24 Apr
2000
24 Apr
'00
12:55 p.m.
I have a bajangle[1] of VMS CD's (from a friend)
but only one boots
(labeled VMS 7.1 Binaries)... It seems to boot VMS (for the very little
I've ever seen of VMS -- Why didn't I pay attention over the last few
years... ;-) but it's a very stripped VMS as the only command that seems to
exist is the "b" command, which seems to invoke some form of backup command
that can take a "/IMAGE" parameter that I can't seem to get working...
Ok I don't have the paper handy but thats the disk you want. the bootable
image is standalone backup and is used to copy and start the real install.
Does VMS install from a backup type file, or do I not
have any actual
install CD's?
Yes, from a backup. Sounds like you have the right disk. All you needs is a
license and instructions. The license see the DECUS.org site for and also
check Montagar.com as they supply a $30 VMS 7.1 cd for those that don't
have.
BTW, main disk is DKA0, subdisk is DKA200, floppy is
DKA500, and CDROM is
DKB400.
Ok... DKAnnn means SCSI A disk 0->7 as in 0, 100, 200...700. DKBnnn
is the second scsi bus.
The typical drive IDs are any other than 6 (thats the vax). What device is
the default boot is based on a SET command. You can have no default set in
which case it powers up to the system command prompt, making and addressable
device (disk, tape, network) bootable using the correct >>> B {device}.
Ultrix seems to run fine from DKA200, but seems kinda
slow... (of course,
this is in comparison to running Linux on a dual-processor P2-350 w/256Meg
RAM, but in these days of instant gratification... ;-)
Well keeping mind the 3100 you have was fast when 386dx33s and 486DX33s
were the hot stuff. You'll find that in some ways it's faster than that
dual P350!
Just load it down and then ask it do do a directory...
BTW, when the machine boots (to the ROM monitor) I get
the F...E...D...
etc.. with all dots until it gets to (IIRC, machine home, me work):
3_..2_..1?..
and then spits out what appears to be a memory address. Ethernet's not
Fairly normal selftest (like PC post). There is a list somewhere for wehat
that means. Also the boot monitor has a fairly long list of commands for
doing things like INITing disks and such. Check some of the links at the
NetBSD VAX-port
area. The 3100 series is pretty popular and lots of them around.
hooked up -- any chance one of those is the network
interface saying
"Hello... Anybody out there?" and any speculation as if the machine might
have some heartburn?
Yes, Sounds like that one has the ESA0 (eithernet) set to boot using DEC
MOP protocal. Yes, once VMS is on it you can have that one MOP load
another(or even install to it!)!
Allison
24 Apr
24 Apr
3:49 p.m.
Rumor has it that allisonp may have mentioned these words:
I've already learned a bunch! Thanks!
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
Ok I don't have the paper handy but thats the disk
you want. the bootable
image is standalone backup and is used to copy and start the real install.
Ok. I'll check out the sites that Zane sent me to see if I can find the
correct parameters...
[snip]
Sounds like you have the right disk. All you needs is
a
license and instructions. The license see the DECUS.org site for and also
check Montagar.com as they supply a $30 VMS 7.1 cd for those that don't
have.
I just applied for the DECUS basic membership (for the license) and maybe
after summer I can afford the support membership (building a house this
year - have to conserve all the money I can...)
Ok... DKAnnn means SCSI A disk 0->7 as in 0, 100,
200...700. DKBnnn
is the second scsi bus.
That's what I figgered... ;-)
The typical drive IDs are any other than 6 (thats the
vax). What device is
the default boot is based on a SET command. You can have no default set in
which case it powers up to the system command prompt, making and addressable
device (disk, tape, network) bootable using the correct >>> B {device}.
Yes, actually, I *really* like not having a default - makes a nice, neat
bootmanager whether you want to boot from HD # 1, HD # 2, or CD-ROM...
Well keeping mind the 3100 you have was fast when
386dx33s and 486DX33s
were the hot stuff. You'll find that in some ways it's faster than that
dual P350!
Just load it down and then ask it do do a directory...
I do agree - but the machine (at least for now) won't have a heavy load,
and as I don't have a ton of free time, I want an OS that's a little
snappier... hence my desire to run VMS. ;-)
The 3100 series is pretty popular and lots of them
around.
Yes, I have 4 of them now... ;-)
Allison
And also... rumor has it that healyzh(a)aracnet.com may have mentioned these
words:
That would be the RZ25. IIRC the RZ26 is 1Gb, and the
RZ28 is 2GB (I know
the RZ28 and RZ25 are right).
Well, I've been running DEC equipment now since... Easter. ;-) So I don't
have all the nomenclature mezmerized *just* yet... ;-) However, I did just
snag 2 RZ26's today, so I might swap out the RZ25 for a little more room...
Cool, so far I've only got Ultrix running on a
DECstation. Mainly due to
lack of interest and time. I actually plan on running NetBSD on the
DECstation, but haven't had time to blow away Ultrix :^)
Well, the install was quite painless (better than Win98 by a longshot) but
rather slow due to the slower CDROM and whatnot...
See the following:
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/vbegin.htm
Ah, yes... I wouldn't have been able to guess all the parameters, so I most
certainly appreciate the pointer! :-)
Don't blame you, it is after all one of the top two
OS's out there, the
other being MacOS!
Not to sound like a jerk, but MacOS? I realize it was the first (well,
mass-produced) GUI, etc, etc, etc, but I found it rather deflating &
powerless after cutting my teeth on OS-9...
So is it a CONDIST? Even with the Hobbyist CD's
it's very nice to have a
set of the CD's as there is a lot that is left out!
The person I got the machines from worked for Digital for years before they
got bought by Compaq, and VMS is his favo[u]rite OS. Although one of the
CD's is the freeware CD, I don't think it's the hobbyist set, as there's
11
software CD's in the distribution. Is the hobbyist set marked as such, or
are they indistinguishable from a normal set?
P.S. I might
have asked this once before, but a website or two with online
docs would be *much* appreciated! (I tried the obvious ones, like
www.vms.org and www.decus.org, but I didn't find much in technical info...)
http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/ should be your first choice, the :8000
is very important. This is the OpenVMS documentation site.
For the OpenVMS Hobbyist program http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/
For the FAQ http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm
You might find a little good info at the following also:
http://www.vaxarchive.org
http://www.netbsd.org 
5:05 p.m.
Well, I've been running DEC equipment now since...
Easter. ;-) So I don't
It's the 1GB drive that always gives me trouble!
have all the nomenclature mezmerized *just* yet... ;-)
However, I did just
snag 2 RZ26's today, so I might swap out the RZ25 for a little more room...
It depends on how many layered products you want, and how many 3rd party
programs you want. A RZ25 is actaully fairly roomy. Still I've got my
setup clustered so most of my stuff is on a couple disks.
Not to sound like a jerk, but MacOS? I realize it was
the first (well,
mass-produced) GUI, etc, etc, etc, but I found it rather deflating &
powerless after cutting my teeth on OS-9...
Well, what can I say, I like it because it is so simplistic! Not a lot to
tweak, so I can actually get something done when I'm using it instead of
spending all my time playing with the OS :^) As a result I'm kind of
worried about Mac OS X being to powerful!
I've also found the apps on the Mac to be the most consistent between
programs and even publishers.
I got my first Mac in '95 when Windows '95 came out and I lost faith in
OS/2 (thanks mainly to the horrible quality of the commerical apps such as
Lotus Smartsuite). I quickly came to appreciate how non-Tweakable it is.
Besides if you add 'eXodus' it makes a great front-end to an OpenVMS
cluster!
So is it a
CONDIST? Even with the Hobbyist CD's it's very nice to have a
set of the CD's as there is a lot that is left out!
The person I got the machines from worked for Digital for years before they
got bought by Compaq, and VMS is his favo[u]rite OS. Although one of the
CD's is the freeware CD, I don't think it's the hobbyist set, as there's
11
software CD's in the distribution. Is the hobbyist set marked as such, or
are they indistinguishable from a normal set?
25 Apr
25 Apr
7:05 a.m.
Rumor has it that healyzh(a)aracnet.com may have mentioned these words:
So, should I not install it? Or does it give you trouble as it's not big
enough??? ;-)
Well, I've
been running DEC equipment now since... Easter. ;-) So I don't
It's the 1GB drive that always gives me trouble! It depends on how many layered products you want, and
how many 3rd party
programs you want. A RZ25 is actaully fairly roomy. Still I've got my
setup clustered so most of my stuff is on a couple disks.
Well, I want to run DECwindows (for my wifey...) and I want to be able to
program in Basic & maybe C.
[re: MacOS]
I've also found the apps on the Mac to be the most
consistent between
programs and even publishers.
That's true... most apps for WinBlows are pretty consistant too, tho... as
in they consistantly suck... ;-)
Sorry should have been clear, the Hobbyist CD's are
two CD's, one VAX, one
Alpha. It really sounds like you've got a fairly recent (since it's got
OpenVMS V7.1) CONDIST. I assume that most of the disks are labled 1 of 10
and such. I'm also guessing that the Freeware CD is V3. You've got enough
software there to keep you going for *ages*.
Erm... not sure what the Version is on the freeware CD, but I can tell you
that I have the December 1998 distro of VMS 7.1. Erm... and I got it
installed last night!!! ;-)
Now all I need to find is a URL for a quickie command reference to find how
to do the menial stuff... like change directories and whatnot. From DEC's
"cover letter" that was tossed in with my software, I found out how to
mount a CDrom (and I did!) but I couldn't find out how to actually access
the disk. (Well, I had one of those short 12-hour days, and I was quite
tired so after I got VMS installed I only plinked for 5-10 minutes or so
before I shut it down.)
I do have all the documentation on CDrom, but it doesn't do me a hill
o'beans worth if I can't access them! ;-)
(I did find the "Show Mem" command, and was suprised on how economical VMS
was, and it seemed to give quite a bit of info!)
Anyway, thanks again for all the help, and before long there'll be another
DEChead floating around the ranks... ;-)
(BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to process a basic application?)
Thanks again, all!
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
7:43 a.m.
Rumor has it that healyzh(a)aracnet.com may have
mentioned these words:
So, should I not install it? Or does it give you trouble as it's not big
enough??? ;-)
Argh, I'm being unclear again and confusing people. Sorry about that.
By trouble I meant remembering what the proper designation for the drive
is, not that I have problems with them. I say install it.
Well,
I've been running DEC equipment now since... Easter. ;-) So I don't
It's the 1GB drive that always gives me trouble! Erm... not sure what the Version is on the freeware CD,
but I can tell you
that I have the December 1998 distro of VMS 7.1. Erm... and I got it
installed last night!!! ;-)
Foggy brain on my part, but I think it's V3, as I believe V4 was released
with OpenVMS V7.2
Now all I need to find is a URL for a quickie command
reference to find how
to do the menial stuff... like change directories and whatnot. From DEC's
Here is some quick stuff:
set default dka300:[000000] <----the 'root' of the disk dka300:
set default [-] <----back one directory
set default [.somedir] <----move into the somedir dir located under
current dir
set default [bin] <----move to bin dir located under root of
current disk
help <----Help
dir <----directory
Sounds like what you really want is to hit a used bookstore and find a book
on using OpenVMS.
I do have all the documentation on CDrom, but it
doesn't do me a hill
o'beans worth if I can't access them! ;-)
Yeh, need DECwindows running.
(I did find the "Show Mem" command, and was
suprised on how economical VMS
was, and it seemed to give quite a bit of info!)
I know, I"m always amazed by what it can do on a VAX.
Anyway, thanks again for all the help, and before long
there'll be another
DEChead floating around the ranks... ;-)
Good, the more the better!
(BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to process a
basic application?)
No idea.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
12:31 a.m.
I do agree - but the machine (at least for now)
won't have a heavy load,
and as I don't have a ton of free time, I want an OS that's a little
snappier... hence my desire to run VMS. ;-)
I like VMS because it doesn't know what crash is and when you drop an
elephant load on it nothing bad happens other than you wait a bit.
Yes, I have 4 of them now... ;-)
Almost as amny as me. At my peak I have 15 of them(3100s).
Well, the install was quite painless (better than
Win98 by a longshot) but
rather slow due to the slower CDROM and whatnot...
Yes any may only have to do it once, ever.
The person I got the machines from worked for Digital
for years before they
got bought by Compaq, and VMS is his favo[u]rite OS. Although one of the
CD's is the freeware CD, I don't think it's the hobbyist set, as there's
11
software CD's in the distribution. Is the hobbyist set marked as such, or
are they indistinguishable from a normal set?
Ah you got the DECUS freeware CD, great. Wanted one but they ran out of
them.
VMS 7.1 has support for TCP/ip, something to help you exploit them PCs.
Also when you do the install leave in DECwindows as you can use that
with an Xterm. I do that with a vt1200, rather nice being able to connect
to any one of 8 Vaxen from one point.
Allison
5:23 a.m.
Allison wrote:
I like VMS because it doesn't know what crash is
and when you drop an
Not quite true. It will crash if you do something *really* stupid. For
example if you try to cluster a VAX/VMS V5.5 system in with a OpenVMS V7.2
cluster and then unplug the VAX from the cluster becuase it won't boot,
then once you've finished running the commands to de-cluster it and are
running the autogen, and you decided to save a couple seconds and just plug
the ethernet cable back in, BOOM!
Had to go out to the garage and reboot the rest of the cluster that was up
at the time. Moral of the story is when the doc's say you can only cluster
V6.2-V7.2 they're almost right (IIRC, you can fudge it and cluster in a
V6.1 system but not everything will work right).
Ah you got the DECUS freeware CD, great. Wanted one
but they ran out of
them.
DFWUG sells the Freeware CD V4 for $7 which I believe includes shipping.
I've just not gotten around to getting one.
VMS 7.1 has support for TCP/ip, something to help you
exploit them PCs.
Also when you do the install leave in DECwindows as you can use that
with an Xterm. I do that with a vt1200, rather nice being able to connect
to any one of 8 Vaxen from one point.
Cool, I take it you just tell it which system to connect to? I've got a
DECserver 90L+ that lets me do that with a VT420 using LAT. The 90L+ is
nice because it's so small, and you can hook several terminals up to it.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
6:54 a.m.
Not quite true. It will crash if you do something
*really* stupid. For
example if you try to cluster a VAX/VMS V5.5 system in with a OpenVMS V7.2
cluster and then unplug the VAX from the cluster becuase it won't boot,
then once you've finished running the commands to de-cluster it and are
running the autogen, and you decided to save a couple seconds and just plug
the ethernet cable back in, BOOM!
Clinically that is a pathological case. ;) You had to work at it though!
V6.2-V7.2 they're almost right (IIRC, you can
fudge it and cluster in a
V6.1 system but not everything will work right).
Done by the book it's a but more robust.. But then that was the
definition of "supported" VS "it works".
DFWUG sells the Freeware CD V4 for $7 which I believe
includes shipping.
I've just not gotten around to getting one.
Oh good!
Cool, I take it you just tell it which system to
connect to? I've got a
DECserver 90L+ that lets me do that with a VT420 using LAT. The 90L+ is
nice because it's so small, and you can hook several terminals up to it.
It's even nicer when I run the 1200 and VT340(multisession over 1 wire.
With PCs the networking is more like MS networking, though with APACHE
and fileservices going it's nice.
Allison
7:17 a.m.
Allison wrote:
Any other oldtimers remember the 2.x glitch (or was it 3.x) where
putting a TU77 offline and manually rewinding it would MWAIT the
driver or occasionally bugcheck the whole machine and force a reboot...
I once did it with a TU77 which dropped vacuum in mid-real and the
FBI wasn't happy about not being able to use the Tape massbuss for
backups. Took an hour or two of fiddling around with the diag
supervisor and the machine while live -- but somehow I managed
to get the damn thing to come unstuck...
I assume it was the diags kicking bits around in the tape or TM03 --
but I've never been able to figure how I saved getting nailed for
a reboot at the FBI.
I also was supposed to PM the box the day Reagan got shot, but that
was cancelled on me for obvious reasons.
I cleaned the tape heads, read errlog and left.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
I like VMS because it doesn't know what crash
is and when you drop an
Not quite true. It will crash if you do something *really* stupid. For
example if you try to cluster a VAX/VMS V5.5 system in with a OpenVMS V7.2
cluster and then unplug the VAX from the cluster becuase it won't boot,
then once you've finished running the commands to de-cluster it and are
running the autogen, and you decided to save a couple seconds and just plug
the ethernet cable back in, BOOM!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
26 Apr
26 Apr
12:18 p.m.
New subject: Of course... a few more VMS questions... ;-)
Okay... I'm getting accustomed to the VMS directory structure, and have
even installed a few apps from one of the CD's, which (of course) failed
the tail-end of the install due to my not having a DECUS membership number
yet (pending) or VMS hobbyist license (also pending, and will get right
after DECUS gets back to me.)
Now, will that license be good for anything I install as far as software,
or will I have to get a license for every type of program I want to run? (I
sincerely hope the former... ;-) Mainly, I just want to do some C and
BASIC programming for now.
And one other question which I've not found or figured out myself... How do
I get a directory listing of *just the subdirectories*? I've figured out
how to search for a particular filename or extension recursively thru the
subdirectories, but what's the VMS equivalent to DOS's dir /ad or linux's
ls -lAF|grep '/$' ???
Thanks for all the help!
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
12:41 p.m.
New subject: Of course... a few more VMS questions... ;-)
Okay... I'm getting accustomed to the VMS
directory structure, and have
even installed a few apps from one of the CD's, which (of course) failed
the tail-end of the install due to my not having a DECUS membership number
yet (pending) or VMS hobbyist license (also pending, and will get right
after DECUS gets back to me.)
DECUS used to be real good. They reinitialized my old membership
which got dropped (somehow) for inactivity overnight... the next day
I got the licenses off the web. Unfortunately I still haven't gotten
the VaxStation up yet. (too much real work and too much time playing
with the Sun stuff at home lately)...
Of course, they`ve shrunk in size and been dounsized to hell.
The SIG groups got cut back. They got way too political after
Ken Olson left and Palmer came in.
Anyway, I got my package from them with the new ID card in a couple of days
after they got my request.
Now, will that license be good for anything I install
as far as software,
or will I have to get a license for every type of program I want to run? (I
sincerely hope the former... ;-) Mainly, I just want to do some C and
BASIC programming for now.
The license from the hobbyist site will cover the layered apps for
non-commercial use (includsing languages)
And one other question which I've not found or figured out myself... How do
I get a directory listing of *just the subdirectories*? I've figured out
how to search for a particular filename or extension recursively thru the
subdirectories, but what's the VMS equivalent to DOS's dir /ad or linux's
ls -lAF|grep '/$' ???
Boy... it's been too long away from VAX/VMS for this old DEC tech...
12 years is a long time.
Thanks for all the help!
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Of course... a few more VMS questions... ;-)
At 08:18 PM 26-04-00 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote:
And one other question which I've not found or
figured out myself... How do
I get a directory listing of *just the subdirectories*? I've figured out
how to search for a particular filename or extension recursively thru the
subdirectories, but what's the VMS equivalent to DOS's dir /ad or linux's
ls -lAF|grep '/$' ???
What about
$ dir *.dir
or if you want more details
$ dir/size=all/security *.dir
27 Apr
27 Apr
2:51 a.m.
New subject: Of course... a few more VMS questions... ;-)
And one other question which I've not found or
figured out myself... How do
I get a directory listing of *just the subdirectories*? I've figured out
how to search for a particular filename or extension recursively thru the
subdirectories, but what's the VMS equivalent to DOS's dir /ad or linux's
ls -lAF|grep '/$' ???
Try "dir *.dir".
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
8957
days inactive
8960
days old
12 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
allisonp＠world.std.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
Huw.Davies＠kerberos.davies.net.au -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
rivie＠teraglobal.com -
zmerch＠30below.com