22 Oct
2006
22 Oct
'06
1:45 a.m.
Anybody interested in one of these? Was going to put it on ebay but
thought I'd ask first. It seems to work, too, and comes with the
BASIC manual.
22 Oct
22 Oct
7:39 a.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
Does anyone have any experience running home computers, Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD TV's.
Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with the
composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and black
and white monitors and use a modern solution.
Roger
11:19 a.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
At 07:39 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
Does anyone have any experience running home computers,
Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD TV's.
Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with the
composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and
black and white monitors and use a modern solution.
Roger
I recently bought a Samsung Syncmaster 730MW which
will operate as a standard definition TV set, a video monitor, or a
computer monitor. Cost in Canada about $ 600.00. I haven't tried it
with any old computers, but they should operate with either the
composite video input, or the tv channel 3 input. I doubt if the
quality would be any better than a proper CRT monitor.
Cheers
Charlie Fox
Charles E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario
519-254-4991 N8Y 3J8
www.chasfoxvideo.com
3:19 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
On 10/23/06, roger pugh <rogpugh at mac.com> wrote:
Does anyone have any experience running home
computers, Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD TV's.
Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with the
composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and black
and white monitors and use a modern solution.
I haven't tried anything as modern as a C-64, but an Elf w/CDP1861
will *not* work on one (nor on many CRTs made in the past 15 years)
because it isn't really "spot on" NTSC video - it's close, but only
close enough for old analog monitors.
From my experience, any display new enough to have
heavily integrated
components for locking onto the video does not like the output of
the
standard 1861 circuit (as seen in the original Popular Electronics
series on the 1802, the RCA reference design for the 1861, the Elf II,
the COSMAC VIP, the Spare Time Gizmos Elf2000, etc). I have had lack
of success with modern LCD monitors w/NTSC input, Apple 5" CRTs for
the Apple IIc, and a wide variety of recently-made displays. I have
had total success with B&W CRTs over 20 years old.
OTOH, for something slightly newer than an 1861, such as your examples
of the C-64, etc., I'd expect them to work with modern video hardware.
-ethan
3:44 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
Thanks Ethan and Charles.
Nothing i have is older than Apple II, trash-80, or video genie. I
should have specified PAL as i'm on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
Although NTSC is also relevant for coco3 and others to use. Higher
picture quality is not an issue with me but space is. Houses here in
south east england are a bit smaller than average.
According to the wife i have way too many beige/black boxes (computers)
and TV's (monitors). | was hoping an autotunning lcd tv with various
inputs will replace a few monitors leaving me more desk space.
Roger
6:21 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
Does anyone have any experience running home computers, Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD TV's.
Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with the
composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and black
and white monitors and use a modern solution.
Not really what you're asking, but I suspect the technology is similar :
I recently needed to show the output of an HP71 handheld computer to a
small audience, and I found that a borrowed video projector (which could
accept SVGA and composite video inputs) could display the composite
output of HP's 80 column video interface (which is a fairly normal
6845-based design, and which outputs composite monochrome video at RS-170
rates).
The only thing was it was best to tell the projector that it was getting
'NTSC' video rather than letting it autodetect. Maybe it was the absense
of the colourburst or something, but it sometimes got a bit confused.
Mu guess, without trying it [1] is that a modern LCD TV would have no
problems with home computer output.
[1] Personally, I'd rather have a CRT-based monitor that I can understand
and repair than an LCD thing full of big ASICs.
-tony
Roger
23 Oct
23 Oct
12:11 a.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
On Oct 22, 2006, at 4:39 AM, roger pugh wrote:
Does anyone have any experience running home
computers, Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD
TV's. Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with
the composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and
black and white monitors and use a modern solution.
For the most part, if you purchase a TV that has a "composite" video
input (you can identify this by the one [yellow] plug for video and
the two plugs [white and red] for audio), you should have no problem
using a composite video cable from a Commodore 64.. that is, a cable
that plugs in to the multi-pin DIN connector (if I remember right,
the 64 used an 8-pin connector that was similar to the VIC-20 and
Atari 800 5-pin connector, with extra signals [if memory serves, some
kind of pre-SVideo Y/C kind of thing that only Commodore's monitors
supported]).
On the Apple ][ series, you should be able to take the 40-column
video out and run it directly to the same yellow composite video
connector.
As far as RF modulated video goes, if it'll tune Channel 3 analog, it
should have no problems. My HDTV set's built in analog tuner can
handle just about everything I've ever plugged into it just fine.
Note that I've casually observed that a lot of older hardware has
varying quality of the RF output... I have an Atari Video Music box
where the RF out appears to be soft, and I had to purchase an analog
video amplifier. Note that this even breaks on a $80 Toshiba 13"
NTSC glass tube set as well, so it's not just a "modern set problem."
RGB video, like the kind used on the Apple //gs and the Commodore
128, is another issue entirely. You're not going to get it working
on any TV without some work (I know the C128's RGB port would be
particularly nasty). You're not going to get rid of the dedicated
monitors for these machines. I keep a CBM 1084S monitor around just
for this purpose.
It is also worth noting that a lot of stuff out there uses old
"analog" composite video. Check the toy department.. there's lots of
emulated (and in the case of the Atari 2600, hackable to even run the
original cartridges) classic and 16-bit era console game hardware
that uses the same connectors.
12:58 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
On Monday 23 October 2006 00:11, Chris Sullivan wrote:
For the most part, if you purchase a TV that has a
"composite" video
input (you can identify this by the one [yellow] plug for video and
the two plugs [white and red] for audio), you should have no problem
using a composite video cable from a Commodore 64.. that is, a cable
that plugs in to the multi-pin DIN connector (if I remember right,
the 64 used an 8-pin connector that was similar to the VIC-20 and
Atari 800 5-pin connector, with extra signals [if memory serves, some
kind of pre-SVideo Y/C kind of thing that only Commodore's monitors
supported]).
Some of the early c64 boards also used a 5-pin DIN connectot. You could plug
a 5-pin plug into either the 5- or 8-pin sockets and it would still work,
though.
<...>
RGB video, like the kind used on the Apple //gs and
the Commodore
128, is another issue entirely. You're not going to get it working
on any TV without some work (I know the C128's RGB port would be
particularly nasty). You're not going to get rid of the dedicated
monitors for these machines. I keep a CBM 1084S monitor around just
for this purpose.
At least on the 128 you could get monochrome video out of that connector.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
2:31 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Why not? Seems like RGB is the second simplest baseband video
connection you can make to a modern TV. I even have a VGA-to-RGB cable
that I made where the clever bit is a transistor and two resistors to
combine the sync, and a "strange" modeline that the ATi chipset in my PC
understands.
Gordon.
RGB video,
like the kind used on the Apple //gs and the Commodore
128, is another issue entirely. You're not going to get it working
on any TV without some work (I know the C128's RGB port would be
particularly nasty). You're not going to get rid of the dedicated
monitors for these machines. I keep a CBM 1084S monitor around just
for this purpose.
At least on the 128 you could get monochrome video out of that connector.
5:32 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
On Oct 22, 2006, at 4:39 AM, roger pugh wrote:
I would be very suprised if any large-ish LCD TV sold in the UK didn't
have at least one SCART socket (in fact I read somewhere that a SCART
socket was a legal requirement on all TVs >14" diagonal, but I am not
sure I believe that!).
The SCART socekt is a 21 pin connector that caries composite video in and
out, stereo audio in and out, RGB in (sometimes also S-video, separate Y
and C, using 2 of thse pins), etc. You can easily get plugs and cables to
fit it (in my experience, the ones from the local 'pound shop', when
they have them in stock, are no better or worse than the ones from
electronics shops at 5 times the price!)
Does anyone have any experience running home
computers, Commodores,
Sinclair's, Apple II's and the like on one of these modern LCD
TV's. Can they lock on to the cheap modulator signals or work with
the composite or RGB.
I'm thinking of getting rid of a bulky tv set and various rgb and
black and white monitors and use a modern solution.
For the most part, if you purchase a TV that has a "composite" video
input (you can identify this by the one [yellow] plug for video and
the two plugs [white and red] for audio), you should have no problem using a composite video cable from a Commodore 64..
that is, a cable
that plugs in to the multi-pin DIN connector (if I remember right,
IMHO, if you're going to mess around with classic computers you pretty
much have to be able ot make up cables.
the 64 used an 8-pin connector that was similar to the
VIC-20 and
Atari 800 5-pin connector, with extra signals [if memory serves, some
kind of pre-SVideo Y/C kind of thing that only Commodore's monitors
supported]).
Has anyoe tried feeding Commodore's Y and C into an Svideo socket? if it
doesn't work, why not?
-tony
24 Oct
24 Oct
2:20 a.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
Tony Duell wrote:
Has anyoe tried feeding Commodore's Y and C into
an Svideo socket? if it
doesn't work, why not?
I have read that it does. If it's legal Y/C then I don't see why it
wouldn't. I don't have a Commodore to test it, though.
Gordon.
4:12 p.m.
New subject: LCD TV's with Home computers
On Oct 23, 2006, at 11:20 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Tony Duell wrote:
It is legal Y/C, and it does work, at least on my five-year-old Wega
XBR.
I have also used (am using at this minute) a Commodore 2002 as a
studio monitor with Y/C, on all manner of "normal" equipment
including Hi8, SVHS, Laserdisc, and DVD.
ok
bear
Has anyoe tried feeding Commodore's Y and C
into an Svideo socket?
if it doesn't work, why not?
I have read that it does. If it's legal Y/C then I don't see why
it wouldn't. I don't have a Commodore to test it, though.
6481
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6483
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11 comments
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participants (9)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bear＠typewritten.org -
cfox1＠cogeco.ca -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
feedle＠feedle.net -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
rogpugh＠mac.com -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
shawn.t.rutledge＠gmail.com