19 Dec
2000
19 Dec
'00
8:18 p.m.
On December 19, Ernest wrote:
I have a very low opinion of bid snipers. They're
like the proverbial "bad
apples" that spoil it for everyone. I believe that most new bidders on ebay
go into it with honest intentions but they (like me) learn quickly that a
last second bid sniper will likely ruin the joy for them. Bid sniping is a
...
I think you're missing the point...the notion of "it's not whether
you win or lose, it's how you play the game" is something that parents
say to their children to stop them from crying when they lose. It has
nothing to do with eBay.
For buyers, eBay is a venue for getting things that they want. For
sellers, it's a venue for getting rid of things they don't want. It's
not there for "enjoyment" or "fun" or anything of the sort. If
there's something on eBay that you want, the effort (and money) that
you expend to get it is determined by how badly you want the item.
It's really as simple as that.
Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf
of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see
it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing
personal.
-Dave McGuire
20 Dec
20 Dec
2:09 p.m.
Dave McGuire skrev:
Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize
to you on behalf
of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see
it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing
personal.
But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable
experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several
weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at
school or fast asleep. In a real-life auction, there are the three rounds in
which you may increase your bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the
auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this
time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table,
whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really
annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the reason why
anarchy doesn't work very well.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
Kyosuke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson!
Jag: Det heter du inte alls!
3:17 p.m.
On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote:
But do the end justify the means? I have also found it
an
unpleasurable experience to lose something which I have put a bid on
in some cases several weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last
minute, possibly when I'm at school or fast asleep. In a real-life
auction, there are the three rounds in which you may increase your
bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the auctions do instead
go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this time frame is
really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table,
whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's
really annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the
reason why anarchy doesn't work very well.
Whine.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
21 Dec
21 Dec
7:12 a.m.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Oh, sod off. I'm very sorry if you can't rip someone off and make them
happy at the same time, but that's life, too. Whine. =P
On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote:
[klipp]
really
annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the
reason why anarchy doesn't work very well.
Whine. 
20 Dec
20 Dec
4:07 p.m.
Iggy Drougge wrote:
On Ebay, the
auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this
time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table,
whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really
annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour.
Annoying? Perhaps, but bad behavior? No way. Re: playing with their cards on
the table; I don't really understand what you are saying here. If the
bidders bid their maximum bid at any time during the bidding, whether they
were sniped or not is irrelevant. Saying that early bidders should have
priority over those that bid at the last minute (and I don't *think* you are
saying that) would also be wrong.
The whole sniping issue is not about bidding late in the game, but rather
one of the perceived worth of an item. Snipers and non-snipers are both
trying to get something at the lowest price and the issue of sniping or not
sniping is just smoke and mirrors. Bidding what someone thinks an item is
worth has no relationship to the time the bid was submitted.
21 Dec
21 Dec
7:14 a.m.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote:
Iggy Drougge wrote:
Anyone could increment their bid by a dollar. Doing that by the last
minute is dishonest. Certainly, it's playing by the rules, but that's
because the rules are a mess.
On Ebay, the
auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this
time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table,
whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really
annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour.
Annoying? Perhaps, but bad behavior? No way. Re: playing with their cards on
the table; I don't really understand what you are saying here. If the
bidders bid their maximum bid at any time during the bidding, whether they
were sniped or not is irrelevant. Saying that early bidders should have
priority over those that bid at the last minute (and I don't *think* you are
saying that) would also be wrong.
The whole sniping issue is not about bidding late in the game, but rather
one of the perceived worth of an item. Snipers and non-snipers are both
trying to get something at the lowest price and the issue of sniping or not
sniping is just smoke and mirrors. Bidding what someone thinks an item is
worth has no relationship to the time the bid was submitted. 
12:05 a.m.
Ernest, as a
frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf
of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see
it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing
personal.
But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable
experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several
weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at 
3:47 a.m.
>>Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely
apologize to you on behalf
>>of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see
>>it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing
>>personal.
Oh, I know. Getting mugged isn't personal either, it's just a means to an
end.
Fantasy is often pleasurable, but on eBay NOTHING
matters until the last 30
seconds or less. Either play the game, or bid your max.
Yep. That's what I was saying -ebay should only allow bids to be made in the
last 30 seconds. You could still place your max bid earlier, or try for it
in the last 30 seconds but ebay would only tally the bids once it reaches
the last 30 seconds of the bid.
...and like every fantasy, most of learn at a young age that there will
always be someone to ruin it for us. That's why snipping is self
perpetuating -if you know that there's going to be a jerk at the end no
matter what you do, the jerk might as well be you. Thus, the snipping
continues.
New nasty bidding technique I just started playing with
tonight. Search for
an item, sort by price ascending, then work through all the buy it now
listings and make your kill on the fresh meat.
I don't see that as nasty. You're just looking for items that you can buy
outright. That is a completely different thing. "Buy it Now" is straight
forward and honest. Snipping is crooked and mean spirited.
I'm not an idealist about this stuff. I know that most people are basically
self centered and self interested. The part that bothers me is that, since
sneakiness and this sort of borderline deceit doesn't come naturally to me,
I was caught with my mouth open when the pie hit my face -so to speak, and I
felt stupid for not knowing better, for not assuming that people will always
find a way to beat the system at everyone elses expense. I was left feeling
foolish and gullable when I should have known better -that's what really
annoys me.
Ernest
5:47 a.m.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote:
Oh, I know. Getting mugged isn't personal either,
it's just a means to an
end.
Ernest, how can this be compared to a mugging? Have you ever been mugged?
I haven't, but I'm sure the experience is much worse.
I'm not an idealist about this stuff. I know that
most people are basically
self centered and self interested. The part that bothers me is that, since
sneakiness and this sort of borderline deceit doesn't come naturally to me,
I was caught with my mouth open when the pie hit my face -so to speak, and I
felt stupid for not knowing better, for not assuming that people will always
find a way to beat the system at everyone elses expense. I was left feeling
foolish and gullable when I should have known better -that's what really
annoys me.
More Prozac, please.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
7:58 a.m.
The focus on sniping is missing a basic point, most people shop eBay "when
they are ready to buy" and don't even look at auctions more than a few
hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your
item into play immediately.
When I snipe I'm not taking your candy, it was never yours. The reason I
snipe is because if I bid $37.50 two days early, or even bid, some other
bidder then has two days to shop the product and decide to bid $38, or even
decide the item is "really" worth $100. Making your first bid in the last
moments of the auction gets you a lower price. You risk losing the auction
vs a lower price, and thats it period. The closer to the end, the fewer
"rounds" of bidding.
Many people bid what they "want" to pay, and thats usually an early bid
fantasy, or wish bid. I look at that bid, then maybe research the product
some more, think about what the item is "worth" to me, or what it will cost
from another source, then either snipe, or just make my
maximum bid.
9:13 a.m.
I think that it's important to remember something: it's not the last bid that
wins an auction, it's the *highest* bid. And if someone is willing to pay
more than yourself, how do you figure that they stole your item?
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St |
| .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 |
| b.layer(a)vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0
3:03 p.m.
At 10:58 AM 12/21/00 -0800, you wrote:
The focus on sniping is missing a basic point, most
people shop eBay "when
they are ready to buy" and don't even look at auctions more than a few
hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your
item into play immediately.
Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid
was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe
until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus
the bid auto-increment, right?
- John
5:19 p.m.
John Foust wrote:
The "Buy It Now" (BIN) feature puts a price on an item that stops the
auction if that feature is used before any bids take place (the first bid
eliminates the feature from the auction.)
hours away. This is why the buy it now is so
effective, as it puts your
item into play immediately.
Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid
was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe
until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus
the bid auto-increment, right? 
5:38 p.m.
John Foust wrote:
The "Buy It Now" (BIN) feature puts a price on an item that stops the
auction if that feature is used before any bids take place (the first bid
eliminates the feature from the auction.)
And, from my view, an excellent milksop for the buyer. I figured it saved
me $15+ on the $35 '030 accelerator I bought -- most of them usually go
for $50+.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- I'm an amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. -------------------
hours away. This is why the buy it now is so
effective, as it puts your
item into play immediately.
Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid
was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe
until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus
the bid auto-increment, right? 
6:10 a.m.
On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote:
Dave McGuire skrev:
As I'm sure other people will or have pointed out, ebay is not the same
format as a "real life auction". Snipers are playing by Ebay's rules and
according to the auction format, and although annoying, it's certainly not
"bad behavior".
Sniping only works as long as people do not use the proxy system to bid up
to the maximum they are willing to pay. If everyone used the proxy system
and entered the maximum they were willing to pay, sniping would instantly
stop being useful.
If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum
amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused
ANY danger of sniping.
--
Aaron Nabil
Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely
apologize to you on behalf
of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see
it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing
personal.
But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable
experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several
weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at
school or fast asleep. In a real-life auction, there are the three rounds in
which you may increase your bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the
auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this
time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table,
whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really
annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the reason why
anarchy doesn't work very well.
6:52 a.m.
If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter
the amount maximum
amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused
ANY danger of sniping.
As a case in point, I was bidding last night on another Apple Network
Server (if you can't find parts for a computer, the second best thing is to
just buy another one). I got it up to near $600 before exceeding my "limit".
Whoever has the high bid, and still does, just wants the unit more than me.
I suspect he has at least a grand down. No sniper will shift him.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- I like being single. I'm always there when I need me. -- Art Leo -----------
7:37 a.m.
Aaron Nabil wrote:
As I'm sure other people will or have pointed out,
ebay is not the same
format as a "real life auction". Snipers are playing by Ebay's rules and
according to the auction format, and although annoying, it's certainly not
"bad behavior".
Sniping only works as long as people do not use the proxy system to bid up
to the maximum they are willing to pay. If everyone used the proxy system
and entered the maximum they were willing to pay, sniping would instantly
stop being useful.
If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum
amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused
ANY danger of sniping.
Aaron is correct if you set your max via the proxy then only a snipe
greater than your max will beat you. If your complaint is that you would
have bid more if the sniper bid earlier then bid more with the proxy. If
your complaint is that if you bid early the price goes nuts, well that's
why I switched to a snipe.
The reason I switched over to sniping is that I've watched as items I've
researched get bid up like mad if I had bid early (and the bidding went
beyond reason). So if you bid early most likely you lose the bidding.
Ignore the item until the end and you're more likely to get it and get
it at a reasonable price. I learned this while finding the same seller
selling several of the same items but he posted them with a day gap
between them. On the first item I bid with proxy and got out bid
very quickly (I wouldn't go above what I thought was a reasonable price).
It sold for $15 above the ~$30 I had researched, the second item I
ignored and it didn't sell. The third item I sniped and got it for ~$28.
The seller reposted a few days later the second item, it was bid on
early and it sold for ~$60 ($30 more than my research). Now this isn't
a scientific study was brought about by my initial (learning curve)
observations.
Oh one more thing watch out for shipping, I've seen totally unreasonable
shipping costs. I always check shipping as some sellers use it as a way
of making extra money. I always figure this into my bids so since I'm on
the east coast I tend ot lose a lot of west cost auctions.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
6:12 a.m.
Aaron hit it right on the head. If you bid your max you cannot be sniped.
Period.
Neil added the other bit, If you want to get an item for less than your
max, you must snipe. Period.
Can we move on now?
--Chuck
8:19 a.m.
If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the
amount maximum
amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused
ANY danger of sniping.
Or of getting a good price. Lets say I am selling in the same items in
three auctions over the period of a couple hours. You place your maximum
bid on the first one (its "worth" $75, you bid $51.92 and take the first
bid spot of $9.95), and towards the end of the auction somebody comes along
wanting one of the items. Most likely they "test" your bid (say $25), maybe
via a last second snipe, and guess what you win (but your bid is now $26)
and they move on to the next item I have for auction and "test" that bid.
These bargain hunters effectively remove all the bargains.
Or, maybe the person wants it, and the amount isn't that much and they are
"curious" about how much you bid, so they under bid, ie instead of bidding
whole amounts plus some factor, they bid whole amount less some factor, ie
$50 less $2.03, and your bid becomes $48.27. If they bid $54.37 and win,
they know if its done early enough there is a fair chance you will come
back and save them.
8609
days inactive
8610
days old
18 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
b.layer＠vikingelectronics.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
ernestls＠home.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
nabil＠SpiritOne.com -
ncherry＠home.net -
optimus＠canit.se -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu