19 May
2017
19 May
'17
4:49 a.m.
On 19 May 2017 at 13:36, Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com> wrote:
Nope. Take a trip to Amazon and look at just how much
power this stuff
actually consumes. And, if you go back to the days when we started
running this stuff in our homes, compare the draw of a QBUS PDP-11 to
a TV with a picture tube, standard incandescent lights, a refridgerator,
window air conditioners, etc. Our toys draw much less power than most
people think. Heck, I have seen modern PC's (you know, the kind gamers
use) that draw more power and are frequently run 24/7.
I wonder if this is one of those USA-vs-Rest-of-world differences.
I think I have seen a running PDP-11 twice in my life, and it was the
same one -- a machine I had to get exchanging files with Mac clients
acting as terminal emulators, in about 1989 in my first job. It was
already very old kit by then. I've no idea how much power they draw.
Window air conditioners are another thing I've never seen,
incandescent lights are now a rarity in Europe, hoarded by some
old-timers -- i.e. older than me, at a hair under 50. I've never
bought a new TV set with a CRT, either. In fact most of my CRT
monitors over my whole home computing time period -- nearly 40y --
were cast-offs, hand-me-downs, or bought 2nd hand.
I've bought a few 2nd hand LCD monitors now, because I like big ones.
(Oo er missus, etc.) I'm currently running a 23" + a 24" on a 2011 Mac
mini with a 1987 Apple Extended keyboard. All bought used. New kit is
for suckers.
So I don't look into power consumption -- used price is more important
to me, TBH. Probably bad of me, but wotthehell archie wotthehell.
--
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19 May
19 May
9:07 a.m.
On 05/19/2017 07:49 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On 19 May 2017 at 13:36, Bill Gunshannon
<bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nope. Take a trip to Amazon and look at just how much power this stuff
> actually consumes. And, if you go back to the days when we started
> running this stuff in our homes, compare the draw of a QBUS PDP-11 to
> a TV with a picture tube, standard incandescent lights, a refridgerator,
> window air conditioners, etc. Our toys draw much less power than most
> people think. Heck, I have seen modern PC's (you know, the kind gamers
> use) that draw more power and are frequently run 24/7.
Running a BBS I can
think of several machines that re power frugal in the
DEC realm alone.
Vt180 it a Vt100 power needs plus maybe 80W for the VT180 board and
four Floppies. The total is under 120W based on an old measurement.
A PDP-11 Qbus machine with a 11/23 cpu and a RL02 or a RQDX/Hard disk
was enough for running TSX and a few people timeshare in an office then
a BBS with one modem would be under utilized.
A microVAX3100/20 with two 420MB disks would do that easy at under
150W.
Remember a BBS with 1 modem is runnnning at less (back then) than
1200 baud (120CPS!). Name one CPU that can't grab one byte and
act on it in 8.333mS? The rest is enough storage to do a useful library
(download and upload programs, and some form of mail and forum/board).
I wonder if this is one of those USA-vs-Rest-of-world
differences.
Likely and also time frame. PDP-11s had their peak life just like PDP-8s
and VAXen.
I think I have seen a running PDP-11 twice in my life, and it was the
same one -- a machine I had to get exchanging files with Mac clients
acting as terminal emulators, in about 1989 in my first job. It was
already very old kit by then. I've no idea how much power they draw.
The power
draw from from the micro level to the monster level.
For example a PDP11/150 was desktop and it plus the VT100 was maybe
150W, the 11/70 with a few RK07s and RM disks likely reuired a 230V 30A
line or more.
Most of the Qbus 11s (LSI-11 though 11/73) in single BA11 or BA23 box
were in the sub 300 W range as that was the limit of the power supply.
The disks for them could be PC class (early 80s) 5.25" or RL02 and RX02.
My rack system with RX02, rl02, RD52x2 and 4mb ram and 11/73 cpu is
under 420W(460 with VT330) at 120V. My former towerbox Xeon4/3ghz
with 4g of ram and a 160gb disk ran at 220W (24/7) the LCD added another
55W as a comparison.
I fired up the MicroPDP11 with a 11/23+ and 4mb ram, RD52 and floppy
and a VT320 and the KillaWatt was under 215W for the pair.
For comparison, my current desktop is a Mintbox and its maybe under
full load 12W (with usb keyboard and mouse). The display dwarfs it.
Window air conditioners are another thing I've
never seen,
incandescent lights are now a rarity in Europe, hoarded by some
old-timers -- i.e. older than me, at a hair under 50. I've never
bought a new TV set with a CRT, either. In fact most of my CRT
monitors over my whole home computing time period -- nearly 40y --
were cast-offs, hand-me-downs, or bought 2nd hand.
Led lights, an early adopter as
I'm cheap(frugal) so between replacement
cost, heat load in the summer, and power consumption LEDs are cheap.
I use incandescent for the times when color temperature is important
and LEDs can't cut it.
Then again I power my ham station off grid with 400W of solar and
150Ah of NiCd (industrial) battery.
CRT monitors I still have a few and one TV as its rarely used but
excellent quality. I use terminals like Vt100, Vt180, Vt320 and even
VT1200 based on need or convenience.
By doing that I have the luxury of powering things like older computers
off of savings.
I've bought a few 2nd hand LCD monitors now,
because I like big ones.
(Oo er missus, etc.) I'm currently running a 23" + a 24" on a 2011 Mac
mini with a 1987 Apple Extended keyboard. All bought used. New kit is
for suckers.
If you can buy it its obsolete, by used or cheap. Also used is a good
deal
by time one buys it the reliability of that model is known.
So I don't look into power consumption -- used
price is more important
to me, TBH. Probably bad of me, but wotthehell archie wotthehell.
1:14 p.m.
On 5/19/2017 10:07 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
Remember a BBS with 1 modem is runnnning at less (back
then) than
1200 baud (120CPS!). Name one CPU that can't grab one byte and
act on it in 8.333mS? The rest is enough storage to do a useful library
(download and upload programs, and some form of mail and forum/board).
Well I can think of one, but it can't be named on this list.
Ben.
2776
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allisonportable＠gmail.com -
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