15 Jun
2007
15 Jun
'07
9:31 p.m.
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
15 Jun
15 Jun
10:44 p.m.
I use EagleCAD and have been very happy with it. They have a number of
different versions (but I have the full professional version...$$$) and
the non-professional versions have limits on the size of the board you
can do. Since EagleCAD produces Gerber files and Exelan drill files,
you can go to any board house to have your boards fab'd.
EagleCAD supports Windows, Mac OSX (PPC only...not really a problem and
it's X based) and Linux.
Richard A. Cini wrote:
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
--
TTFN - Guy
11:50 p.m.
I agree, Eagle is a really good program and worth it, even the free
version, the commercial version is well worth it and price really isn't
all that bad when you consider all of the very powerful features that
come with it and any PCB fab accepts the output files.
Curt
Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I use EagleCAD and have been very happy with it. They
have a number
of different versions (but I have the full professional version...$$$)
and the non-professional versions have limits on the size of the board
you can do. Since EagleCAD produces Gerber files and Exelan drill
files, you can go to any board house to have your boards fab'd.
EagleCAD supports Windows, Mac OSX (PPC only...not really a problem
and it's X based) and Linux.
Richard A. Cini wrote:
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD
recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and
it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even
if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced
schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can
autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
16 Jun
16 Jun
12:18 a.m.
There are GPL programs gEDA/gschem, PCB for Linux, Windows, MAC OS...
Last time I used it I didn't think there was autorouter.
12:46 a.m.
Checkout KiCad. It's free, it has a huge library. They have a strong
support group on Yahoo. Also Cad models for different components. They
also have utilities to convert libraries from other Eda tools. Just
recently, someone converted all the libraries from Eagle. There's
another person which created a library which has dozens and dozens of 3D
cad models for components too.
=Dan
[ vintage electrons are just as good ]
[ http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/ ]
Richard A. Cini wrote:
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
12:55 a.m.
Another thing about autorouters,
Unless the eda tool lets you enter constraints, it's not going be to of
significant value. KiCad doesn't have the greatest autorouter. But then
you wouldn't find a decent one unless you get a professional eda tool
(which lets you enter constraints). Even though a processor such as the
6502 isn't high speed(concerning crosstalk,etc) you still don't want to
get the spaghetti out of an autorouter--which most of these low end eda
tools provide. For such a small board your better off to manually route
the board--where you route the address/data bus cleanly across the
board, and control signals and clocks are not intermingled with them.
=Dan
[ vintage electrons are just as good ]
[ http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/ ]
Richard A. Cini wrote:
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
6:45 a.m.
Hi,
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
A couple years ago when I was getting back into
circuit design I looked into a few packages in
some detail. I came to the same conclusion about
ExpressPCB, it's just too limited.
I looked into Eagle, and while it's popular on
the web and very functional, I found the user
interface just too clunky to deal with. It's
clear it started life as a DOS program, and the
designers just haven't moved it forward.
I finally settled on Target 3001. It's done by a
small crew in Germany. While it has it's small
quirks, it's very complete (it has an
auto-router!) and quite easy to use. The parts
library is reasonably extensive, though it does
have a distinctive European accent.
Here's the URL: http://www.ibfriedrich.com/english/
When I was actively using it a year or two ago
the customer support was fantastic: email
questions answered in a day or two, and in one
case where'd I found a bug, they sent a new executable with a fix the next day!
They have a free download for small designs (<
200 pins/pads), I've done fairly extensive
designs with the "smart" edition (< 700
pins/pads) for less than $200. This version
outputs standard Gerber files you can send to any
PCB fab house. There's also a free version that
outputs exclusively to a European PCB house (www.pcb-pool.com)
The card for the PDP-11/70 panel controller I did
a few years ago was done in Target 3001:
http://www.saccade.com/writing/projects/PDP11/PDP-11.html
I'd be very interested to hear feedback on other
similar CAD packages - it's very difficult to
find review material on stuff like this.
Cheers,
jp
6:45 a.m.
Hi,
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
A couple years ago when I was getting back into
circuit design I looked into a few packages in
some detail. I came to the same conclusion about
ExpressPCB, it's just too limited.
I looked into Eagle, and while it's popular on
the web and very functional, I found the user
interface just too clunky to deal with. It's
clear it started life as a DOS program, and the
designers just haven't moved it forward.
I finally settled on Target 3001. It's done by a
small crew in Germany. While it has it's small
quirks, it's very complete (it has an
auto-router!) and quite easy to use. The parts
library is reasonably extensive, though it does
have a distinctive European accent.
Here's the URL: http://www.ibfriedrich.com/english/
When I was actively using it a year or two ago
the customer support was fantastic: email
questions answered in a day or two, and in one
case where'd I found a bug, they sent a new executable with a fix the next day!
They have a free download for small designs (<
200 pins/pads), I've done fairly extensive
designs with the "smart" edition (< 700
pins/pads) for less than $200. This version
outputs standard Gerber files you can send to any
PCB fab house. There's also a free version that
outputs exclusively to a European PCB house (www.pcb-pool.com)
The card for the PDP-11/70 panel controller I did
a few years ago was done in Target 3001:
http://www.saccade.com/writing/projects/PDP11/PDP-11.html
I'd be very interested to hear feedback on other
similar CAD packages - it's very difficult to
find review material on stuff like this.
Cheers,
jp
7:14 a.m.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
I like WinQCad. The software is free, with autorouter, for a limited
number of pins. True try before you buy. : )
Grant
8:24 a.m.
Ok, I downloaded KiCad and WinQCad and we'll see where we go. Good news is
that the project is small enough that it's not too much of a pain to re-draw
the schematic.
On 6/16/07 7:14 AM, "Grant Stockly" <grant at stockly.com> wrote:
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
I like WinQCad. The software is free, with autorouter, for a limited
number of pins. True try before you buy. : )
Grant
9:16 a.m.
You might want to check out the extra Libraries(extensive) for KiCad too
Converted Libraries (from Eagle)
http://library.oshec.org/
Additional Libraries, 3D Cad models
http://www.reniemarquet.cjb.net/kicad.htm (original link)
http://tinyurl.com/26jk3x (Translated)
=Dan
[ vintage electrons are just as good ]
[ http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/ ]
Richard A. Cini wrote:
Ok, I downloaded KiCad and WinQCad and we'll see
where we go. Good news is
that the project is small enough that it's not too much of a pain to re-draw
the schematic.
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
1:20 p.m.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Good options are:
- Eagle. Not too expensive in the "non-profit" version with boards up to
16x10 if I'm not mistaken. The UI is clunky and the autorouter does it work
in double sided boards.
- Diptrace. "work in progress" but a GREAT program, tons of libraries
(and convert eagle libraries to it!) and the developer is very active and
responsive for all kind of questions and bug reports. Made me delay the
purchase of the eagle license
- Circad - Best of all, but doesn't do autorouter (which I don't need
anyways) and very, very expensive. Ugh.
- Protel - there is a 30 day "trial" which you can build your board :o)
- KCad. Free but a good program, worth a look.
I'd stick with diptrace. I see nothing better than it
1:40 p.m.
Alexandre Souza wrote:
- Protel - there is a 30 day "trial"
which you can build your board :o)
I want the DOS program ...
Well ok I got the shareware version but every thing is now GUI and very
expensive.
Australa seems to have a lot a PCB programs, I wounder is that the
only place that still have people building hobby electronic stuff.
It is too hard for me to get my $$$ from Canada to there so I too
am looking for a good PCB program, but first I need schematics created
...
2:56 p.m.
On 16 Jun 2007 at 11:40, woodelf wrote:
I want the DOS program ...
Well ok I got the shareware version but every thing is now GUI and very
expensive.
Australa seems to have a lot a PCB programs, I wounder is that the
only place that still have people building hobby electronic stuff.
It is too hard for me to get my $$$ from Canada to there so I too
am looking for a good PCB program, but first I need schematics created
...
Well, if anyone wants "vintage", I still have a PCB CAD program
written for the Atari ST. Can't recall the name right now, but it
sort of worked...
Cheers,
Chuck
5:39 p.m.
On Jun 16, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I believe today's "PCB" program was derived from that program on
the ST.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I want the DOS
program ...
Well ok I got the shareware version but every thing is now GUI and
very
expensive.
Australa seems to have a lot a PCB programs, I wounder is that the
only place that still have people building hobby electronic stuff.
It is too hard for me to get my $$$ from Canada to there so I too
am looking for a good PCB program, but first I need schematics
created
...
Well, if anyone wants "vintage", I still have a PCB CAD program
written for the Atari ST. Can't recall the name right now, but it
sort of worked... 
3:25 p.m.
Well, I now have five different CAD programs installed and so far Diptrace
is the easiest to use. It has easy-to-use component selection, busses and
the workflow seems to be smooth.
I downloaded the 250-pin version so we'll see how far I get. I will probably
exceed 250 pins but it's a very reasonable price to move to 500.
On 6/16/07 1:20 PM, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at
e-secure.com.br>
wrote:
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
Does anyone
have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Good options are:
- Eagle. Not too expensive in the "non-profit" version with boards up to
16x10 if I'm not mistaken. The UI is clunky and the autorouter does it work
in double sided boards.
- Diptrace. "work in progress" but a GREAT program, tons of libraries
(and convert eagle libraries to it!) and the developer is very active and
responsive for all kind of questions and bug reports. Made me delay the
purchase of the eagle license
- Circad - Best of all, but doesn't do autorouter (which I don't need
anyways) and very, very expensive. Ugh.
- Protel - there is a 30 day "trial" which you can build your board :o)
- KCad. Free but a good program, worth a look.
I'd stick with diptrace. I see nothing better than it
8:04 p.m.
Richard A. Cini wrote:
Well, I now have five different CAD programs installed
and so far Diptrace
is the easiest to use. It has easy-to-use component selection, busses and
the workflow seems to be smooth.
I downloaded the 250-pin version so we'll see how far I get. I will probably
exceed 250 pins but it's a very reasonable price to move to 500.
All my designs seem to have about 40 TTL chips. That is over 500 pins
@ 16 pins a chip. :(
1:47 p.m.
On Jun 15, 2007, at 9:31 PM, Richard A. Cini wrote:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC
board CAD
recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and
it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even
if it?s
a basic router).
Actually it's quite good. I've done three commercial products
with that software, running it under a Windows emulator on an adult
computer. No autorouter though, that's very true. But many
autorouters are more trouble than they're worth, IMO.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a
reasonably priced
schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can
autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking
$250 or
less.
I now use PCB (for X11) which is fantastic, even for very large
multilayer boards. Its autorouter is better than it was, but it's
still...an autorouter. I do my layouts by hand. It's time
consuming, but then there's that whole "pride in workmanship" thing.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
4:38 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
I now use PCB (for X11) which is fantastic, even for very large
multilayer boards. Its autorouter is better than it was, but it's
Will PCB import old P-CAD boards? I've been looking for something
which will absorb some old customer p-cad schematic & board files and
let me change them.
Personally I use Eagle and like it a lot (probably says something about
my UI notions :-). I've done a number of boards with it and been happy.
Certainly up to 6 layers it's fine. But I will admit it has some
issues; split internal planes are not it's strong suit.
I like it because I can do things quickly and get gerbers which can be
made by anyone. And it runs on linux.
-brad
5:58 p.m.
On Jun 16, 2007, at 4:38 PM, Brad Parker wrote:
I don't think it can. :-(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I now use
PCB (for X11) which is fantastic, even for very large
multilayer boards. Its autorouter is better than it was, but it's
Will PCB import old P-CAD boards? I've been looking for something
which will absorb some old customer p-cad schematic & board files and
let me change them.
7:10 p.m.
On 6/16/07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On Jun 16, 2007, at 4:38 PM, Brad Parker wrote:
I don't think it can. :-(
If P-CAD format is open, then it will not be hard to write a P-CAD - PCB
converter.
PCB files are in text-format. This is priceless.
I added pictures/logos to the PCB board by directly editing the text file.
vax, 9000
-Dave
I now
use PCB (for X11) which is fantastic, even for very large
multilayer boards. Its autorouter is better than it was, but it's
Will PCB import old P-CAD boards? I've been looking for something
which will absorb some old customer p-cad schematic & board files and
let me change them.
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6224
days inactive
6225
days old
23 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
grant＠stockly.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pdp11＠saccade.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
ragooman＠comcast.net -
rcini＠optonline.net -
vax9000＠gmail.com