Hi, Errm, that's the world I got OUT of in 1991 when the company I was then working for was taken over and shut down. Sadly, since then, the only embedded systems jobs I've seen advertised in the UK have been from companies like Motorola and require C/C++ experience (and as you mention, Java!). Not to mention they'd require me to move halfway across the country to areas I wouldn't want to live in (due to the cost of living down there). Amen to that. Talking of stupidity, the company that took us over did so, at least in part, because our products were far more technically advanced than theirs (we designed our new products from scratch, they just regurgitated the same (by then) 10 year old design ad nauseum with minor tweaks). They wanted our design team....what they actually got was our technical director. Those of us who'd actually done the design work were sacked shortly after the production department (needless to say, the sales department were the first up against the wall). <A little later> Spurred on by writing this message I went and had a look at said company's website, alas it appears *NOTHING* has changed! They're still selling their original, now 27(!) year old, design in a more contemporary housing with updated software. Not to mention that at least 2 of their other products (including their "most popular" terminal) are the ones I worked on 16 years ago (although again with upgraded housings and software)....well, at least I did something right, once.... ;-) TTFN - Pete.