18 Jul
2008
18 Jul
'08
8:07 p.m.
As a tangent to the "first" computer on the internet, I reference this
interesting link, showing the IMP log, along with the date and time of
the "birth" of said [I][i]nternet.
See:
http://www.lk.cs.ucla.edu/first_words.html
-eric
18 Jul
18 Jul
9:26 p.m.
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 08:07:00PM -0700, Eric wrote:
As a tangent to the "first" computer on the
internet, I reference this
interesting link, showing the IMP log, along with the date and time of
the "birth" of said [I][i]nternet.
See:
http://www.lk.cs.ucla.edu/first_words.html
I'd heard the story before that the first traffic was "lo" (since something
crashed in the middle of "login")... good to see some hardcopy backing that
up.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thinking back to the early days of the 'net, does anyone happen
to have an electronic copy of the article describing the
construction of the "BBN 1822" async interface that was used to
connect PDP-11s to an IMP?
Here's a link to the abstract of the original article:
<http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA037212>
Essentially, it's a high-speed parallel-async interface - parallel from
the PDP-11 (using an available-at-the-time DRV11C or DR11C), serial to
the IMP. From what I know about mid-1970s PDP-11 peripherals, I expect
that DEC's serial cards weren't up to the task for some reason - probably
too slow or lacked some essential handshake that the IMP depended on,
or it could just be that the BBN 1822 interface handled 16-bit-to-8-bit
conversion in hardware to let the CPU worry about message headers and
content. Looking at the original article would probably reveal some
design element that could shed light on why it was specifically necessary
to throw external hardware at the problem.
The original document is known as "BBN 1822" or "STD 39", but
according
to RFC 3109, the document in which "STD 39" was deprecated from a standard
to "historical", STD 39 was never republished as an RFC itself (thus is
not part of the various collections of RFCs).
I'm more interested in schematics of the PDP-11 IMP interface than pages
of IMP protocol descriptions. Anyone have even that part of BBN 1822
around?
Thanks,
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Jul-2008 at 04:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -68.1 F (-55.6 C) Windchill -103.4 F (-75.2 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 14 Barometer 681.4 mb (10575 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
20 Jul
20 Jul
8:31 a.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
I still say all these postings confuses small "i" internet with big
"I" Internet.
was the public on the net at that time? not really, residential home users certainly
didn't exist.
most of the public considers the "web" to be the Internet. hey, don't fault
me for that, it's public thinking.
and that, at least according to Wiki, was the CERN site in Aug of 1991, almost 30 years
later than this.
and again, it wasn't publically published until starting in 1994/1995 at the
earliest.
Even at this time, BBSes were the way of things, the web wasn't really thought of.
I worked for a rather large PC manufacturer at the time, companies weren't advertising
or using "Internet"
until around 1995, perhaps it was a bit earlier in other places, but I hardly think so.
For example, the first Cisco 2501 router to roll off the assembly lines was in 1994.
And at least in the early days, the only addressing they had was Novell IPX.
neither igrp nor ospf were there yet. (just putting things in perspective).
Again, the university and research environment was different. but that's how it was.
So continue with your stupid jokes, and ancient references that mean nothing to the public
at large.
I thought this list was a bit more mature than this
So fine, into the garbage a piece of history goes. congratulations! I hope you're
happy
Dan.
_________________________________________________________________
Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given.
Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207
10:05 a.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
Dan Gahlinger wrote:
So continue with your stupid jokes, and ancient
references that mean nothing to the public at large.
What the "public at large" thinks, knows, or believes might be
interesting but often has little to do with actual history.
I thought this list was a bit more mature than this
So fine, into the garbage a piece of history goes. congratulations! I hope you're
happy
The response from people here seems entirely appropriate given that you
posted wild claims that you still haven't been able to substantiate or
even explain.
The Sum workstation you described may indeed have been the first to do
something interesting, but cannot possibly have been the first to send
Internet email as you apparently claimed.
If it really was the first computer to be used for something interesting
and memorable, to get anyone interested in it, you need to know what it
actually did, with details, and be able to authenticate it. So far you
haven't given us any indication that you are able to do any of that. It
is unsurprising, therefore, that no museums you have contacted show the
slightest interest.
Eric
10:25 a.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
On Jul 20, 2008, at 1:05 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
The Sum workstation you described may indeed have been
the first to
do something interesting, but cannot possibly have been the first
to send Internet email as you apparently claimed.
This was about a SPARCstation-SLC, right? The SLC was introduced
in May of 1990. I was by no means a "very early Internet user" (by
tech geek standards, not general public standards), but even I had
been exchanging email regularly for years before this. Good grief.
The assertion that a SPARCstation-SLC (or any SPARCstation, or any
Sun system at all for that matter) was involved in the "creation of
email" is nothing short of absurd. It's right up there with the
"Microsoft created the Internet" crap that I hear from clueless
people all the time. The one thing that bothers me the most about
this is that this assertion will now be archived on the WWW, which
someone might run across via a search engine, and the absurdity will
be propagated.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10:16 a.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Gahlinger" <dgahling at hotmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:31 AM
Subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
I still say all these postings confuses small "i" internet with big
"I"
Internet.
was the public on the net at that time? not really, residential home users
certainly didn't exist.
most of the public considers the "web" to be the Internet. hey, don't
fault me for that, it's public thinking.
and that, at least according to Wiki, was the CERN site in Aug of 1991,
almost 30 years later than this.
and again, it wasn't publically published until starting in 1994/1995 at
the earliest.
Even at this time, BBSes were the way of things, the web wasn't really
thought of.
I worked for a rather large PC manufacturer at the time, companies weren't
advertising or using "Internet"
until around 1995, perhaps it was a bit earlier in other places, but I
hardly think so.
For example, the first Cisco 2501 router to roll off the assembly lines
was in 1994.
And at least in the early days, the only addressing they had was Novell
IPX.
neither igrp nor ospf were there yet. (just putting things in
perspective).
Um, I don't really know what's up with that, but what the heck - I'll bite.
By the time the 25xx series rolled out, most large companies with a
T1-or-greater connection were most likely
running a Cisco AGS/IGS series router - we had an AGS+ at Citrix, so I don't
really know what your reference to
the 25xx series has anything remotely to do with it...as to IPX only, well,
I don't know - seems we were doing IP just
fine even on the AGS+.
I never know you could connect to, say, UUNet, using IPX. Learn something
new every day, I suppose....
Again, the university and research environment was different. but that's
how it was.
So continue with your stupid jokes, and ancient references that mean
nothing to the public at large.
I thought this list was a bit more mature than this
So fine, into the garbage a piece of history goes. congratulations! I hope
you're happy
The issue is you are trying to tell a bunch of geeks (no offense, folks -
I'm included) the history of the internet, that probably
99% of us actually WENT THROUGH, and are apparently trying to do some
history changing??
I wouldn't get too ticked off, I mean, you're talking to a serious amount of
concentrated computer/mainframe/networking/development
knowledge on this list, and quite frankly, trying to tell us that email was
invented on a SparcStation SLC in 1994 is, well, a tad insulting.
We are QUITE a bit more intelligent than that, and no amount of
Wikipedia-diving on your part is going to change the fact that we know
better.
As to the Sun, well, if it WAS that valuable, "ain't no way" you'd trash
it - I know that, YOU know that, and THEY know that, and yet
another case of underestimating the group...
I'm not feeding any more trolls.
5:54 p.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
For example, the first Cisco 2501 router to roll off
the assembly lines was in 1994.
And at least in the early days, the only addressing they had was Novell IPX.
neither igrp nor ospf were there yet. (just putting things in perspective).
NSFnet hung Cisco AGS routers off the RS/6000-T3B backbone routers.
--
Will
22 Jul
22 Jul
2:43 p.m.
New subject: the "history" of the Internet/Web
From: Dan Gahlinger
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:32 AM
For example, the first Cisco 2501 router to roll off
the assembly
lines was
in 1994. And at least in the early days, the only
addressing they had
was
Novell IPX. neither igrp nor ospf were there yet.
(just putting
things in
perspective).
All right, let's review the history here.
cisco Systems[1] was incorporated in 1984 by Len Bosack and Sandy
Lerner, the
directors respectively of the Computer Science Department Computer
Facility and
the Graduate School of Business Computer Facility of Stanford
University; their
first two employees were Kirk Lougheed, systems manager for the
Electrical
Engineering Department Computer Facility, and Richard Troiano, a
programmer at
GSB.
What were their products? The MEIS (Massbus-Ethernet Interface
Subsystem), a
3Mbit Ethernet for the DECSYSTEM-20 (for which Digital would not produce
an
Ethernet until 1988), a TCP/IP router based on SUN-1 cards in a VME
chassis,
and a terminal interface processor (TIP) based on the same hardware.
Who were their target market? Anyone intending to build an internet
linking
two or more Ethernet-based local-area networks, a topology demonstrated
at
Xerox PARC (where Ethernet was invented) using another internetworking
protocol
suite called PUP (PARC Universal Packets).[2] They did this because
they saw a
time when the Internet would be available to any business, not just
those under
contract to the US Department of Defense or the US Department of Energy,
and
they wanted to be in place to take advantage of that with an already
deployed
technology.
So the capabilities of the 2501 (which, if I remember correctly,
originated as
a product from Catalyst, a smaller competitor which cisco bought out
around
1992 while I was working for them) are irrelevant to what cisco gear
could do
with respect to the Internet.
[1] The original spelling even had a leading apostrophe: 'cisco Systems.
The
first part of the name is an abbreviation of "San Francisco".
(Personal
communication from Sandy Lerner)
[2] In point of fact, the cisco router was capable of doing PUP as well
as
TCP/IP.
26 Nov
26 Nov
3:50 a.m.
2008/7/19 Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>:
Thinking back to the early days of the 'net, does
anyone happen
to have an electronic copy of the article describing the
construction of the "BBN 1822" async interface that was used to
connect PDP-11s to an IMP?
Here's a link to the abstract of the original article:
<http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA037212>
Ever get any answers to this? I'm looking for the same documentation.
BBN 1822 is on bitsavers but only includes high level schematics of
the recommended implementation.
Cheers,
Steve
11:14 a.m.
From: Steve Maddison
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:50 AM
2008/7/19 Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>:
> Thinking back to the early days of the 'net,
does anyone happen
> to have an electronic copy of the article describing the
> construction of the "BBN 1822" async interface that was used to
> connect PDP-11s to an IMP?
> Here's a link to the abstract of the original
article:
>
<http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA037212>
Ever get any answers to this? I'm looking for the
same documentation.
BBN 1822 is on bitsavers but only includes high level schematics of
the recommended implementation.
You can buy hardcopy (fiche or print-on-demand) from NTIS at
http://www.ntis.gov/search/product.aspx?ABBR=ADA037212
Following the clues on that page, I found the following:
http://infolab.stanford.edu/TR/CSL-TR-76-116.html
ftp://reports.stanford.edu/pub/cstr/reports/csl/tr/76/116/CSL-TR-76-116.pdf
Knock yourselves out!
Rich Alderson
Server Engineer, PDPplanet Project
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
(206) 342-2239
(206) 465-2916 cell
12:26 p.m.
2008/11/26 Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com>:
You can buy hardcopy (fiche or print-on-demand) from
NTIS at
http://www.ntis.gov/search/product.aspx?ABBR=ADA037212
Following the clues on that page, I found the following:
http://infolab.stanford.edu/TR/CSL-TR-76-116.html
ftp://reports.stanford.edu/pub/cstr/reports/csl/tr/76/116/CSL-TR-76-116.pdf
Knock yourselves out!
Well found! I was just about to reply to myself that I'd finally
managed to track it down, too.
I'm wondering whether it'd be feasible to get some kind of simulated
ARPAnet running. It shouldn't be too taxing to build or simulate one
of these host interfaces, but making a whole IMP from scratch would
probably be more work than I'd like. Maybe one could apply BBN's
modifications to SIMH's H316 simulator. The IMP software would be
needed, though... I don't suppose there's a copy of that to be had
anywhere?
Cheers,
Steve
31 Jul
31 Jul
3:34 p.m.
New subject: 1975 IBM Slide Set
Interesting look back on computing in 1975.
http://www.squareamerica.com/ib.htm
Enjoy,
Lee C.
5632
days inactive
5762
days old
11 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
eric940＠gmail.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ethan.dicks＠usap.gov -
lee_courtney＠acm.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
steve＠cosam.org -
tonym＠compusource.net -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com