26 Jul
2009
26 Jul
'09
9:37 p.m.
Greetings all;
I've had an 11/34a in the basement for some time now, but haven't ever had
it "working", nor have I messed with it in several years - which, of
course, means I've forgotten almost everything I ever knew about them,
which is almost nothing, so I'm starting from scratch, pretty much.
My 11/34a used to run a Xerox laser and came with a CDC9762, the card cage
looks like this:
AAAAAA BBBBBB CCCCCC DDDDDD EEEEEE FFFFFF
1 M8266 -------------------------------------------|
2 M8265 -------------------------------------------|
3 FLIPCHIP
4 M9301 YJ-----| M7856---------------------------|
5 National Semiconductor Memory Board--------------|
6 G7232---------|
7 G7232---------|
8 G7232---------|
9 M9202--------| G7232---------|
10 M9202--------| X031-|
11 X020 --------------------------------------------|
12 X030 --------------------------------------------|
13 M7843 -------------------------------------------|
14 FLIPCHIP
15 FLIPCHIP
16 FLIPCHIP
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 M9302--------|
AAAAAA BBBBBB CCCCCC DDDDDD EEEEEE FFFFFF
(Where slots 1-9 are in the right-hand backplane when looking from the
front, and 10-23 are in the left-hand 14 slot backplane, which M9202
bridges between)
I've got the DL11-W set up in the same manner as the 300bps example in the
11/34 Users Manual (and the DL11-W Operators Manual), and at this time I
have the three X* cards as well as the M7843 card removed as I don't
believe they're required for boot.
I've verified on the backplane that +5 sits at a steady +5.06VDC and -15
is at -14.86VDC. I do not possess an o-scope, so the best I can do is with
my multimeter.
I have two problems. The first is that I do not own a "proper" cable that
goes from the DL11-W to a terminal. I own a VT240 and have crafted a cable
that goes from the Berg connector on the DL11-W through a header to a DB9,
which connects to a DB25/DB9 expander on the back of the VT240.
Obviously I've verified the VT240 is in 300/8O1 as required. To go from
the flat-ribbon to the DB9 I have what used to be the header from a CDROM
drive and have soldered the RX/TX/GND lines on the DB9 direct to the pins
on this header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG DB9
B 5 GND
F 2 RX
J 3 TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
Booting the 11/34a gives me nothing on console, but...
Even if my cable works the 11/34a doesn't seem to be acting like it is
supposed to. From my reading of the User Manual on power on, with the
front switches set to CONT and the BOOT/INIT switch toggled to INIT and
then let go, I should get the RUN light to blink out and then come back on
and stay on.
When I power on the unit the RUN light comes on momentarily, and then goes
out. When I toggle BOOT/INIT the light flicks on, and again, goes out. I'm
suspecting this means that somewhere the 11/34a is halting. If my console
worked, perhaps I would get something to it - although, for all I know the
console does work and the 11/34a is dying prior to it spitting something
out.
I would love any and all input as to how I should proceed. I'm reading as
much as I can, but I've got a long way to go and help would be greatly
appreciated.
My thanks;
- JP
26 Jul
26 Jul
10:13 p.m.
JP Hindin wrote:
I have two problems. The first is that I do not own a
"proper" cable that
goes from the DL11-W to a terminal. I own a VT240 and have crafted a cable
that goes from the Berg connector on the DL11-W through a header to a DB9,
which connects to a DB25/DB9 expander on the back of the VT240.
Obviously I've verified the VT240 is in 300/8O1 as required. To go from
the flat-ribbon to the DB9 I have what used to be the header from a CDROM
drive and have soldered the RX/TX/GND lines on the DB9 direct to the pins
on this header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG ? ?DB9
B ? ? ? ?5 ? ?GND
F ? ? ? ?2 ? ?RX
J ? ? ? ?3 ? ?TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
I built a cable like the adapter you're describing here for a DL11-D
and it looks like the same sort of deal. For a terminal, I think you
want RX and TX the other way around (unless you're using a crossed
cable from your adapter to the terminal, of course). You also need to
connect the "interlock" pins too (E and M for EIA/RS-232).
--
Steve Maddison
http://www.cosam.org/
11:28 p.m.
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009, Steve Maddison wrote:
I've verified the DB9<->DB25 does not cross, so I have rewired, and
connected the interlocks (I'm not entirely positive what this does...?)
My new adaptor is:
Berg DB9
B 5 GND
F 3 TX
J 2 RX
E-. Interlock bridged
M-~ Interlock bridged
Powering on the 11/34a gives me the same... nothing at all, but as I
suspect the 11/34a is halting somewhere, this is probably quite
reasonable.
My thanks, Steve, for getting me a little closer.
- JP
on this
header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG ? ?DB9
B ? ? ? ?5 ? ?GND
F ? ? ? ?2 ? ?RX
J ? ? ? ?3 ? ?TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
I built a cable like the adapter you're describing here for a DL11-D
and it looks like the same sort of deal. For a terminal, I think you
want RX and TX the other way around (unless you're using a crossed
cable from your adapter to the terminal, of course). You also need to
connect the "interlock" pins too (E and M for EIA/RS-232).
27 Jul
27 Jul
4:36 p.m.
JP Hindin wrote:
I've verified the DB9<->DB25 does not cross,
so I have rewired, and
connected the interlocks (I'm not entirely positive what this does...?)
The
DL11 can do both EIA and current loop. The interlock effectively
tells it which of those you want enabled. The "proper" cables have the
appropriate interlock connected depending on what it connects to at
the other end.
Powering on the 11/34a gives me the same... nothing at
all, but as I
suspect the 11/34a is halting somewhere, this is probably quite
reasonable.
You could try shortening the Unibus by pulling the M9202 and putting
the M9203 in slot 9 of the first backplane. Is the M9203 set up for
the ASCII console emulator?
--
Steve Maddison
http://www.cosam.org/
4:10 p.m.
You mentioned that you've removed cards, which prompts me to ask: did you replace them
with grant continuity cards? And did you verify that the NPG line is continuous, i.e.
none of those cards you removed are making use of it? The M7843 doesn't use NPG, but
I don't know about your 'X' cards.
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP
Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:37 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: PDP11/34a resurrection help
Greetings all;
I've had an 11/34a in the basement for some time now, but haven't ever had
it "working", nor have I messed with it in several years - which, of
course, means I've forgotten almost everything I ever knew about them,
which is almost nothing, so I'm starting from scratch, pretty much.
My 11/34a used to run a Xerox laser and came with a CDC9762, the card cage
looks like this:
AAAAAA BBBBBB CCCCCC DDDDDD EEEEEE FFFFFF
1 M8266 -------------------------------------------|
2 M8265 -------------------------------------------|
3 FLIPCHIP
4 M9301 YJ-----| M7856---------------------------|
5 National Semiconductor Memory Board--------------|
6 G7232---------|
7 G7232---------|
8 G7232---------|
9 M9202--------| G7232---------|
10 M9202--------| X031-|
11 X020 --------------------------------------------|
12 X030 --------------------------------------------|
13 M7843 -------------------------------------------|
14 FLIPCHIP
15 FLIPCHIP
16 FLIPCHIP
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 M9302--------|
AAAAAA BBBBBB CCCCCC DDDDDD EEEEEE FFFFFF
(Where slots 1-9 are in the right-hand backplane when looking from the
front, and 10-23 are in the left-hand 14 slot backplane, which M9202
bridges between)
I've got the DL11-W set up in the same manner as the 300bps example in the
11/34 Users Manual (and the DL11-W Operators Manual), and at this time I
have the three X* cards as well as the M7843 card removed as I don't
believe they're required for boot.
I've verified on the backplane that +5 sits at a steady +5.06VDC and -15
is at -14.86VDC. I do not possess an o-scope, so the best I can do is with
my multimeter.
I have two problems. The first is that I do not own a "proper" cable that
goes from the DL11-W to a terminal. I own a VT240 and have crafted a cable
that goes from the Berg connector on the DL11-W through a header to a DB9,
which connects to a DB25/DB9 expander on the back of the VT240.
Obviously I've verified the VT240 is in 300/8O1 as required. To go from
the flat-ribbon to the DB9 I have what used to be the header from a CDROM
drive and have soldered the RX/TX/GND lines on the DB9 direct to the pins
on this header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG DB9
B 5 GND
F 2 RX
J 3 TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
Booting the 11/34a gives me nothing on console, but...
Even if my cable works the 11/34a doesn't seem to be acting like it is
supposed to. From my reading of the User Manual on power on, with the
front switches set to CONT and the BOOT/INIT switch toggled to INIT and
then let go, I should get the RUN light to blink out and then come back on
and stay on.
When I power on the unit the RUN light comes on momentarily, and then goes
out. When I toggle BOOT/INIT the light flicks on, and again, goes out. I'm
suspecting this means that somewhere the 11/34a is halting. If my console
worked, perhaps I would get something to it - although, for all I know the
console does work and the 11/34a is dying prior to it spitting something
out.
I would love any and all input as to how I should proceed. I'm reading as
much as I can, but I've got a long way to go and help would be greatly
appreciated.
My thanks;
- JP
7:13 p.m.
I've got the DL11-W set up in the same manner as
the 300bps example in the
11/34 Users Manual (and the DL11-W Operators Manual), and at this time I
have the three X* cards as well as the M7843 card removed as I don't
believe they're required for boot.
With na M9302 terminator at the end of the Unibus (as you have), that's
going to cause problems. Basically, there are 5 signals known as 'grants'
that are not bussed, they are passed from one card to the next along the
backplane. If there's a gap (as there will be with cards removed),
there's soem logic on the terminator that gets confuesed, and hangs the
entire machine.
I can give you a lot more details if you want it. To start with, though,
youshould be able to run a short Unibus like that with no termintor at
the far end -- just pul lthe M9302 card as well.
I've verified on the backplane that +5 sits at a steady +5.06VDC and -15
is at -14.86VDC. I do not possess an o-scope, so the best I can do is with
my multimeter.
I have two problems. The first is that I do not own a "proper" cable that
goes from the DL11-W to a terminal. I own a VT240 and have crafted a cable
that goes from the Berg connector on the DL11-W through a header to a DB9,
which connects to a DB25/DB9 expander on the back of the VT240.
Obviously I've verified the VT240 is in 300/8O1 as required. To go from
the flat-ribbon to the DB9 I have what used to be the header from a CDROM
drive and have soldered the RX/TX/GND lines on the DB9 direct to the pins
on this header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG DB9
B 5 GND
F 2 RX
J 3 TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
I think there's one thing you've forgotten, but it would only affect
input from the terminal. And that's that you need a jumper wire on the
Berg connector to connect the output of the RS232 receiver (for the RxD
line) to the input of the UART (the reason for this jumper is that you
can fit a different jumper to connect the current loop circuit to the UART).
-tony
7:55 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:14 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP11/34a resurrection help
One thing that would help you a lot with the console cable: check out the prints for the
DL11 (M7800) on Bitsavers (thanks, Al!). It has a table of the connections, including the
jumper Tony mentions. These cables aren't all that uncommon, so you might be able to
pick one up on ePay or from someone on this list. -- Ian
I've got the DL11-W set up in the same manner
as the 300bps example
in the
11/34 Users Manual (and the DL11-W Operators
Manual), and at this
time I
have the three X* cards as well as the M7843 card
removed as I don't
believe they're required for boot.
With na M9302 terminator at the end of the Unibus (as you have), that's
going to cause problems. Basically, there are 5 signals known as
'grants'
that are not bussed, they are passed from one card to the next along
the
backplane. If there's a gap (as there will be with cards removed),
there's soem logic on the terminator that gets confuesed, and hangs the
entire machine.
I can give you a lot more details if you want it. To start with,
though,
youshould be able to run a short Unibus like that with no termintor at
the far end -- just pul lthe M9302 card as well.
I've verified on the backplane that +5 sits at a steady +5.06VDC and
-15
is at -14.86VDC. I do not possess an o-scope, so
the best I can do is
with
my multimeter.
I have two problems. The first is that I do not own a "proper" cable
that
goes from the DL11-W to a terminal. I own a VT240
and have crafted a
cable
that goes from the Berg connector on the DL11-W
through a header to a
DB9,
which connects to a DB25/DB9 expander on the back
of the VT240.
Obviously I've verified the VT240 is in 300/8O1 as required. To go
from
the flat-ribbon to the DB9 I have what used to be
the header from a
CDROM
drive and have soldered the RX/TX/GND lines on
the DB9 direct to the
pins
on this header. Currently it looks like this:
BERG DB9
B 5 GND
F 2 RX
J 3 TX
I -think- this is right, but I'm not positive. If I'm doing something
stupid, I'd sure love to have someone point it out.
I think there's one thing you've forgotten, but it would only affect
input from the terminal. And that's that you need a jumper wire on the
Berg connector to connect the output of the RS232 receiver (for the RxD
line) to the input of the UART (the reason for this jumper is that you
can fit a different jumper to connect the current loop circuit to the
UART).
28 Jul
28 Jul
1:42 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009, Ian King wrote:
Just to make sure I'm understanding this fully - this is the Berg
connector lines E & M bridge that Steve Maddison mentioned first, right?
(Which I have, in fact, completed in my updated cable)
Thanks;
- JP
I think
there's one thing you've forgotten, but it would only affect
input from the terminal. And that's that you need a jumper wire on the
Berg connector to connect the output of the RS232 receiver (for the RxD
line) to the input of the UART (the reason for this jumper is that you
can fit a different jumper to connect the current loop circuit to the
UART).
One thing that would help you a lot with the console cable: check out
the prints for the DL11 (M7800) on Bitsavers (thanks, Al!). It has a
table of the connections, including the jumper Tony mentions. These
cables aren't all that uncommon, so you might be able to pick one up on
ePay or from someone on this list. -- Ian
6:33 a.m.
[DL11 'interlock' jumper]
Just to make sure I'm understanding this fully -
this is the Berg
connector lines E & M bridge that Steve Maddison mentioned first, right?
(Which I have, in fact, completed in my updated cable)
Yes, that's correct. I saw your updated wirelist after I sent my message,
I noted you now have the jumper in place.
-tony
12:15 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Weeeeeeell... I'm not sure if I've just broken it for the better or for
the worse, but it's definitely doing something different.
This is the sequence of events (with power offs in between, of course)
- I removed the M9302 and powered the unit up, RUN light on, immediately
off, as usual.
- I removed the M9202 that bridges the short bus to the long bus. No
change.
I noticed that one of the boards I removed, the X031, has a regulator on
it (it has -15VDC silkscreened on it, not that that helps), and although I
suspected it must be needed for the other X* cards, I thought I'd drop it
in and see.
- With the X031 in, the M9202 in, but the M9302 out, I power on - the RUN
light comes on and STAYS on. But flicking the BOOT/INIT switch does not
make it go out at all, which I _think_ it's supposed to do. Flicking
HALT/CONT also does not make the light go out. Great. Now I've hosed it.
- I remove the X031, power on. Same (RUN light stuck on)
- I put the M9302 in, same again.
- I remove the M9202, and what do you know, back to the RUN light going
off and staying off, except wheen BOOT/INIT is toggled, and then it flicks
out again.
If I put the M9202 in and bridge the busses (without any boards in the
'big bus') the RUN light stays on. Remove the M9202, it's off and won't
go
on except momentarily when the BOOT/INIT is toggled.
I see nothing on the console, although I'm still vaguely suspect I've
gotten something wrong (about how long should I expect to wait before
the $ should pop up?).
Boy, I'd love to know what it sounds like to you folks. I appreciate all
of the suggestions I've received, onlist and off, thanks to all for your
help.
- JP
I've got
the DL11-W set up in the same manner as the 300bps example in the
11/34 Users Manual (and the DL11-W Operators Manual), and at this time I
have the three X* cards as well as the M7843 card removed as I don't
believe they're required for boot.
With na M9302 terminator at the end of the Unibus (as you have), that's
going to cause problems. Basically, there are 5 signals known as 'grants'
that are not bussed, they are passed from one card to the next along the
backplane. If there's a gap (as there will be with cards removed),
there's soem logic on the terminator that gets confuesed, and hangs the
entire machine.
I can give you a lot more details if you want it. To start with, though,
youshould be able to run a short Unibus like that with no termintor at
the far end -- just pul lthe M9302 card as well.
5411
days inactive
5413
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jplist2008＠kiwigeek.com -
steve＠cosam.org