9 Apr
2002
9 Apr
'02
6:58 a.m.
I'm trying to build a development platform for my Imsai. I've tried various
CP/M emulators but haven't found one I like yet.
Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without running under dos and/or
windows?
Thanks.
9 Apr
9 Apr
10:09 a.m.
I'm trying to build a development platform for my
Imsai. I've tried various
CP/M emulators but haven't found one I like yet.
Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without
running under dos and/or
windows?
Well, usualy this doesn't work, because of the different CPUs
(I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a must, because of about
10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
As a nice give away you also get an 8080 CPU for free. There
have been two solutions AFAIR. One was booting MS-DOS and
starting a bootloader for CP/M80 (a), the other was a CP/M
disguise for MS-DOS (b).
The Bootloader programm loaded an 8080 BIOS which supported
hard MS-DOS Hard disks into memory, did setup the memory
tables for the 8080 and switched into 8080 mode to boot CP/M
from HD. There where several problems regarding disk
storage,
so the system worked only reliable from floppy disks. I heared
also about a Version which booted from almost ordinary CP/M
floppies. All switching code fitted into the PC boot sector.
I never had this version, and I didn't play a lot with the
hard disk version, but I used the other programm (b) for
several years.
You could start CP/M programms right from the MS-DOS command
line, or switch into CP/M command line. The Programm itself
replaced CP/M and redirected all CP/M functions to MS-DOS
functions - thanks to the similarities :) There where even
'utilities' to switch DOS pathes wihile in CP/M, etc. pp.
The performance was quite acceptable (faster than a 8080 at
5 MHz), and you could use almost all PC Hardware.
I used this programm to run CP/M applications for several
years under MS-DOS - I never had the time to redo them for
the PC. I even kept the XT some time as CP/M machine when
I already had an 386. The machine was also equipped with a
screamer add on board, so the CPU was running most of the
time at 8 MHz.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
12:56 p.m.
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10 Apr
10 Apr
5:27 a.m.
> Well, usualy this doesn't work, because of
the different CPUs
> (I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
> boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
> DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
> A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a must,
because of about
> 10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
The problem with the V20 (and the V30, which IIRC is
the '8086' version)
is that you only get the 8080 instruction set. And while CP/M will run on
an 8080, a lot of the more recent CP/M software needs a Z80.
Yep, you're right. It did quite work well with my
software. And IIRC he was talking about software
development for an IMSAI, and that's and 8080, if
not modified with a Z80 CPU board - which again
would be no IMSAI anymore :) So a V20 with the
8080 mode is adequate.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
8:47 a.m.
It can be argued that if it uses code not executable on an 8080, it's not
really CP/M-80 software. If it runs the 8080 that's supposed to be in an
IMSAI, and supports the CP/M/IBM-3740 8" SSSD diskette format, it's close
enough. The problem there is that the IMSAI FDC doesn't, IIRC, use
soft-sectored diskettes.
If you run an 8080-mode V20, you can run a BIOS written in 8086 code, which
may offer considerable advantages over the 8080-only BIOS. What's more, if
you do that, then you can incorporate ISA-bus cards into your S-100 system
with an adapter, which can make development of a comfortable computing
environment much easier. An example might be the video circuitry and
keyboard. If you put an 8-bit ISA monochrome board on an S-100 card, you can
then use the driver code in the PC BIOS (as in the printed listing in the Tech
Ref) and you can use it pretty much independently of the CP/M system BIOS,
since it will be called from the code to which control is transferred whenever
there's a BIOS call. All the CP/M BIOS has to do is call the code that
switches to native mode before interpreting the parameters of the call.
I've looked long and hard at this, having wanted to use a V50 (16-bits,
enhanced execution unit, integrated peripherals, DMAC, PIC, UART) in the same
way. Mounting a couple of 8-bit ISA cards on an S-100 board is quite
straightforward, and the signals seem to work out quite well, too. The
combination I'd use would be an 8-bit monochrome display board and an 8-bit
HDC.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Native CP/M
> Well,
usualy this doesn't work, because of the different CPUs
> (I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
> boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
> DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
> A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a must,
because of about
> 10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
The problem with the V20 (and the V30, which IIRC
is the '8086' version)
is that you only get the 8080 instruction set. And while CP/M will run on
an 8080, a lot of the more recent CP/M software needs a Z80.
Yep, you're right. It did quite work well with my
software. And IIRC he was talking about software
development for an IMSAI, and that's and 8080, if
not modified with a Z80 CPU board - which again
would be no IMSAI anymore :) So a V20 with the
8080 mode is adequate.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
10:20 a.m.
> > > Well, usualy this doesn't work,
because of the different CPUs
> > > (I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
> > > boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
> > > DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
> > > A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a
must, because of about
> > > 10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
> > The problem with the V20 (and the V30, which
IIRC is the '8086' version)
> > is that you only get the 8080 instruction set. And while CP/M will run on
> > an 8080, a lot of the more recent CP/M software needs a Z80.
> Yep, you're right. It did quite work well
with my
> software. And IIRC he was talking about software
> development for an IMSAI, and that's and 8080, if
> not modified with a Z80 CPU board - which again
> would be no IMSAI anymore :) So a V20 with the
> 8080 mode is adequate.
It can be argued that if it uses code not executable
on an 8080, it's not
really CP/M-80 software.
I wouldn't go that far. A Programm can rely on a CPU which is an
enhanced version of a 8080 (read can run unmodifiend 8080 code),
but uses CP/M-80 as operating system is still CP/M-80 software.
I guess the AT is the PC equivalent of a Z80 machine. You still
run the same MS DOS as on an 8088 XT, but some applications may
need a 286 to run.
If you run an 8080-mode V20, you can run a BIOS
written in 8086 code, which
may offer considerable advantages over the 8080-only BIOS. What's more, if
you do that, then you can incorporate ISA-bus cards into your S-100 system
with an adapter, which can make development of a comfortable computing
environment much easier. An example might be the video circuitry and
keyboard. If you put an 8-bit ISA monochrome board on an S-100 card, you can
then use the driver code in the PC BIOS (as in the printed listing in the Tech
Ref) and you can use it pretty much independently of the CP/M system BIOS,
since it will be called from the code to which control is transferred whenever
there's a BIOS call. All the CP/M BIOS has to do is call the code that
switches to native mode before interpreting the parameters of the call.
Jep. that kind of stub code is needed. But wheren't there some problems
when switching back ? It wasn't all easy.
I've looked long and hard at this, having wanted
to use a V50 (16-bits,
enhanced execution unit, integrated peripherals, DMAC, PIC, UART)
As for the enhanced execution parts, the V20 and V50 are the same. Both
are from the CPU part like the 186 - or like the 286 sans virtual adressing.
in the same
way. Mounting a couple of 8-bit ISA cards on an S-100 board is quite
straightforward, and the signals seem to work out quite well, too. The
combination I'd use would be an 8-bit monochrome display board and an 8-bit
HDC.
See, where is the idea of using an S100 bus system and tehn adding ISA
cards ? I'd rather take a XT clone, plug in a V20 and let the hardware
be standard (8 Bit) PC hardware - and MS-DOS as superior BIOS (Well, in
fact I belive MS-DOS is still one of the best, if not the best bootloader
avbailable).
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
2:45 p.m.
see below, plz.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Native CP/M
My first PC had a 10 MHz 80186 as its CPU, though it was an XT architecture.
It easily outperformed the early (6 MHz) PC/AT types, though I'm not sure why.
Well, I said it could be argued. I didn't say you'd agree. It's just
a
question of how you define things. However, if it won't run on any machine
that can run the OS, there's a problem. Now, the V20 should run the OS just
fine, and should, actually have just as much trouble with Z80 instructions as
an 8080 would.
True, but though it wasn't easy, once accomplished, the time penalty for it
would be made up in increased performance in the BIOS.
The '286 didn't inherently support VM as did the '386, BTW. It did
have
memory management, but only in a primitive way. It wasn't as primitive as the
already clumsy segmented architecture of the 8086 family.
I wouldn't do that to cook up a replica of an old system, but I would to
create a development tool with which to work up software for an Imsai or other
old-timer. and, speaking of old-timers, do you know whether the V20 does the
"address mirror" thing common to 8080's, where the low address byte appears
on
the high address bus during I/O cycles? I've got a couple of old S-100 boards
that rely on that for some of their functions.
> > >
Well, usualy this doesn't work, because of the different CPUs
> > > (I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
> > > boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
> > > DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
> > > A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines
a must, because of about
> > > 10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
> > > The problem with the V20 (and the V30, which IIRC is the '8086'
version)
> > > is that you only get the 8080
instruction set. And while CP/M will run
on
> > an
8080, a lot of the more recent CP/M software needs a Z80.
> Yep, you're right. It did quite work
well with my
> software. And IIRC he was talking about software
> development for an IMSAI, and that's and 8080, if
> not modified with a Z80 CPU board - which again
> would be no IMSAI anymore :) So a V20 with the
> 8080 mode is adequate.
It can be argued that if it uses code not
executable on an 8080, it's not
really CP/M-80 software.
I wouldn't go that far. A Programm can rely on a CPU which is an
enhanced version of a 8080 (read can run unmodifiend 8080 code),
but uses CP/M-80 as operating system is still CP/M-80 software.
I guess the AT is the PC equivalent of a Z80 machine. You still
run the same MS DOS as on an 8088 XT, but some applications may
need a 286 to run.
> If you run an 8080-mode V20, you can run a BIOS written in 8086 code,
which
> may offer considerable advantages over the
8080-only BIOS. What's more,
if
> you do that, then you can incorporate ISA-bus
cards into your S-100 system
> with an adapter, which can make development of a comfortable computing
> environment much easier. An example might be the video circuitry and
> keyboard. If you put an 8-bit ISA monochrome board on an S-100 card, you
can
> then use the driver code in the PC BIOS (as in
the printed listing in the
Tech
> Ref) and you can use it pretty much independently
of the CP/M system BIOS,
> since it will be called from the code to which control is transferred
whenever
there's a
BIOS call. All the CP/M BIOS has to do is call the code that
switches to native mode before interpreting the parameters of the call.
Jep. that kind of stub code is needed. But wheren't there some problems
when switching back ? It wasn't all easy.
I've looked long and hard at this, having
wanted to use a V50 (16-bits,
enhanced execution unit, integrated peripherals, DMAC, PIC, UART)
As for the enhanced execution parts, the V20 and V50 are the same. Both
are from the CPU part like the 186 - or like the 286 sans virtual adressing.
> in the same
> way. Mounting a couple of 8-bit ISA cards on an S-100 board is quite
> straightforward, and the signals seem to work out quite well, too. The
> combination I'd use would be an 8-bit monochrome display board and an
8-bit
HDC.
See, where is the idea of using an S100 bus system and then adding ISA
cards ? I'd rather take a XT clone, plug in a V20 and let the hardware
be standard (8 Bit) PC hardware - and MS-DOS as superior BIOS (Well, in
fact I belive MS-DOS is still one of the best, if not the best bootloader
available).
I personally never learned to like CP/M-86, so it doesn't interest me. I do,
however, like the notion of running the very fast 8080 internal to the V50 at
8-16 MHz, with its 16-bit data bus, just to hot-rod the OS. What's more,
interfacing an IDE drive would suddenly become utterly trivial. It wouldn't
even interest me a little bit to run CP/M 86 on the same platform.
I won't wander off into the argument over whether MSDOS is actually
"better"
than CP/M. However, if you're running a PC, then I think MSDOS, which was
designed for it is the OS you should use. If you want to run CP/M on a PC, I
still favor CP/M-80 via an emulator over running CP/M 86 on a PC. For one
thing, it offends me that the "better" hardware running the "better"
software
was actually slower than comparable Z80 hardware running the CP/M-80. That's
why it took so long for me to move to a PC. I couldn't justify spending
nearly $5k (which was what a PC/XT with a 50 MB hard disk cost back then) only
to have it run at 75% or less the speed of my already familiar and functional
CP/M box with that size hard disk.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
11 Apr
11 Apr
7:21 a.m.
> > > > > Well, usualy this doesn't
work, because of the different CPUs
> > > > > (I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
> > > > > boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
> > > > > DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
> > > > > A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a must, because of about
> > > > > 10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
My first PC had a 10 MHz 80186 as its CPU, though it
was an XT architecture.
It easily outperformed the early (6 MHz) PC/AT types, though I'm not sure why.
Of course it should. The 186 core is exactly the same core as the
real mode pert of a 286. CPI (clock per instruction) numbers are
exactly the same. So a 8 MHz 186 (as used in the PC-D) outperforms
a 6 MHz 286 as used in the original AT by 25% - in fact, when the
idiots at SIEMENS switched for standard PC architecture, their first
machine was a 8MHz 286 ... and they had quite a problem to explain
to their customers why they should buy the new machine ... so the
ver next (within just a few weeks) was a 10 and then a 12 MHz
version :)
> > there's a BIOS call. All the CP/M BIOS
has to do is call the code that
> > switches to native mode before interpreting the parameters of the call.
> Jep. that kind of stub code is needed. But wheren't there some problems
> when switching back ? It wasn't all easy.
True, but though it wasn't easy, once
accomplished, the time penalty for it
would be made up in increased performance in the BIOS.
Hmm. as long as we talk floppies and other regular I/O there is almost
no difference between an 8080 BIOS, and a 8088 BIOS. Transferrates
are the same. at 4.77 MHz the CPU is waiting anyway for the disk
to turn. To me the real advantage is to use all kinds of standard
MS-DOS drivers for various hardware and present them so the CP/M
programm as standard devices. Of course including the usage of
features where CP/M has no idea of - like sub directories.
I've looked long and hard at this, having wanted
to use a V50 (16-bits,
enhanced execution unit, integrated peripherals, DMAC, PIC, UART)
As for the
enhanced execution parts, the V20 and V50 are the same. Both
are from the CPU part like the 186 - or like the 286 sans virtual adressing. > > in the same
> > way. Mounting a couple of 8-bit ISA cards on an S-100 board is quite
> > straightforward, and the signals seem to work out quite well, too. The
> > combination I'd use would be an 8-bit monochrome display board and an
> > 8-bit HDC.
> See, where is the idea of using an S100 bus
system and then adding ISA
> cards ? I'd rather take a XT clone, plug in a V20 and let the hardware
> be standard (8 Bit) PC hardware
I wouldn't do that to cook up a replica of an old
system, but I would to
create a development tool with which to work up software for an Imsai or other
old-timer. and, speaking of old-timers, do you know whether the V20 does the
"address mirror" thing common to 8080's, where the low address byte appears
on
the high address bus during I/O cycles? I've got a couple of old S-100 boards
that rely on that for some of their functions.
Nop, it doesn't. The V20 bus is a strict 8088 inplementation, and as such
in no way related to the 8080 Bus. Also when building a new old system,
I'd use a V30 or V50 (as you suggested) which offers a 16 Bit bus - and
then of course use 16 Bit I/O cards (HD etc.) to speed up operation (we
had a lightning 8080 in mind, hadn't we ?). This is especialy true when
useing a ATA Disk drive - 16 Bit data transfer is quite a runner. Since
_classic_ S100 is an 8 Bit bus, connectng anny Hardware, beside some
maybe serial is quite useless - One exception is eventualy to drive some
hardware where you are just developing 8080 rivers for (to use in your
classic target system).
Again, the last feature can still be acomplishend by a ISA to S100
interface. So no special hardware but a XT (maybe a fast, 10 MHz XT :)
and the S100 Interface.
> and MS-DOS as superior BIOS (Well, in
> fact I belive MS-DOS is still one of the best, if not the best bootloader
> available).
I personally never learned to like CP/M-86, so it
doesn't interest me. I do,
however, like the notion of running the very fast 8080 internal to the V50 at
8-16 MHz, with its 16-bit data bus, just to hot-rod the OS. What's more,
interfacing an IDE drive would suddenly become utterly trivial. It wouldn't
even interest me a little bit to run CP/M 86 on the same platform.
I won't wander off into the argument over whether
MSDOS is actually "better"
than CP/M. However, if you're running a PC, then I think MSDOS, which was
designed for it is the OS you should use. If you want to run CP/M on a PC, I
still favor CP/M-80 via an emulator over running CP/M 86 on a PC. For one
thing, it offends me that the "better" hardware running the "better"
software
was actually slower than comparable Z80 hardware running the CP/M-80. That's
why it took so long for me to move to a PC. I couldn't justify spending
nearly $5k (which was what a PC/XT with a 50 MB hard disk cost back then) only
to have it run at 75% or less the speed of my already familiar and functional
CP/M box with that size hard disk.
I guess we are just talking without listening. My point was jsut that
MS-DOS makes a great base for whatever project - like a bootloader.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
10 Apr
10 Apr
1:03 p.m.
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2:19 p.m.
New subject: pdp11/83 rsx11m+ system, lots of questions!
Hi all,
it's time for me to get to grips with this 11/83 system I got many years ago.
It has a fuji 2246E ESDI HDD hung off an emulex QD21 MSCP controller.
The hard drive is starting to show its age and is making worrying clunk
noises & spin down-up restarts occasionally (have to say that the ESDI disks
had appeared far more reliable than the RD5x drives in my BA123 MicroVAX-II
system, both of which are now bricks)
How easy are replacement ESDI disks to come by?
I think I should image the RSX11M+ system that is on the 11/83 disk (I
restored it from some magtape backups some years ago from an 11/93 system I
was using then but I have no working 9track drives around any more :(
I either need to re-learn MACRO-11 and RSX11M+ programming skills (online
manuals anywhere?) or have some kind person throw me some code to upline dump
every sector from the disk...
Would be nice if I could then use this image under an emulator!
I know that this RSX11M+ sysgen didn't include support for TK50 tapes, alas,
else I could put a M7546 controller in and do an image dump (if I could
remember how to drive BRU that is). And I don't have the 11M+ install tapes
any more. Unless there is a way to re sysgen support for MU (I think that's
TK50 device name?) on the installed system?
sorry to ramble on :)
thanks for any help,
greg
8:42 p.m.
see below, plz.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Native CP/M
Certainly not ... it's AT software.
It can be argued that if it uses code not executable on an 8080, it's not
really CP/M-80 software. If it runs the 8080 that's supposed to be in an
And so by analogy any software that runs on a 286 or above is not 'PC
software', right...
Now admittedly I've moaned that 'for IBM compatibles' should mean it'll
run on an 8088 with 640K of RAM and either an MDA or CGA card, but these
days that's unlikely to be the case :-(
What? You mean it won't run on a 7090?
-tony
11 Apr
11 Apr
3:34 p.m.
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12 Apr
12 Apr
1:17 a.m.
On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
I've often been tempted to complain that the PC product I've just bought
doesn't work with my 370-compatible. After all, that box is compatible
with _an_ IBM system. :-)
IBM-compatible with DOS used to mean compatible with IBM mainframes
running DOS/VSE. *sigh*
Peace... Sridhar
Now admittedly I've moaned that 'for IBM
compatibles' should mean it'll
run on an 8088 with 640K of RAM and either an MDA or CGA card, but these
days that's unlikely to be the case :-(
What? You mean it won't run on a 7090? 
10 Apr
10 Apr
10:56 a.m.
New subject: NEC V-20 was: Native CP/M
I have been meaning to pick up a V-20 for my Zenith ZFA-161 for some time
mainly for the speed-up without knowing about the V-20s CPM capabilities.
The luggable 161 has a passive backplane and I always thought you had to
get a CPM card for it. This clarifies things.
It seems you can also use it on a PCjr and DEC Rainbow, and I imagine any
8088 box.
Among my archived stuff I also found a program from a one-man operation
called Micro Computing Assoc. which it appears is now defunct. It has all
the operating codes and specs for the V-20. It describes how it booted in
Native 8088 or CPM Emulation. It would seem fairly trivial to switch modes
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
from what I could see. Unfortunately my programming
capabilities are zilch
except for some assembly I learned in my digital course many
moons ago.
Anyone know where this bootloader may be found or willing to take up the
challenge of writing a small boot loader ? I can send you the V-20 specs
program (actually just some sort of viewer program with a data file).
On the Rainbow I saw mention of either an EPROM mod (it's documented
according to www.old-computers.com) or choosing the OS on start-up. I can't
remember the boot-up choice on my 'bow and it's buried right now.
The Zenith has an excellent monitor program. I'm wondering whether that
would also show a system choice if fitted with the V-20.
The http://www.pcenterprises.com/newbegin.htm upgrade site has info on
the PCjr one.
Lawrence
I'm trying to build a development platform
for my Imsai. I've tried various
CP/M emulators but haven't found one I like yet.
Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without
running under dos and/or
windows?
Well, usualy this doesn't work, because of the different CPUs
(I assume we are talking about CP/M80 - CP/M86 will of course
boot on most classic PCs). The only way beside Emulators under
DOS/Win, and rare coprocessor boards is of course the NEC V20.
A V20 is for all PC/PC-XT machines a must, because of about
10% faster execution (the V20 core is build like the 186/286).
As a nice give away you also get an 8080 CPU for free. There
have been two solutions AFAIR. One was booting MS-DOS and
starting a bootloader for CP/M80 (a), the other was a CP/M
disguise for MS-DOS (b).
The Bootloader programm loaded an 8080 BIOS which supported
hard MS-DOS Hard disks into memory, did setup the memory
tables for the 8080 and switched into 8080 mode to boot CP/M
from HD. There where several problems regarding disk storage,
so the system worked only reliable from floppy disks. I heared
also about a Version which booted from almost ordinary CP/M
floppies. All switching code fitted into the PC boot sector.
I never had this version, and I didn't play a lot with the
hard disk version, but I used the other programm (b) for
several years.
You could start CP/M programms right from the MS-DOS command
line, or switch into CP/M command line. The Programm itself
replaced CP/M and redirected all CP/M functions to MS-DOS
functions - thanks to the similarities :) There where even
'utilities' to switch DOS pathes wihile in CP/M, etc. pp.
The performance was quite acceptable (faster than a 8080 at
5 MHz), and you could use almost all PC Hardware.
I used this programm to run CP/M applications for several
years under MS-DOS - I never had the time to redo them for
the PC. I even kept the XT some time as CP/M machine when
I already had an 386. The machine was also equipped with a
screamer add on board, so the CPU was running most of the
time at 8 MHz.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/ 
1:57 p.m.
New subject: NEC V-20 was: Native CP/M
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
It seems you can also use it on a PCjr and DEC
Rainbow, and I imagine any
8088 box.
Not all.
It would NOT work as an 8088 replacement in a Gavilan (where lower power
consumption would have been a plus)
But at some point, somebody wrote out instructions for some minor
motherboard mods to be able to use it. I don't have those any
more; they're probably in one of the totes of Gavilan stuff that I handed
over to Uncle Roger.
12 Apr
12 Apr
9:06 a.m.
New subject: NEC V-20 was: Native CP/M
Re:
n Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
It (NEC V-20) would work replacing the 8088 in an HP 150 ... did that, wrote an
article on it (for "The HP Chronicle"). Still have that HP 150 somewhere.
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
It seems you
can also use it on a PCjr and DEC Rainbow, and I imagine any
8088 box.
Not all.
It would NOT work as an 8088 replacement in a Gavilan (where lower power
consumption would have been a plus) 
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:02 p.m.
I know that this is not exactly what you asked...
but, there is no reason that you have to develop
CP/M under CP/M. If you like linux, the ASxxxx
cross assemblers from Alan Baldwin build and run
just fine.
1:38 p.m.
Don Caprio writes:
I'm trying to build a development platform for my
Imsai.
I've tried various CP/M emulators but haven't found one I like yet.
Have you tried MyZ80 by Simeon Cran ?
It's very clean and tight.
I've run it in true MSDOS as well as inside DOSemu for Linux.
If you can't find it, I'm sure I have it kicking around somewhere.
3:23 p.m.
I second the request!
I'd love to get a BIOS for my Imsai, but its a project for another day. A
decent CP/M package would be a great start, but I'd also need some tiny monitor
to get code into the Imsai.
I doubt this is a job for the front panel...
Don Caprio wrote:
I'm trying to build a development platform for my
Imsai. I've tried various
CP/M emulators but haven't found one I like yet.
Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without running under dos and/or
windows?
Thanks.
3:24 p.m.
Why not just build a PROM card? I will happily send you a blank card with
some decoding logic, buffers, and enough wire-wrap space for an EPROM or two
for the cost of postage.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Shannon" <bshannon(a)tiac.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Native CP/M
I second the request!
I'd love to get a BIOS for my Imsai, but its a project for another day. A
decent CP/M package would be a great start, but I'd also need some tiny
monitor
to get code into the Imsai.
I doubt this is a job for the front panel...
Don Caprio wrote:
> I'm trying to build a development platform for my Imsai. I've tried
various
CP/M emulators
but haven't found one I like yet.
Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without running under dos and/or
windows?
Thanks.
8:13 p.m.
Interesting, but nonetheless incredibly timewasting
and pointless idea: get an old XT clone with the BIOS
and the 4 blank sockets for BASIC. Write a BIOS
extension chipset in 4 2716's or less. This would be a
great deal of work, though.
You can do this same sort of thing even today if you
have a junky (or not)network card with the net boot
EPROM socket (almost always a 2716/32/64 or similar).
The code doesn't have to have anything to do with a
network. I actually did something like this many years
ago when I wrote a password protection EPROM for my
XT, unfortunately, I don't have the code anymore, but
as I recall the first two bytes have to be 0x55 0xAA
or something similar, and the chip must checksum to 0.
I wrote the code in assembler, reserved a byte for the
checksum, and wrote a BASIC program (no laughing,
please) to calc the checksum and drop it into the
image.
--- Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote:
Why not just build a PROM card? I will happily send
you a blank card with
some decoding logic, buffers, and enough wire-wrap
space for an EPROM or two
for the cost of postage.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Shannon" <bshannon(a)tiac.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Native CP/M
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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I second the request!
I'd love to get a BIOS for my Imsai, but its a
project for another day. A
decent CP/M package would be a great start, but
I'd also need some tiny
monitor
to get code into the Imsai.
I doubt this is a job for the front panel...
Don Caprio wrote:
> I'm trying to build a development platform for
my Imsai. I've tried
various
> CP/M emulators but haven't found one I
like yet.
>
> Has anyone sucessfully run CP/M on a PC without
running under dos and/or
windows?
Thanks.
8163
days inactive
8166
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20 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
beermat＠bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
caprio＠dcms.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
sieler＠allegro.com -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com -
vance＠ikickass.org -
wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net -
ysgdhio＠yahoo.com