Even worse is a rack-mount dual BA23. I used to have to pull all the cards out and reseat them on one system. The quad-width cards had locks, but the dual-width didn't, and I couldn't easily get to the dual-width cards to properly reseat them with the quad-width cards in place. I really like the BA213 and BA440. I have a 4000/500 in a BA440 at home. Yes, indeed. All because of licensing costs. The 8820 is their slowest system and all it does is run that one piece of software. Never mind the environmental and service costs are more than a new system and license. Yeah, people think I'm a nut, and my computer collection is not nearly as large as it should be. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Ethusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/