17 Feb
2003
17 Feb
'03
12:45 a.m.
The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
17 Feb
17 Feb
1:35 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
Thanks for the tip a good bit of history. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Feldman, Robert" <Robert_Feldman(a)jdedwards.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:42 AM
Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The following link is to the story in the February
16th Chicago Tribune.
Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of
an important event
in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
25 Feb
25 Feb
1:42 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
With all this talk about the CBBS, I expected to hear some
bragging from people who'd actually been on this BBS, back
in the day. I remember logging-in in '78 or '79, via an ASR-33.
- John
3:30 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, John Foust wrote:
With all this talk about the CBBS, I expected to hear
some
bragging from people who'd actually been on this BBS, back
in the day. I remember logging-in in '78 or '79, via an ASR-33.
Been on it?!? Heck, it was a leading cause of why I started my CBBS
system (CBBS/NW - ran for nearly 20 years). That is after I got my third
(expensive for the day) >$100 phone bill due to all the calls to Chicago!
I still have one of my early print outs from the original Chicago system!
1-312-545-8086... yes, I still remember the number... No, you probably
should not call it... <G>
Ward is a great guy. We managed to get together a couple of times over
the years. Never actually met Rany tho... Spoke to him on the phone a
time or two.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
4:50 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
James Willing wrote:
1-312-545-8086... yes, I still remember the number...
No, you probably
should not call it... <G>
Yes the 8086 does date the number. In some ways the BBS system was
better than todays internet was while conectivity was a problem if
you used long distance calls; Most BBS's had lots of duplicated files
and information where todays information is rarely mirrored.
Ben.
1:20 p.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
Yes the 8086 does date the number. In some ways the BBS
system was better
than todays internet was while conectivity was a problem if
you used long distance calls; Most BBS's had lots of duplicated files
and information where todays information is rarely mirrored.
Ahhh.... Gotta love Copyright laws etc.
Of course, The type info that BBS's had is still mirrored on a lot of the
sites that cater to same folks as BBSes did.....
ChriS
17 Feb
17 Feb
2:56 a.m.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote:
The following link is to the story in the February
16th Chicago Tribune. Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Another interesting place to check out is http://www.bbsdocumentary.com
g.
18 Feb
18 Feb
9:08 a.m.
?
The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial port.
WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of
KERMIT??
WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol?
The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or
XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type.
12:12 p.m.
Certainly, Xmodem would be faster than the most generic Kermit since it
uses an 8-bit data path as opposed to the 7-bit path of Kermit. I
usually think of Kermit first when transferring files because there are
so many different implementations. Just about any operating system has
one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit
(the 48 and 49 I think).
Also, unless you have the Ymodem variant or later, I believe you have to
type in file names to the receiving end. Kermit usually can transfer
the file name as part of the transfer.
I have several programs that can use Xmodem, Xmodem-CRC, Ymodem,
Ymodem-1K on Intel MDS systems. Probably can also find some of those
for the PeeCee.
However, I just always think of Kermit first because I don't even have
to think of what operating system or what kind of computer. Kermit will
be available.
That being said, I DO agree with you that it would seem much more
"appropriate" to be using one of Ward's protocols to transfer his files.
Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
?
The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial port.
WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of
KERMIT??
WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol?
The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or
XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type.
.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
1:57 p.m.
The batch capabilities are exactly why I am looking for an alternative
to Xmodem or Modem7. (Well, that and I have no idea if the versions I
have work at all as I haven't run them through the assembler yet).
I suppose I could find source to some of the newer Xmodem variants to
port to the Z80 (I've got more languages on this Altos then I know what
to do with!) but I'd prefer to do something quick. I'm more interested
in making the files accessible then adding a project to my already
overburdened list! :)
Erik
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Mabry
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:09 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
Certainly, Xmodem would be faster than the most generic Kermit since it
uses an 8-bit data path as opposed to the 7-bit path of Kermit. I
usually think of Kermit first when transferring files because there are
so many different implementations. Just about any operating system has
one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit
(the 48 and 49 I think).
Also, unless you have the Ymodem variant or later, I believe you have to
type in file names to the receiving end. Kermit usually can transfer
the file name as part of the transfer.
I have several programs that can use Xmodem, Xmodem-CRC, Ymodem,
Ymodem-1K on Intel MDS systems. Probably can also find some of those
for the PeeCee.
However, I just always think of Kermit first because I don't even have
to think of what operating system or what kind of computer. Kermit will
be available.
That being said, I DO agree with you that it would seem much more
"appropriate" to be using one of Ward's protocols to transfer his files.
Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
?
The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial
port.
WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of
KERMIT??
WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol?
The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or
XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type.
.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
19 Feb
19 Feb
9:45 a.m.
so many different implementations. Just about any
operating system has
one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit
(the 48 and 49 I think).
Correct, and the 48G, 48GX, 49G also have Xmodem.
I have never seen a version of Kermit for the HP71B + RS232 port (even
though it would be certainly possible to write one).
-tony
18 Feb
18 Feb
3:40 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week going through dozens
of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the
collection.
Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure out
how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8"
media.
Erik S. Klein
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM
To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune.
Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important
event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0
3021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
3:52 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard
IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda
funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can
transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs.
Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area.
Erik S. Klein wrote:
Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week
going through dozens
of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the
collection.
Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure out
how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8"
media.
Erik S. Klein
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM
To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune.
Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important
event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0
3021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
4:20 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The disks in question are IBM format SS/SD and I've got an Altos system
with dual drives that I can read them with. I've got my PC hooked up as
the terminal at the moment and all I really need is a transfer program
that I can run on the Altos to move the files through the serial cable.
I found some old MODEM7 and XMODEM (I think) software on some of the
disks but I'm not sure if those will work (yet).
If I could get a copy of Kermit on 8" I'm pretty sure it would make this
easier.
Once the disk contents are available on the PC side I'll probably make
them available on my website even though I'm fairly certain that a ton
of the stuff is duplicated at other sites.
I've got a bunch of other software on DS/DD disks that are incompatible
with any of my current gear. I'm waiting to get the machine capable of
reading those. . .
Erik S. Klein
www.vintage-computer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Mabry
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:49 AM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard
IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda
funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can
transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs.
Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area.
Erik S. Klein wrote:
Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week
going through dozens
of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the
collection.
Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure
out
how best to get the files over to a more transportable
format then 8"
media.
Erik S. Klein
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM
To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago
Tribune.
Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important
event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0
3021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
8:32 a.m.
New subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
Send me your snail-mail address and I'll make a copy of what I have for
Kermit for CP/M. You'll probably just have to modify the part that does
the UART I/O.
Erik S. Klein wrote:
The disks in question are IBM format SS/SD and
I've got an Altos system
with dual drives that I can read them with. I've got my PC hooked up as
the terminal at the moment and all I really need is a transfer program
that I can run on the Altos to move the files through the serial cable.
I found some old MODEM7 and XMODEM (I think) software on some of the
disks but I'm not sure if those will work (yet).
If I could get a copy of Kermit on 8" I'm pretty sure it would make this
easier.
Once the disk contents are available on the PC side I'll probably make
them available on my website even though I'm fairly certain that a ton
of the stuff is duplicated at other sites.
I've got a bunch of other software on DS/DD disks that are incompatible
with any of my current gear. I'm waiting to get the machine capable of
reading those. . .
Erik S. Klein
www.vintage-computer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Mabry
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:49 AM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard
IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda
funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can
transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs.
Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area.
Erik S. Klein wrote:
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week
going through dozens
of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the
collection.
Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure
out
how best to get the files over to a more
transportable format then 8"
media.
Erik S. Klein
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM
To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS
The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago
Tribune.
Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important
event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0
3021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
Bob
.
6:35 p.m.
Re:
The following link is to the story in the February
16th Chicago Tribune. Not
the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in
computer history.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021
60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology
The story places XMODEM at 1977-02-16.
I was wondering...I know that network transfers preceded XMODEM
(the first FTP RFC was 1971) ...
but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII)
file transmission via modem? (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM
mainframe to a DG Nova.)
thanks,
Stan
--
Stan Sieler
sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
19 Feb
19 Feb
6:54 a.m.
Stan Sieler asks:
but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not
ASCII)
file transmission via modem?
I assume that was a typo, and you want the date, not the data?
(I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM
mainframe to a DG Nova.)
At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so
I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days,
but I don't have any proof of it.
7:09 a.m.
(I know of
some done in 1975, from an IBM
mainframe to a DG Nova.)
At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so
I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days,
but I don't have any proof of it. 
9:11 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote:
It's not completely relevant to the discussion, but I remember my father
mentioning at one point that his favored method for moving scientific data
around unconnected IBM equipment in 1962 was to punch cards in his lab,
walk them down to the ops center and have them read into the other system.
Peace... Sridhar
(I know of
some done in 1975, from an IBM mainframe to a DG Nova.)
At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so I
rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days,
but I don't have any proof of it. 
11:30 p.m.
And thusly vance(a)neurotica.com spake:
It's not completely relevant to the discussion, but I remember my father
mentioning at one point that his favored method for moving scientific data
around unconnected IBM equipment in 1962 was to punch cards in his lab,
walk them down to the ops center and have them read into the other system.
Peace... Sridhar
OOooooh! SneakerNet! ;)
Cheers,
Bryan
12:48 p.m.
Stan Sieler asks:
> but...does anyone know the first data of a binary
(not ASCII)
> file transmission via modem?
At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that
could do this,
Some more date/a:
""the first model of the first commercial modem," a box in which a phone
handset could be placed, allowing a computer to say "beep beep" to another
over long distances. Lee was almost right. He actually had the second model
of the "magnetic/acoustic coupler," manufactured for Tymshare, Inc. by
Climet Instruments about 1966"
-- http://membres.inforoots.org/dguardiola/Lee_Felsenstein/CMP-mails.htm
John A.
20 Feb
20 Feb
6:19 a.m.
I wrote about (binary) data transfer by modem:
> At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that
could do this,
John Allain wrote:
Some more date/a:
""the first model of the first commercial modem," a box in which a phone
handset could be placed, allowing a computer to say "beep beep" to
another over long distances. Lee was almost right. He actually had the
second model of the "magnetic/acoustic coupler," manufactured for
Tymshare, Inc. by Climet Instruments about 1966"
--
http://membres.inforoots.org/dguardiola/Lee_Felsenstein/CMP-mails.htm
The Bell 103A modem was introduced in 1962. I suspect that it was the
first commercial modem.
The date that's harder to place is when the 103A was first used for
computer-to-computer data transfer, as opposed to teletype-to-teletype
or teletype-to-computer communication.
7971
days inactive
7979
days old
21 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
chriss＠kingston.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com -
dmabry＠mich.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com -
sieler＠allegro.com -
vance＠neurotica.com