startech (An Exar Company)
> > Catalog 1996
> > Shortform Catalog 1995
> >
> > Telcom Semiconductor Data Book 1997
> >
> > Telefunken
> > Diodes 1988
> > Integrated Circuits Radio & Audio 1986
> > Integrated Circuits for Telecommunication 1987
> > Microwave/UHF/VHF IC's & Tuner Modules 1988
> > Optocouplers 1987
> > Power Transistors 1989
> > Transistors for AF & Switching Applications 1985
> > Transistors for RF Applications 1985
> >
> > Texas Instruments
> > ALS/AS Logic Data Book 1986
> > Advanced Logic & Bus Interface Logic 1991
> > Data Transmission Circuits - Line Ciruits 1995/1996
> > Gallium Arsenide Products / Monolithic Microwave Integrated
> Circuits
> > 1994.
> > Linear Circuits 3V Family 1994
> > MSP58C80 Mixed Signal Processor User's Guide 1995
> > Master Selection Guide 1986
> > TMS370 Family Data Manual 1990
> > TMS1000 Series Preprogammed & Standard Devices 1982
> > TMS7000 Family Data Manual 1986
> > TMS320C1x User's Guide 1989
> > TMS320C2x User's Guide 1987
> > TMS320C3x User's Guide 1990
> > TMS320C5x User's Guide 1993
> > TMS320C64x & TMS320C55x Technical Lit. Kit 2000
> > TMS320C14/TMS320E14 User's Guide 1988
> > TMS320 Family Development Support 1989
> > TPIC6595 Power+ Logic 1992
> > TSP50C)x/1x Speech Synthesizer Family 1994
> > Progammable Logic Data Book 1988
> > Progammable Logic Qualification Data 1988
> > Gallium Arsenide Products Designer's Information 1992
> > Operational Amplifier Selection Guide 1993
> > Linear Products Surface Mount Availablity Guide 1994
> >
> > Thompson (Mostek)
> > Communications Products 1987
> > Memory Data Book 1987
> > Microprocessors & Peripherals 1987
> >
> > Toshiba
> > 1M DRAM, 1M VRAM 1991
> > Bipolar IC 1989
> > CMOS Logic TC74AC/ACT Series, TC74HC/HCT Series 1990
> > Diode Databook 1984
> > Microcomputer Peripheral Controller LSI's 1990
> > Mos Memory 1986
> > Speech Devices 1988
> > Static Ram 1992
> > TMP68HC05, TMP68HC11 1990
> >
> > TriQuint
> > Wireless Communication 1997
> >
> > TRW
> > GaAs Telecom Products 1998
> >
> > Vitelic
> > Memory Data Catalog 1990/91
> >
> > VTC
> > High Performance Integrated Circuits 1985
> >
> > Western Digital
> > Components Handbook 1983
> > Network Products Handbook 1983
> > Storage Management Products Handbook 1986
> >
> > Xecom Catalog 1990
> >
> > Zilog
> > Discrete Z8 Microcontrollers 1994
> > Infrared Remote Controllers 1993
> > Keyboard & Mouse/Pointing Devices 1993
> > Mass Storage Solutions 1993
> > Serial Communication Controllers 1993
> > High-Speed Serial Communication Controllers 1993
> >
> > Zytrex
> > ZX54/74ACHT & ZX54/74HCTLS Logic Familes 1985
> >
> >
> > All of the above, $8 per pound including media rate shipping
> >
> > Contact: Marv WC6W 310 649 3111 (reasonable hours Pacific
> Time
> > please)
> > or via: Marv_E_Ads(a)Juno.com
10:49 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Fred Cisin wrote:
Peanut shells (or better yet walnut shells) are a very
useful abrasive,
and are ground up for use in sand-blasting like equipment.
Also used in tumblers for rocks or empty ammunition carthridges.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3:09 p.m.
Peanut butter is sold in two forms:
"smooth/creamy/..." and "crunchy"
The crunchy is usually smooth peanut butter with some chunks of
peanut added back in.
That's only if you go for plastic peanut butter. The real stuff is
significantly coarser than "smooth" but does not have anything
approximating real crunch. I suppose you could add peanut pieces to
it, but I don't see the point, unless you like sharp corners doing
violence to your gums. ("How I envy the ro-o-o-ose you held in your
teeth, love / With the thorns underneath, love / Sticking into your
gums!")
It's not very abrasive.
True. Peanuts are rather low on hardness scales. :) For things
needing a bit of abrasion, slightly dampened baking soda can often do
good things. It's also comparatively nontoxic; even inhaled, it just
dissolves upon meeting mucous membranes.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
24 Aug
24 Aug
8:07 p.m.
["Jif" the cleaner vs "Jif" the
peanut butter]
As I understand it, "peanut butter" is
solely a North-American
delicacy... the closest thing I'd heart of in the UK would be
Vegemite (or maybe marmite), but IIRC that's made from brewers yeast,
is it not?
I spent the second half of 2002 in Norway (Troms?, in case anyone
cares). I found myself missing peanut butter.
I found there was a substance sold there as peanut butter, and it did
bear a detectible resemblance to peanut butter - in fact, it was more
or less identical to the homogenized peanut puree, doped to within an
inch of its life with emulsifiers and preservatives and such until it
requires a discerning tongue to detect the peanuts in its ancestry,
that is sold in the cheaper and lower-class stores in North America.
I did not, alas, find anything like real peanut butter (which to me
means "ground-up peanuts", preferably ground up at the time and place
of sale - while a bit of salt is an acceptable adulteration, I draw the
line at anything further). I was told that the Norwegian appetite for
peanut butter is almost entirely driven by the curiosity which TV
depictions of peanut butter induce in Norwegians who inflict North
American TV on themselves, and that after a few brief experiments,
practically everyone abandons it. And, to be honest, given the
substance that is presented to them under the name of peanut butter, I
really can't blame them.
To what extent this sorry state of affairs is representative of Europe
at large, I am not competent to say. (Indeed, from personal experience
I cannot speak to more than Troms?, though what I was told does seem to
indicate it's representative of Norway.)
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:33 p.m.
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
Need I say more?
Mark.
--
Mark Wickens
Rhodium Consulting Ltd
9:51 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Wickens" <m.wickens(a)rhodium-consulting.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
Need I say more?
Mark.
--
Mark Wickens
Rhodium Consulting Ltd
WD40 is also very good for putting a nice black sheen on your slate
mantelpiece/grate - if you've got one .
Geoff.
25 Aug
25 Aug
6:57 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Mark Wickens wrote:
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
Need I say more?
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about any of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
7:20 a.m.
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin may have mentioned these words:
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about any
of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
Viscosity is also a large factor on environment. WD40 works great on my
door hinges in my house, but I use heavy grease on automotive door hinges...
Just IMHO,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch(a)30below.com |
9:19 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin may have mentioned these
words:
hinges...
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about
any of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
Viscosity is also a large factor on environment. WD40 works great on my
door hinges in my house, but I use heavy grease on automotive door
Just IMHO,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Real mechanics read the manual that came with the machine they need to lube,
and they also make sure the lube is rated for the temperature their gear
will run in. Last time I checked viscosity is temperature dependent, so you
might need something "thicker" in hotter climates and something
"thinner" in
colder ones.
If you are not sure, then go ask somebody who might have a clue (well works
for me anyway).
For quite a few purposes around the house where something is old and stuck
and just needs to get moving again (not worth the time and effort for a
rebuild) WD40 works just fine.
9:15 a.m.
Real mechanics read the manual that came with the
machine they need to lube,
Correct.
and they also make sure the lube is rated for the
temperature their gear
will run in. Last time I checked viscosity is temperature dependent, so you
might need something "thicker" in hotter climates and something
"thinner" in
colder ones.
Normally the manuals will recomend lubricants (maybe with different
recomendations for warm or cool climates). If so, and they're available,
you need a seriously good reason not to use them, IMHO.
My Myford lathe came with a lubrication chart (some 30-odd oil points
IIRC) and recomended lubricants. Myford sell the oils in sensible-sized
cans (i.e. enough to last a couple of years), and they're not that
expensive, so of course I use them. I also use them on similar-sized
machinery and tools...
For quite a few purposes around the house where
something is old and stuck
and just needs to get moving again (not worth the time and effort for a
rebuild) WD40 works just fine.
WD40 is ideal for keeping rust of your garden spade, but I wouldn't use
it on precision machinery!
-tony
10:52 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
I'm pretty sure the suggestion was to use WD40 as a yellowing-case
cleaner. How did this suddenly turn into a discussion on lubrication?
Fred??
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin may have mentioned
these words:
hinges...
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about
any of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
Viscosity is also a large factor on environment. WD40 works great on my
door hinges in my house, but I use heavy grease on automotive door
Just IMHO,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Real mechanics read the manual that came with the machine they need to lube,
and they also make sure the lube is rated for the temperature their gear
will run in. Last time I checked viscosity is temperature dependent, so you
might need something "thicker" in hotter climates and something
"thinner" in
colder ones.
If you are not sure, then go ask somebody who might have a clue (well works
for me anyway).
For quite a few purposes around the house where something is old and stuck
and just needs to get moving again (not worth the time and effort for a
rebuild) WD40 works just fine.
11:27 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I'm pretty sure the suggestion was to use WD40 as
a yellowing-case
cleaner. How did this suddenly turn into a discussion on lubrication?
Fred??
Guilty.
I saw WD40 repeated dozens of times, followed by "Need I say more?"
and didn't realize that it was being recommended as a cleanser.
7:52 p.m.
It also works fantastically on squeeky Sidi Vertebrae motorcycle boots.
I'd just like to point out that I don't oil my motorbike chain with it ;)
Maybe someone could point out the disadvantages of using it as a cleaner,
because I clean/protect everything with it, however I don't *lubricate*
anything with it (except said motorcycle boots ;)
Mark.
On Thursday 26 August 2004 12:27 am, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
--
Mark Wickens
Rhodium Consulting Ltd
I'm pretty sure the suggestion was to use
WD40 as a yellowing-case
cleaner. How did this suddenly turn into a discussion on lubrication?
Fred??
Guilty.
I saw WD40 repeated dozens of times, followed by "Need I say more?"
and didn't realize that it was being recommended as a cleanser.
26 Aug
26 Aug
11:15 a.m.
Maybe someone could point out the disadvantages of
using it as a cleaner,
because I clean/protect everything with it, however I don't *lubricate*
Well, it's hydrocarbon-based, so it may attack some plastics and more
likely rubber [1]. Also, it will probably leave some deposit (thw waxy
part of the WD40) on the surface.
It depends what you want to clean with it. It's probably OK on most
computer cases, etc, but I wouldn't use it on my camera lens or the heads
of my RK05 :-)
[1] I once had to soak a beraring (the carriage bearing from a Sanders
700 printer (yes, it's on-topic)) in oil. This is a tubular part with a
broze bush at each end. Anyway, I tried putting a plastic bag over one
end, securing it with a rubber band. Then I filled the bearing with oil.
Enough oil got on the outside that about 30 seconds later the rubber
benad disintegrated, the bag came off, and the oil went all over the
bench. I tried a couple more times with the same result...
-tony
25 Aug
25 Aug
11:57 a.m.
Rumor has it that Teo Zenios may have mentioned these words:
Well, I wasn't advocating using WD-40 in the crankcase... :-O
I have yet to see a lubrication guide for indoor-use door hinges...
Viscosity is
also a large factor on environment. WD40 works great on my
door hinges in my house, but I use heavy grease on automotive door
hinges...
Just IMHO,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Real mechanics read the manual that came with the machine they need to lube,
and they also make sure the lube is rated for the temperature their gear
will run in. Last time I checked viscosity is temperature dependent, so you
might need something "thicker" in hotter climates and something
"thinner" in
colder ones. If you are not sure, then go ask somebody who might
have a clue (well works
for me anyway).
...and my car dealership uses WD-40 on automotive hinges (which especially
up in the cold, salty north doesn't last very long at all). They should be
the ones with the clue, should they not? ;-P
For quite a few purposes around the house where
something is old and stuck
and just needs to get moving again (not worth the time and effort for a
rebuild) WD40 works just fine.
Which is pretty much what I was getting at...
(Oh, and I'm not a real mechanic, either. I don't even play one on TV! I'm
a geek.)
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch(a)30below.com |
12:52 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:57:51 -0400
Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> wrote:
Rumor has it that Teo Zenios may have mentioned these
words:
Well, I wasn't advocating using WD-40 in the crankcase... :-O
I have yet to see a lubrication guide for indoor-use door hinges...
It's my understanding, and I'm not a lubricant expert, that WD40 is a
solvent, not a lubricant. And that it essentially activates dried or
hardened lubricant. If it's over-applied it washes out the lubricant and
has negative impact, rather than a benefit.
But that's me, contributing to the topic drift.
My understanding does reinforce the idea that WD40 is a solvent, though,
since the thread was originally about using it to clean.
Viscosity
is also a large factor on environment. WD40 works great
on my door hinges in my house, but I use heavy grease on
automotive door
hinges...
Just IMHO,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Real mechanics read the manual that came with the machine they need
to lube, and they also make sure the lube is rated for the
temperature their gear will run in. Last time I checked viscosity is
temperature dependent, so you might need something "thicker" in
hotter climates and something "thinner" in colder ones. If you are not sure, then go ask somebody who
might have a clue (well
works for me anyway).
...and my car dealership uses WD-40 on automotive hinges (which
especially up in the cold, salty north doesn't last very long at all).
They should be the ones with the clue, should they not? ;-P
For quite a few
purposes around the house where something is old and
stuck and just needs to get moving again (not worth the time and
effort for a rebuild) WD40 works just fine.
Which is pretty much what I was getting at...
(Oh, and I'm not a real mechanic, either. I don't even play one on TV!
I'm a geek.)
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch(a)30below.com |
6:07 p.m.
...and my car dealership uses WD-40 on automotive
hinges (which especially
up in the cold, salty north doesn't last very long at all). They should be
the ones with the clue, should they not? ;-P
Having observed some of the mechanics in car repair garages in the UK, I
would consider them to be totally lacking in clue!
-tony
26 Aug
26 Aug
6:26 a.m.
> ...and my car dealership uses WD-40 on automotive
hinges (which especially
> up in the cold, salty north doesn't last very long at all). They should be
> the ones with the clue, should they not? ;-P
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tony Duell
wrote:
Having observed some of the mechanics in car repair
garages in the UK, I
would consider them to be totally lacking in clue!
When I erroneously diverted this thread to lubrication,
please note that I said "REAL mechanics".
I did NOT say "PROFESSIONAL mechanics".
Holding a job, such as at a dealership,
does not, in and of itself quarantee competence.
I was once a professional mechanic
(and wrote the book on Honda cars (ISBN:0912528257))
I aspired towards becoming a REAL mechanic.
"A REAL programmer can write a FORTRAN program in any language"
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
25 Aug
25 Aug
12:28 p.m.
In message <5.1.0.14.2.20040825151828.04c51bf8(a)mail.30below.com>om>, Roger Merchbe
rger writes:
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about any
of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
Is there a good rule of thumb (for those cases where one
doesn't have an appropriate manual) for what to use? For
example, could one say that for meshing gears one wants
a heavier grease, but for metal parts that rub (e.g. bushing)
one wants a thinner oil?
Brian L. Stuart
6:11 p.m.
rger writes:
Very rough rule : The fast the sliding between 2 parts, the thinner the
lubricant you use (and note that gears therefore tend to require a
thicker lubricant than you'd expect).
One exception is that most mechanical clocks and watches should have _no_
lubricant on the pinions and wheels (gears) at all. The pivots
(bearings) need oil, of course.
-tony
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about
any of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
Is there a good rule of thumb (for those cases where one
doesn't have an appropriate manual) for what to use? For
example, could one say that for meshing gears one wants
a heavier grease, but for metal parts that rub (e.g. bushing)
one wants a thinner oil?
8:40 a.m.
At 02:57 PM 8/25/2004, you wrote:
Gun people learn M1's, M14's and SLR's need grease and M16's need oil.
Ed
WD40 WD40 WD40
WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40 WD40
Need I say more?
REAL mechanics may or may not know anything about any of the
other characteristics of lubricants, but they do, at least,
know that there that there are many different viscousities
of lubricants, and that you need to use one of appropriate
"thickness".
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
9:06 a.m.
It's a drag to repair damage done by amateurs,
putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
We call it Wanton Destruction 40 round here for a very good reason. It's
a mix of all sorts of viscosities of lubricant, including some waxy
stuff. The problem is that the thinner oils evapourate first leaving the
wax to gum things solid. You then have to do a complete strip-down and
clean... I've seen the result of spaying it on the shutter mechanism of a
camera -- one day I'll take it all apart and get it going again. That's
what it needs....
I must keep a couple of dozen lubricants from watch oil up to about half
a dozen greases (and grease and oil for plastics) here...
-tony
9:35 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
It's still very good on slate :>)
Geoff.
It's a
drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
We call it Wanton Destruction 40 round here for a very good reason. It's
a mix of all sorts of viscosities of lubricant, including some waxy
stuff. The problem is that the thinner oils evapourate first leaving the
wax to gum things solid. You then have to do a complete strip-down and
clean... I've seen the result of spaying it on the shutter mechanism of a
camera -- one day I'll take it all apart and get it going again. That's
what it needs....
I must keep a couple of dozen lubricants from watch oil up to about half
a dozen greases (and grease and oil for plastics) here...
-tony
10:04 a.m.
On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 21:06, Tony Duell wrote:
Doesn't the 'WD' bit stand for 'water displacement'? i.e. it's
not
designed to be a lubricant at all (and hardly surprising there's some
waxy junk in there)
I have a feeling the '40' bit is meaningless and was just chosen because
it rolled off the tongue nicely...
cheers,
Jules
It's a
drag to repair damage done by amateurs, putting
WD40 on things that actually needed a heavy grease.
We call it Wanton Destruction 40 round here for a very good reason. It's
a mix of all sorts of viscosities of lubricant, including some waxy
stuff. The problem is that the thinner oils evapourate first leaving the
wax to gum things solid.
10:11 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
Doesn't the 'WD' bit stand for 'water
displacement'?
yes
i.e. it's not
designed to be a lubricant at all (and hardly surprising there's some
waxy junk in there)
I have a feeling the '40' bit is meaningless and was just chosen because
it rolled off the tongue nicely...
as a rule of thumb:
40 would mean that there have been 39 prior failures. They
number starting at 1, not at zero. (cardinal v ordinal?)
11:55 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: 25 August 2004 23:11
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
as a rule of thumb:
40 would mean that there have been 39 prior failures. They
number starting at 1, not at zero. (cardinal v ordinal?)
*nods*
I understood it as they got water successfully displaced on the 40th try so
that's what they called the product.
Cheers
w
10:39 a.m.
Doesn't the 'WD' bit stand for 'water
displacement'? i.e. it's not
Either that or 'Water Displacer'.
designed to be a lubricant at all (and hardly
surprising there's some
waxy junk in there)
It's _supposed_ to leave a waxy flim behind, so as to keep the water off...
It's great if used for that (to keep the HT side of your car's ignition
system dry, to keep rust off the garden tools, off the steel rods you
keep in stock, and so on). But people seem to think that because it's
oil-based and because it's thin when it comes out the can, it must be a
suitable lubricant for fine machinery. That is what I object to it being
used for (mainly because said machine ends up on my bench a few weeks
later and needs a complete strip-down and rebuild).
I have a feeling the '40' bit is meaningless and was just chosen because
it rolled off the tongue nicely...
The norammly-quoted legend is that it was the 40th formula tried...
-tony
26 Aug
26 Aug
5:26 p.m.
At 03:07 AM 8/25/2004, der Mouse wrote:
I did not, alas, find anything like real peanut butter
(which to me
means "ground-up peanuts", preferably ground up at the time and place
of sale - while a bit of salt is an acceptable adulteration, I draw the
line at anything further).
They suck out the peanut oil to sell it at a higher price
than the hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed or canola oil
they substitute in order to keep it solid at room temperature.
Real peanut butter separates on its own, requiring you
to stir it before consumption when you return from the store.
So it's also about laziness.
- John
27 Aug
27 Aug
12:12 a.m.
>> At 03:07 AM 8/25/2004, der Mouse wrote:
>> >I did not, alas, find anything like real peanut butter
>> (which to me
>> >means "ground-up peanuts", preferably ground up at the
>> time and place
>> >of sale - while a bit of salt is an acceptable
>> adulteration, I draw the
>> >line at anything further).
>>
>> They suck out the peanut oil to sell it at a higher price
>> than the hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed or canola oil
>> they substitute in order to keep it solid at room temperature.
>>
>> Real peanut butter separates on its own, requiring you to
>> stir it before consumption when you return from the store.
>> So it's also about laziness.
>>
Go to a decent Harvest Festival [there are many on the East coast US]!
While peanut butter is much more common at the southern ones, it can be
found further north. A completely different taste, but as pointed out, it
seperates almost immediately and does not "look good".
5:08 a.m.
Real peanut butter separates on its own, requiring you
to stir it
before consumption when you return from the store.
Only if you insist on keeping it at room temperature. I keep mine in
the fridge, and never need to stir it.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6:46 a.m.
On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:08 AM, der Mouse wrote:
Doesn't it get too thick to spread that way?
Real peanut
butter separates on its own, requiring you to stir it
before consumption when you return from the store.
Only if you insist on keeping it at room temperature. I keep mine in
the fridge, and never need to stir it.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6:59 a.m.
Only if you
insist on keeping [peanut butter] at room temperature.
I keep mine in the fridge, and never need to stir it.
Doesn't it get too thick
to spread that way?
24 Aug
24 Aug
10:29 p.m.
On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 00:11, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Global presence
Increasingly the name Cif is replacing regional names like Jif, providing a
platform from which Cif can become a truly global brand. Cif is now sold in
45 countries, with Asia the fastest-growing region and India its biggest
market.
Grr! I hate crap like that. I don't give a toss if it's a global brand
or not; if people are used to a local name then leave well alone!
What they presumably mean is "we're now able to make our product in some
3rd World sweatshop and ship it *anywhere*"
Same happened with Marathon and Opal Fruits :-(
As I understand it, "peanut butter" is
solely a North-American delicacy...
Well we get it over here, but it's bloody disgusting (or at least I
don't like the stuff :-)
cheers,
Jules
25 Aug
25 Aug
4:24 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
Well we get it over here, but it's bloody
disgusting (or at least I
don't like the stuff :-)
Hint: it goes most terrifically with jam.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
24 Aug
24 Aug
10:07 p.m.
At 07:52 PM 8/24/2004, you wrote:
OK, this is what we mean by Jif (or Cif as it's now
known):
http://www.unilever.co.uk/ourbrands/brand_cif.html
http://www.unilever.com/brands/hpc/cif.asp
Says it's good for mouuses too, bathroom mouuses anyway.
Didn't know you all you used computers in the can over there.
No mention of carthridges though.
Ed
South Carolina
12:22 p.m.
Cif (as it's now called) is a cream cleanser for
kitchens/bathrooms etc
and
bits of me think it's ever-so slightly abrasive but I could be remembering
wrongly. I thought it had been renamed from Jif for the global market - do
you not have Cif over there?
No, I've never heard of Cif. We call it Soft Scrub. I have used that
to good effect on plastic cases with flat finishes. I always used the plain
version, but it's also available with bleach -- perhaps that would work
better.
I have used peanut butter to remove sticky label residue, but that was
before I discovered De-Solv-It, the orange oil based product.
Now, which is the boot and which is the bonnet?
Paul Pennington
Augusta, Georgia
25 Aug
25 Aug
10:02 a.m.
In message <000001c489f0$8d539d00$2801010a(a)Beovax.Local>
"Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
Dare I ask if anyone knows if Jif/Cif will remove tobacco smoke (nicotine)
residue from plastics as well? IPA-170 seems to do some good, but doesn't
remove all of it (there's plenty left to make the plastic stink when it gets
warm). This is on a TV, BTW, so "getting warm" is pretty much all it does
besides displaying a picture and emitting sound...
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
Sent: 24 August 2004 16:23
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
Copious amounts of Jif (or whatever the hell it's called this
week) has worked well for me in the past. Some sort of
scouring sponge (rather than a simple cloth) is probably best
as case plastics tend to be somewhat uneven.
The other lads in the workshop here agree with that - jif/cif is the way
forward!
24 Aug
24 Aug
4:32 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 2004-08-24 at 14:39, Philip Pemberton wrote:
Be careful, because what you'll actually be doing is removing the texture
of the plastic, which may well make it look as ugly or uglier than before.
Most plastic computer enclosures have some sort of texture. I guess it's
an asthetic thing, since most prototypes I've got have smooth plastic
enclosures.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Hi,
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics?
Copious amounts of Jif (or whatever the hell it's called this week) has
worked well for me in the past. Some sort of scouring sponge (rather
than a simple cloth) is probably best as case plastics tend to be
somewhat uneven.
5:42 a.m.
I have had little luck in "really" cleaning up a yellowed plastic item. Most
of the good suggestions and warnings have been posted.
If I really want the item to look nice but am not concerned with
authenticity, I have found that the new "molecular bonding" paints do a nice
job (once you have practiced with applying them to textured material).
[Off the record...And I WILL deny this...My Mother-In-Law is really into the
"arts and crafts", her painting skills far exceed mine, so I "let" her
do
this, and the results are almost always quite good!]
9:13 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 09:32:40AM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Most plastic computer enclosures have some sort of
texture. I guess it's
an asthetic thing, since most prototypes I've got have smooth plastic
enclosures.
Textured finishes don't show off fingerprints.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Aug-2004 21:10 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -84.9 F (-65.0 C) Windchill -123.6 F (-86.5 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 10 kts Grid 058 Barometer 675.5 mb (10796. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
1 Sep
1 Sep
12:14 p.m.
Smooth plastic on early prototypes indicates 'soft mould' plastic,
essentially an
early prototype process for plastic parts, prior to committing to an
expensive
mould that is very difficult to alter for last-minute changes.
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 2004-08-24 at 14:39, Philip Pemberton
wrote:
Be careful, because what you'll actually be doing is removing the texture
of the plastic, which may well make it look as ugly or uglier than before.
Most plastic computer enclosures have some sort of texture. I guess it's
an asthetic thing, since most prototypes I've got have smooth plastic
enclosures.
Hi,
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics?
Copious amounts of Jif (or whatever the hell it's called this week) has
worked well for me in the past. Some sort of scouring sponge (rather
than a simple cloth) is probably best as case plastics tend to be
somewhat uneven.
3 Sep
3 Sep
3:50 a.m.
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Bob Shannon wrote:
Smooth plastic on early prototypes indicates 'soft
mould' plastic,
essentially an early prototype process for plastic parts, prior to
committing to an expensive mould that is very difficult to alter for
last-minute changes.
So is the texturing on the final mold there for texturing or as a
by-product of the molding process?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
4:13 a.m.
>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage
Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> writes:
Vintage> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Bob Shannon wrote:
> Smooth plastic on early prototypes indicates
'soft mould' plastic,
> essentially an early prototype process for plastic parts, prior to
> committing to an expensive mould that is very difficult to alter
> for last-minute changes.
Vintage> So is the texturing on the final mold there for texturing or
Vintage> as a by-product of the molding process?
For texturing. The mold process is pretty precise -- if the designers
wanted smooth plastic, you would have seen smooth plastic. It's not
like sand-casting of cast iron...
paul
4:22 a.m.
>>
>> So is the texturing on the final mold there for texturing
>> or as a by-product of the molding process?
>>
Usually for the following reasons: Texturing looks better (e.g. does not
show smudges), but costs more. The benefit is word the cost for final builds
but not for prototypes or special runs.
24 Aug
24 Aug
4:27 a.m.
--- Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Is this just one of those things that happens to
plastics that's best
ignored?
Yes, and remember, ugly finishes turn magically into
"patina" at some point in time, at least according to
the Antique Road Show folks. Then rich people, for
some reason, are unable to restrain themselves from
paying huge prices for it.(these are the same rich
people who return brand new furniture because a
quarter square inch of the finish is slightly
blemished, go figure)
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5:52 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <gkicomputers(a)yahoo.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
--- Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Is this just one of those things that happens to
The problem is new furniture has to look 100% new, while something 200+
years old has to look vintage (some signs of normal ageing). While some rich
person would love to have a piece of furniture that Napoleon might have
scuffed with his boot (a good story helps) they don't want a new table they
spent tons of money on to get dinged by the movers (no interesting story
there).
When car restoration started getting popular some company came out with
paint that cracks when it dries so that old rusted heaps could be
refurbished and still have the cracked paint the rest of the machines of
that vintage had. If I pay $300,000 for a new Ferrari (yea I wish I had that
kind of cash) it better not have a chip anywhere or its going back.
"Patina" I think is a term also used for older coins, the oxide that forms
on a silver or copper coin actually preserves it from further damage,
cleaning it would destroy detail and it will oxidize again anyway.
plastics that's best
ignored?
Yes, and remember, ugly finishes turn magically into
"patina" at some point in time, at least according to
the Antique Road Show folks. Then rich people, for
some reason, are unable to restrain themselves from
paying huge prices for it.(these are the same rich
people who return brand new furniture because a
quarter square inch of the finish is slightly
blemished, go figure)
8:19 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz(a)neo.rr.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
"Patina" I think is a term also used for
older coins, the oxide that forms
on a silver or copper coin actually preserves it from further damage,
cleaning it would destroy detail and it will oxidize again anyway.
Also used for describing the weathered finish on statues - some were
scrubbed clean by the victorians in British museums with results that are
far from making modern art historians happy, for the same reason as for
coins.
Geoff.
10:19 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
The problem is new furniture has to look 100% new,
while something 200+
years old has to look vintage (some signs of normal ageing). While some rich
person would love to have a piece of furniture that Napoleon might have
scuffed with his boot (a good story helps) they don't want a new table they
spent tons of money on to get dinged by the movers (no interesting story
there).
So,...
the damage that you do reduces the value, UNTIL you become famous.
10:57 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
I'll go around kicking dents in stuff you own for $5 per dent, but there's
no guarantees I'll ever be famous :)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
The problem is new furniture has to look 100%
new, while something 200+
years old has to look vintage (some signs of normal ageing). While some rich
person would love to have a piece of furniture that Napoleon might have
scuffed with his boot (a good story helps) they don't want a new table they
spent tons of money on to get dinged by the movers (no interesting story
there).
So,...
the damage that you do reduces the value, UNTIL you become famous.
1:40 p.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, David V. Corbin wrote:
Sellam Wrote:
I'm partial to being controversial by nature. Normal people bore me.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
>>
>> I'll go around kicking dents in stuff you own for $5 per
>> dent, but there's no guarantees I'll ever be famous :)
>>
Guess you will have to settle for being infamous....
10:58 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up yellowed/grubby plastic?
I'll go around kicking dents in stuff you own for $5 per dent, but there's
no guarantees I'll ever be famous :)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
I can see people lining up with landmines and a crisp $5 in their hands...
just kidding.
Anything a person used to become famous is usually what becomes collectable.
An example would be the weapon Oswald supposedly killed JFK with in Texas,
or the guitar a musician used to record his greatest song. If you ever
became world famous for your computing collection then any part of that
collection would be worth a little more IF it can be traced to you by serial
number etc. In the coin world quite a bit of coins are known for the
collectors that used to own the rarities. So Sellam if you end up famous I
don't think the coffee table you kick over when you are pissed would be
worth anymore then $5 at a garage sale.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
> > The problem is new furniture has to look 100% new, while something
200+
> > years old has to look vintage (some signs of
normal ageing). While
some rich
> > person would love to have a piece of
furniture that Napoleon might
have
> > scuffed with his boot (a good story helps)
they don't want a new table
they
> > spent tons of money on to get dinged by the
movers (no interesting
story
there).
So,...
the damage that you do reduces the value, UNTIL you become famous. 
6:01 a.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone happen to know of a trick to remove (or lessen the effect of)
the yellowing that tends to happen to lighter-coloured plastics? I've got a
few monitors here that are pretty bad - the yellowing I can put up with, but
the difference between the non-yellowed areas and the yellowed areas shows up
like a sore thumb.
I normally just use 409 and paper towels. Takes several applications:
spray, let it soak for a while, wipe off, repeat.
Remove the case if possible, to keep from spraying the inner mechanism, and
to make it easier to get into the joins.
Doesn't completely eliminate it, but greatly reduces it.
Is this just one of those things that happens to
plastics that's best
ignored?
Normal aging, but it is MUCH worse in a smoking envoirnment.
Thanks.
6:01 a.m.
It was written..
I normally just use 409 and paper towels. Takes
several applications:
spray, let it soak for a while, wipe off, repeat.
As I understand it, the yellowing is a reaction to light. It is the plastic
itself turning color, so there is no way to "clean" it off. But as has been
said, the yellowing is much worse in smoking environments, and some of the
smoke can be taken off.
I also have used 409 with fair results. 409 is what I usually use on
cabinets and enclosures. It wont get rid of the yellow as that's now part of
the plastic, but it does help a small amount.
However, a while back my wife came home with these "Magic cleaning blocks".
Basically a harder than usual sponge with some cleaning chemicals ingrained
in it. I looked at her with more than a little disbelief when she suggested
I use it on my "old computer stuff". Then someone on the list posted about
good results with them, and I tried them. They are quite good for cleaning
up old computers. They do a good job of cleaning the textured plastic
without removing it or "sanding" it. I think Sam's has them for a decent
price in bulk. I'd recommend them for sure.
I have yet to try one on a yellowed plastic panel, but soon I will :)
Regards,
Jay West
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