4 Sep
2015
4 Sep
'15
8:14 p.m.
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a serial connection, right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
I did not see any definitive controller card for UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
4 Sep
4 Sep
8:20 p.m.
On Sep 4, 2015, at 8:14 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a serial connection, right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
??? A TU10 is a formatter for 7 or 9 track magnetic tape. I don't remember any Baud
in that one.
I did not see any definitive controller card for
UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
The Unibus interface that talks to the TU10 is called TM11.
paul
9:54 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:14 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a serial
connection, right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
No.
I did not see any definitive controller card for
UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
A TU10 master drive contains electronics[*] which allows it to be
interfaced to a PDP-11 TM11 tape control. Said electronics is probably
what's known as a formatter, though I haven't studied the TU10 in
detail so I'm not 100% certain.
A master TU10 can be used with up to seven TU10, TU20, TU30, or TU40
slave transports.
The TM11 controller has its own backplane, and may be mounted in the
TU10 master drive. It connects to PDP-11 using the usual BC11-A Unibus
cables.
5 Sep
5 Sep
11:40 a.m.
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it is a master. I see where
it connects using the backplane cable to the pdp11. I never worked with a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common or people who have them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 3:37 AM, "Eric Smith" <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:14 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a
serial connection, right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
No.
I did not see any definitive controller card for
UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I
am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
A TU10 master drive contains electronics[*] which allows it to be
interfaced to a PDP-11 TM11 tape control. Said electronics is probably
what's known as a formatter, though I haven't studied the TU10 in
detail so I'm not 100% certain.
A master TU10 can be used with up to seven TU10, TU20, TU30, or TU40
slave transports.
The TM11 controller has its own backplane, and may be mounted in the
TU10 master drive. It connects to PDP-11 using the usual BC11-A Unibus
cables.
11:46 a.m.
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
11:47 a.m.
On 9/5/15 8:46 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
And the basic tape transport was reused in the TE-16
I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
noon
Were common, but are there a lot in use today? I am going to take some
photos, share with whomever is interested. The plan is to clean
thoroughly, move into the basement and work to restore.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 9/5/15 8:46 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
--
Bill
vintagecomputer.net
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
And the basic tape transport was reused in the TE-16
I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I
guess
these are not super common
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors
to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
12:21 p.m.
On 2015-09-05 18:00, william degnan wrote:
Were common, but are there a lot in use today? I am
going to take some
photos, share with whomever is interested. The plan is to clean
thoroughly, move into the basement and work to restore.
I would say they are rather uncommon today. We're basically talking
about a 40 year old tape drive with vacuum colons. Many things that age
badly, not to mention lots were tossed when they became unfashionable.
And vacuum colon drives do require a bit more time and understanding to
work on in the first place.
I have a TU10 at home, connected to my PDP8, but I doubt the drive is
working anymore. I haven't powered it on in over 10 years...
Johnny
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 9/5/15 8:46 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
And the basic tape transport was reused in the TE-16
I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I
guess
these are not super common
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors
to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
12:57 p.m.
That is one of a handful of DEC items I'm still looking for, so if anyone
has an extra or running out of room, please contact me off list.
I would plan on the capstan being shot also. Anyone have any extras?
Paul
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-09-05 18:00, william degnan wrote:
Were common, but are there a lot in use today? I
am going to take some
photos, share with whomever is interested. The plan is to clean
thoroughly, move into the basement and work to restore.
I would say they are rather uncommon today. We're basically talking about
a 40 year old tape drive with vacuum colons. Many things that age badly,
not to mention lots were tossed when they became unfashionable.
And vacuum colon drives do require a bit more time and understanding to
work on in the first place.
I have a TU10 at home, connected to my PDP8, but I doubt the drive is
working anymore. I haven't powered it on in over 10 years...
Johnny
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Al Kossow
<aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 9/5/15 8:46 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
I surprisingly found little
> commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I
> guess
> these are not super common
>
>
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors
to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
And the basic tape transport was reused in the TE-16
5:16 p.m.
On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 08:46:44AM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/5/15 8:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
I have a working one on an 8. It took a lot of work to get it to that state.
http://www.pdp8online.com/tu10/tu10-repair.shtml
http://www.pdp8online.com/shows/vcfe09/vcfe09.shtml
9 track drives don't seem to be that popular to collect. I think the
vacuum column drives are interesting to watch. The IBM ones are nicer but this
one is easier to move. And from the old movies isn't not a computer if it
doesn't have spinning tapes.
I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect the vacuum sensors
to be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
6:32 p.m.
On 9/5/2015 3:16 PM, David Gesswein wrote:
9 track drives don't seem to be that popular to
collect. I think the
vacuum column drives are interesting to watch. The IBM ones are nicer but this
one is easier to move. And from the old movies isn't not a computer if it
doesn't have spinning tapes.
I thought it was the feminine voice, for all but Hal 9000.
Ben.
6:36 p.m.
On 9/5/2015 4:32 PM, ben wrote:
On 9/5/2015 3:16 PM, David Gesswein wrote:
Unlock the Car Doors Hal?
Sorry I can do that Dave.
9 track drives don't seem to be that popular
to collect. I think the
vacuum column drives are interesting to watch. The IBM ones are nicer
but this
one is easier to move. And from the old movies isn't not a computer if it
doesn't have spinning tapes.
I thought it was the feminine voice, for all but Hal 9000.
Ben.
6 Sep
6 Sep
8:37 a.m.
On Sat, 5 Sep 2015, Al Kossow wrote:
They were common. I worked on a bunch of them. Expect
the vacuum sensors to
be bad
in the columns. I think Guy still has a couple of them.
We've repaired them with cut outs from latex gloves. The problem is the
membrane that became brittle with the time. Opening the sensors isn't
trivial, though.
Honk!!
If you've ever loaded a tape on one, you know what that means!
Yes :-))
BTW has anyone ever tried to attach a non-DEC unformatted tape drive (e.g.
I have two Wangco Model 10 800 bpi drives) as a slave to a master
TU10/TM11 combo ?
Christian
5 Sep
5 Sep
12:26 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: william degnan
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 5:40 PM
To: cctech
Subject: Re: Tu10 pdp11
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it is a master. I see where
it connects using the backplane cable to the pdp11. I never worked with a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common or people who have them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 3:37 AM, "Eric Smith" <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:14 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
======
I may be wrong, but then again, this might be useful ...
The TE16 is nearly (?) identical to the TU10. My guess is that the TU10
is just a bit older. My TE16 has a MASSBUS interface, so I cannot
compare on that side. However, the TE16 also is either master or slave.
And to a master can be connected 7 slaves. The interconnection is three
40-wire flat cables.
ISTR that the interface for the TU10 is a 4-slot backplane, and I
think it is called TMB11. The TMB11 is also used to hook up the TS03.
So you need the 4-slot backplane in the master tape drive, and the
4-slot TMB11 backplane in the CPU or expansion box.
This is from (old) memory cells, so I could be wrong!
- Henk
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a
serial connection,
right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
No.
I did not see any definitive controller card for
UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I
am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
A TU10 master drive contains electronics[*] which allows it to be
interfaced to a PDP-11 TM11 tape control. Said electronics is probably
what's known as a formatter, though I haven't studied the TU10 in
detail so I'm not 100% certain.
A master TU10 can be used with up to seven TU10, TU20, TU30, or TU40
slave transports.
The TM11 controller has its own backplane, and may be mounted in the
TU10 master drive. It connects to PDP-11 using the usual BC11-A Unibus
cables.
12:39 p.m.
Quick documentation check ... I think I made a mistake :-(
TM11 and TMB11 are very different!
I am no longer sure that you can connect a TU10 to a TMB11.
Should probably indeed be a TM11.
I should check docs first, next time ...
Apologies,
- Henk
1:43 p.m.
On 09/05/2015 10:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it is a
master. I see where
it connects using the backplane cable to the pdp11. I never worked with a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common or people who have them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
We had some old Datum mag tape controllers that copied the
TM-11 register layout. These were used with a variety of
Pertec unformatted drives.
Jon
9:54 p.m.
On 9/5/2015 10:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it is a
master. I see where
it connects using the backplane cable to the pdp11. I never worked with a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess
these are not super common or people who have them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 3:37 AM, "Eric Smith" <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
The TM11 connects to the PDP-11 UNIBUS.
The TU10 master drive backplane has some "G" cards in it. The TM11,
mounted separately, does NOT have any "G" cards in it.
JRJ
10:47 p.m.
Thanks. There are 2 backplanes at 90 degrees of each other installed in the
cabinet. 2 separate power supplies. I still need to inventory the cards
and look up what they are configured to do. I have cables. Just getting
started.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 9:52 PM, "Jay Jaeger" <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
On 9/5/2015 10:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it
is a master. I see
where
it connects using the backplane cable to the
pdp11. I never worked with
a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if
references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I
guess
these are not super common or people who have
them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 3:37 AM, "Eric Smith" <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
The TM11 connects to the PDP-11 UNIBUS.
The TU10 master drive backplane has some "G" cards in it. The TM11,
mounted separately, does NOT have any "G" cards in it.
JRJ
6 Sep
6 Sep
3:43 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Jay Jaeger
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2015 3:54 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Tu10 pdp11
On 9/5/2015 10:40 AM, william degnan wrote:
Ok. I checked my tu10, it has the backplane, it is a
master. I see where
it connects using the backplane cable to the pdp11. I never worked with a
TU10 before and I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were
"module/card" or backplane interface. I surprisingly found little
commentary or threads about the TU10 / TM11, other than DEC docs. I
guess
these are not super common or people who have them have not often reached
out to the classic cmp community, that I could find in a search.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 5, 2015 3:37 AM, "Eric Smith" <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
The TM11 connects to the PDP-11 UNIBUS.
The TU10 master drive backplane has some "G" cards in it. The TM11,
mounted separately, does NOT have any "G" cards in it.
JRJ
======
Yes, the TS03 also comes in two versions, master and slave. Underneath
the first drive is a quad module (M8920 IIRC) mounted, and that makes
the TS03 a master. One slave TS03 can be connected to the master.
The quad module connects to the TMB11 controller using a BC11 cable.
The BC11 is commonly for UNIBUS interconnection, but it is used for
several other purposes. TS03 to conttroller is one, RK05 is another
well-known example. TU10 is added to that list ;-)
I have one TU10, so I would be happy to find a TM11 ...
- Henk
4:15 a.m.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT
connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
That's true, but a TM11 controller can be installed in the TU10 master cabinet.
8:20 a.m.
On 9/6/2015 3:15 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Jay Jaeger <cube1
at charter.net> wrote:
Of course. Mine is set up that way - both in the same 19" rack (plus a
PDP-11/05 and a DECCassette drive and other stuff I could fit it). But
remember that the original correspondent at first mentioned only ONE
backplane (singular), so I thought it prudent to point this out lest he
connect the TU10 to the UNIBUS with heaven only knows what bad things
could happen results. Once he read my note, he provided more info which
did indicate he had two different backplanes.
JRJ
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT
connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
That's true, but a TM11 controller can be installed in the TU10 master cabinet.
8:26 a.m.
I am the original poster, I have two planes of cards, not 1. my link
pointed to a page with a thumbnail photo of one of the two planes, but
below that are links to more pics
http://vintagecomputer.net/digital/TU10/
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Sep 6, 2015 8:18 AM, "Jay Jaeger" <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
On 9/6/2015 3:15 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
Of course. Mine is set up that way - both in the same 19" rack (plus a
PDP-11/05 and a DECCassette drive and other stuff I could fit it). But
remember that the original correspondent at first mentioned only ONE
backplane (singular), so I thought it prudent to point this out lest he
connect the TU10 to the UNIBUS with heaven only knows what bad things
could happen results. Once he read my note, he provided more info which
did indicate he had two different backplanes.
JRJ
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Jay Jaeger
<cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
cabinet.
Just to be clear, a TU10, even a master, does NOT
connect directly to a
PDP-11. Instead, a cable of the same general ilk as a BC11 UNIBUS Cable
(but I have not verified it is in fact the same kind of cable) connects
the drive to the TM11 controller.
That's true, but a TM11 controller can be installed in the TU10 master
3247
days inactive
3248
days old
21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cube1＠charter.net -
djg＠pdp8online.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
spacewar＠gmail.com -
useddec＠gmail.com